Win 1895 Musket question

[awp101]

I have a line on one in 7.62x54R. According to the Leverguns article they were made in 1915-16 but the seller of this one claims it was made in 1903.

Any ideas?

[airedaleman]

Most unlikely. The 7.62X54R Muskets were made under a contract with the the Czarist government of Russia during World War I.

[Gun Smith]

The majority, but not all 7.62's, will have clip guides. So it is possible that this could be an original 7.62. Second, it is possible a 1907 gun was rebarrelled to 7.62, although unlikely. The serial number can't be any higher than #57351 if it is a 1907 production. 1915-17 would be no lower than #72083. 1915/16 is where the Russian contract (239,816 guns), and regular calibers, pushed production to over 305,000 guns for the year.
M.95's are one of my favorite Winchester models. I'm looking for a 7.62 for my collection.

[Hobie]

I have heard that some of the first guns in the contract used older receivers. Still, the Russians had some pretty strict inspectors even in the stress of war. I wouldn't assign any premium to the supposed date of mfg and frankly would use that to drive the price down.

[2ndovc]

A left over receiver is plausible. Who knows, the '95 was not the biggest seller but that's a lot of years to be sitting around.
I've also read that the Russian inspectors were real rats. I remember reading somewhere that one of the Russians inspectors working at the Remington plant met with an unfortunate "accident".

Nothing suprises me with this stuff though. This one has a Spainish Loyalist Cartouche on the stock. They sure got around!



jb

[Mike D.]

I can remember when those Russian contract 1895 muskets were offered for as little as $29.95 and sat around totally unwanted. More than a few importers had them advertized at very low prices. I also passed on them. At that time, which was in the mid-'60s, a good 1886 Winchester could be had for less than a hundred bucks, so it's all relative.

[awp101]

Thanks everyone!

I haven't seen it, I ran across it online but it's in a shop local to me. I can't tell from the pics if it has been refinished. What I can see looks nice but a good photo can do that. I may wait until after Tulsa to make a decision. With a price north of $2500 I don't think it'll go anywhere anytime soon. If it does, then it wasn't meant to be.

I do have some concerns though. All my 54R is mil-surp so that means taking it down and cleaning thoroughly after each outing. Is it anything like taking down a Win 94?

A left over receiver is plausible. Who knows, the '95 was not the biggest seller but that's a lot of years to be sitting around.
I've also read that the Russian inspectors were real rats. I remember reading somewhere that one of the Russians inspectors working at the Remington plant met with an unfortunate "accident".

Nothing suprises me with this stuff though. This one has a Spainish Loyalist Cartouche on the stock. They sure got around!



jb

Nice! And an SVT to boot! I had a "SA" marked SVT several years ago. Had a couple of minor issues and I sold it rather than fool with it. May have to replace it...

The cartouche doesn't surprise me a bit. Until this July I had a Spanish Civil War 91/30. Was brought in during the 60s and the import marking was simply a "Made in USSR" stamp.

[2ndovc]

Taking apart a '95 is an excersize in frustration!

A friend of mine did it once while taking photos along the way and still took a month to get it back together.

I only shoot handloads in mine( and the SVT). Hornady 174 gr .303 Brit. bullets and a good charge of 4895.
AS the Old Man would say " Kicks like a Moscow Mule" 10-15 rounds and I have to set her down. But I can shoot my M38 Mosin all day.


She's a pretty good shooter but n match for my other 95s.

[lozen]

I shoot mil-surp in mine. Never taken it apart.

[awp101]

10-15 rounds and I have to set her down. But I can shoot my M38 Mosin all day.

When I want to be abused at the range, I bring out the M44. I even charged the steel plates I left standing with the bayonet extended during an informal match...

lozen, don't you know that corrosive ammo will turn your weapon into something resembling a fencepost if the salts aren't neutralized within 30 seconds of firing the last round?



Actually I have no problem with firing corrosive ammo in anything, be it a bolt action or gaspipe. I just know tearing down a 94 was an exercise in frustration for me and I wondered if the 95 was as bad or worse.

[awp101]

Got a chance to look at it today.

SN 36XXX (or 39, left my glasses in the truck ) under the lever which does date to sometime in 1903, no Cryllic markings, if it was refinished a durn good job was done since the letters don't appear shallow or worn, barrel is marked 7.62mm (IIRC), and it looks like the stripper clip guide is there but not having seen one I'm kind of guessing on that part.

The store is theorizing someone ordered it that way but my guess is that it was more than likely rebarreled. What I can't figure out in either scenario is why would someone order a 54R rifle in 1903 since it probably would have been unheard of in most parts of this country or why would someone rebarrel since it wasn't until the 1980s or so that 54R started appearing in this country in any meaningful quantities?

Unless someone pulled a fast one at sometime in the rifle's past by rebarreling, putting the correct musket forend on it and passing it off as a "rare" rifle and the store didn't do their full research before buying it and asking over $2500 for it?

I'm certainly stumped...

[lozen]

lozen, don't you know that corrosive ammo will turn your weapon into something resembling a fencepost if the salts aren't neutralized within 30 seconds of firing the last round?

Yea, I clean the bore and chamber. Mines not a valuable gun. It used to be a musket, but now it's a carbine. If I ever get a musket, and I probably will, I'll take better care of it.

[2ndovc]

$2500 is really steep! Especiallly if it's of questionable origin.

I've seen a couple recently for 15-1800 and pretty decent shape.

Keep lookin'


jb

[Gun Smith]

awp101, The clip guides are shaped like inverted L's and are fastened on each side ,externally, at the rear of the receiver. They are about 1/8" thick. They load the rounds differently than is the common practice. The correct way to load a M.95 is to press the round vertically into the action foward of the retainer and roll it down onto the follower (first round) and continuing with each additional round.

[awp101]

Thanks for the confirmation that I should pass...after holding it, I just wasn't enamored with it after all.

But that's OK, I need to work on being happy with what I have and start putting the "fun fund" to use getting the VW up and ready.

[airedaleman]

Thanks for the confirmation that I should pass...after holding it, I just wasn't enamored with it after all.

But that's OK, I need to work on being happy with what I have and start putting the "fun fund" to use getting the VW up and ready.

What manner of VW needs attention?

[awp101]

What manner of VW needs attention?

71 Flat Windshield Super:


Needs brakes, the electrical redone, the interior redone, paint, minor body work (fender dents mainly), the 1600 dual port runs but could stand a rebuild, shifter and linkage need to be rebuilt/replaced new tires, new weather stripping and seals, I'd like to convert the rear windows to pop-outs and the fronts to one piece ventless units, install a short throw shift kit...

I may take the 1600 to a 1776 if there's no machine work needed and I can stomach the cost. What I'd REALLY like to do is punch it out to a 1915 but there's not a chance I can justify it even to myself, a firm believer in "There's no replacement for displacement.".