Please tell me if I'm wrong re. dealer

[Ray Newman]

Too bad we haven't heard or can't hear the dealer's versionas to what went on....

[monkey]

IMO, you got robbed, plain and simple. If the shop doesn't want to have people not paying their exorbitant markup on a gun, then don't do transfers. We've got a shop like that here in town. Their markup is downright criminal on new guns.

[Modoc ED]

Too bad we haven't heard or can't hear the dealer's versionas to what went on....

Therein lies the rub to this type of thread. We don't know what really happened. We only have 50% of the story.

Give Thunderstick a call -- http://www.tucsonshooting.com/Thunderstick/ -- and get their side of the story.

[76/444]

To all:

The shop in question is the Thunderstick Trading Post in Tucson. I was willing to let this whole thing fall under the running boards as a simple misunderstanding (me misunderstanding that a flat rate $25 FFL transfer fee really meant "unless" or "maybe if", and them misunderstanding what terms like wholesale and retail and out-of-state dealer mean) and move on but I discovered that this shop really crossed the line, called another shop that I do business with and ran me (and Centerfire System) down BY NAME. Which makes me darn angry.

Thankfully I happened to be in the other shop when I heard my name float out of the office (and how would that grab you I might ask) so I said, "Exqueeze me, but that person is ME. Shall we talk about it?" I explained my side of the story, told them about the internet add for the gun, told them that I'd called and purchased it from the out-of-state business and they agreed that it would have been a simple FFL transfer with them.

So in a nutshell I was willing to chalk it up to "live and learn" but to heck with that when they're running my name down around town. THUNDERSTICK TRADING POST IN TUCSON - I highly recommend that you avoid them!

Thanks to all who replied,
Oly

Hey Oly,.... that is just human nature. When people commit a action of BAD CHARACTER such as lying, cheating, stealing etc.,... the first thing they usually do is try and present themselves as the victims. Rather than ask people's opinions.

Greeks have a saying,... "A thief will call you a thief and a liar will call you a liar".

Most honest and mature business people will recognize such character flaws and decide guilt and innocence accordingly.

[Triggernosis]

I do not charge established customers for a transfer.

I charge $25 for a transfer to a customer I've never met before. If that person makes any purchase at the time they pick up the gun I do not charge a transfer fee.

That's the way it should be done right there. And folks like you are the kind of folks I like to do business with.

Thumbs-up for 86'er.

[Ray Newman]

Modoc Ed: Like you I have no dog in this fight, but I do find it a bit interesting.

Situation involved a new firearm, which by law must be transferred from FFL to FFL.

What we have here:

--Is a rifle that was ordered by Olyinaz from Center Fire Systems. During the transaction, he was quoted a good price.

--Center Fire shipped it to Thunderstick, using Thundertstick's on file FFL.

-- According to Olyinaz, Thunderstick told him that the transfer fee was $25.00.

This fee sounds about normal for a used firearms transaction. And as we know, transfer fees for a new firearm vary for various and sundry reasons.

And herein lies the rub. My former local CA dealer transfer policy:

--Used firearms $25.00

--New firearms were 10% of buyer’s cost or Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price if the shop/dealer could order it; if not it was $25.00.

I often heard John say: “25.00 on a used firearm. If a new firearms and I can order/get it, transfer fee is 10% of your cost or the MSRP.”

I seen this policy and heard this same policy in other shops in CA, WA, and OR.

Now the problem that I saw a few times in John’s shop. Some customers thought that since they had made the call to the wholesaler/distributor, they did all the work and since John didn’t personally make the call, they should only pay the $25.00 fee or dealer price, even though they used John’s FFL and store front address to order the rifle.

And there were a few customers who only “heard” or “remembered” that the transfer fee in John’s shop was $25.00 and didn’t remember or did not want to remember the rest of the shop policy.

As Olyinaz admitted: “My error, which I freely acknowledge now, after the fact, is that I didn't call the shop to ask them about this particular purchase in order to cut this problem off at the pass before I got jumped by it when I was short of time but, again, I DID ask the shop if they do transfers and if it was okay for me to use them in the future for some internet purchases so I don't feel as if I was completely out to lunch on this.

IMO opinion, which may not apply here, is that why should someone expect a dealer who owns a storefront operation and pays all the associated fees, insurance, state, local property and income taxes, etc., and not see any profit from a new firearm that he could order.

[Modoc ED]

Ray Newman - That's pretty much it -- especially, this part of your post:

"--New firearms were 10% of buyer’s cost or Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price if the shop/dealer could order it; if not it was $25.00."

That's what I was getting at in my original post in this thread.

Anyway, I posted the link for "Thundertstick" and guys can call them to get the full story -- if interested.

[olyinaz]

Therein lies the rub to this type of thread. We don't know what really happened. We only have 50% of the story.

Give Thunderstick a call -- http://www.tucsonshooting.com/Thunderstick/ -- and get their side of the story.

You'll NEVER know what really happened because YOU WEREN'T THERE Ed, nor were you there for any of my conversations/questions with the proprietor over the previous months so that dog don't hunt.

I've accurately represented their side of the story as they presented it to me but calling them at this juncture will "prove" ZERO and you'll have no way of knowing if they change their tune at this point to make themselves look like victims or saints. I think Ray Newman exactly states above what the Thunderstick feels is their policy (or something similar), problem is that's not what was represented to me (what a concept) and as I said, when they passed my name along to another shop here in town they crossed the line. This isn't rocket science or a Democratic Party focus group so overly complicating the situation is not required - I asked, they changed their tune, I wanted my Christmas gift so I paid more. It's not the few dollars, it's the duplicity and not standing by their word that irks me. Further more, for reasons I do not understand they passed my name along to another shop yet acted all smiley and friendly when I stopped in the shop to retrieve some consignment guns yesterday. Unfreakin' believable...

These are NOT the actions of a straight shooter or people that anyone should want to deal with or do business with, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

And skip the "don't get excited" bull. I was miffed and puzzled over the few dollars extorted from me but I'm downright EXCITED over having my name run down around town. I don't know what parts you hail from but we Southern Arizona boys don't take kindly to that and I suspect neither would you. I kept their name out of it until I discovered what they'd done and when that happened it was, as we say in my line of work, "fight's on".

Oly

[Modoc ED]

Therein lies the rub to this type of thread. We don't know what really happened. We only have 50% of the story.

Give Thunderstick a call -- http://www.tucsonshooting.com/Thunderstick/ -- and get their side of the story.

You'll NEVER know what really happened because YOU WEREN'T THERE Ed, nor were you there for any of my conversations/questions with the proprietor over the previous months so that dog don't hunt.

I've accurately represented their side of the story as they presented it to me but calling them at this juncture will "prove" ZERO (Nope, I'm going to call em and get the facts as they present them.and you'll have no way of knowing if they change their tune at this point to make themselves look like victims or saints. I think Ray Newman exactly states above what the Thunderstick feels is their policy (or something similar), problem is that's not what was represented to me (what a concept) and as I said, when they passed my name along to another shop here in town they crossed the line. This isn't rocket science or a Democratic Party focus group so overly complicating the situation is not required - I asked, they changed their tune, (so you've said) I wanted my Christmas gift so I paid more. It's not the few dollars, it's the duplicity and not standing by their word that irks me. Further more, for reasons I do not understand they passed my name along to another shop yet acted all smiley and friendly when I stopped in the shop to retrieve some consignment guns yesterday. Unfreakin' believable...

These are NOT the actions of a straight shooter or people that anyone should want to deal with or do business with, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

And skip the "don't get excited" bull. I was miffed and puzzled over the few dollars extorted (extortion would be a criminal offense. If you truly feel they extorted you, then go to the police and DA and bring extortion charges against them and go to ATF and see if you can't get their FFL pulled. On the other hand, if you can't prove extortion and you continue to say they extorted you (as you have) that lays you open to Civil Action) I'd say it's best if ya just drop the matter -- let it go -- and enjoy your new rifle. from me but I'm downright EXCITED over having my name run down around town. I don't know what parts you hail from (all ya gotta do is look under my Avatar) but we Southern Arizona boys don't take kindly to that and I suspect neither would you. I kept their name out of it until I discovered what they'd done and when that happened it was, as we say in my line of work, "fight's on".

Oly

[cowboykell]

Ray Newman ..... you are a breath of fresh air. Oly, look at your topic...even you have doubts about your actions.

[nemhed]

I'm going to approach this from a completely different direction: Oly, post a picture of your new rifle!

[Old Savage]

Gunshops don't like participating in being undercut and customers don't like paying more than the best price and the current situation makes for some fertile ground for misunderstandings.

[Ray Newman]

Modeoc Ed: your moniker range a bell and I just thought why: you're in Alturas & do know a Jim Herfie or Herfy??

Check your PM

[Triggernosis]

IMO opinion, which may not apply here, is that why should someone expect a dealer who owns a storefront operation and pays all the associated fees, insurance, state, local property and income taxes, etc., and not see any profit from a new firearm that he could order.

Charging $25 is making a profit. It doesn't cost hardly anything to do the transfer for someone and you may end up with a customer that buys ammo, etc. and even a gun if the price is reasonable.
My local guy charges me only $5 and that's just to cover any long-distance calls or faxing he may have to do. He carries reloading supplies and gets lots of his customers just by getting them in the door with the $5 fee.

BTW, does anyone know how much is costs for an FFL license? I may get my own so I don't have to fuss with the hassle at all...

[Thunder50]

I think its $300 (might be $200) for initial issued license and IIRC, $90 for renewal. Unless its changed lately.

[Leverdude]

They get $50 pretty regular around here.

[Modoc ED]

That's a good idea "olyinaz". Post a picture of your new rifle in this thread and then start a new thread with another picture of it and tell us all about it. You should know we all like pictures.

Have a good New Year. It's been a fun thread but I'm out of it now. Got other fish to fry and strings to pull .

[Hobie]

I think its $300 (might be $200) for initial issued license and IIRC, $90 for renewal. Unless its changed lately.

You must also have a business location that meets local zoning regulations.

[L_Kilkenny]

IMO opinion, which may not apply here, is that why should someone expect a dealer who owns a storefront operation and pays all the associated fees, insurance, state, local property and income taxes, etc., and not see any profit from a new firearm that he could order.

Charging $25 is making a profit. It doesn't cost hardly anything to do the transfer for someone and you may end up with a customer that buys ammo, etc. and even a gun if the price is reasonable.
My local guy charges me only $5 and that's just to cover any long-distance calls or faxing he may have to do. He carries reloading supplies and gets lots of his customers just by getting them in the door with the $5 fee.

BTW, does anyone know how much is costs for an FFL license? I may get my own so I don't have to fuss with the hassle at all...

I've seen this posted a few times in this thread and to tell the truth, it's bull. The dealer lost money. If he would of made $100 on the sale and only made $25 instead he lost $75. In the business world, even a small business, $25 is chicken feed. More times than not it's done as a non-profit service to customers. Won't cover stuff. Heck, our yellow page advertising alone is over $3000 a month.

As for Oly....don't come on and ask if you're wrong and then get bent out of shape when someone doesn't agree with you. You weren't wrong, the dealer was. But what you did is take advantage of his business. Wait till everyone is buying for good prices online and all the dealers are out of business. Then who will you get you're gun shipped to? Good things come at a price more times than not.

It's been my experience that more times than not the truth is in the middle somewhere. Don't care whether it was business or politics.

LK

[olyinaz]

Oly, look at your topic...even you have doubts about your actions.

Where we came in absolutely. And asking for a "reality check" here on top of what transpired in the ensuing days is what convinced me that I'd been wronged. It, like all things, is a process and one rarely ends up right where they started.

...The dealer lost money. If he would of made $100 on the sale and only made $25 instead he lost $75. In the business world, even a small business, $25 is chicken feed. More times than not it's done as a non-profit service to customers. Won't cover stuff. Heck, our yellow page advertising alone is over $3000 a month.

No, I'm sorry but that's bad logic and you're wrong there - he never would've made a dime on the sale since I would have used one of the dozens of other FFL transfer dealers in Tucson to do it for $25, exactly as I discussed with and expected from him. I tried to steer some business his way, as I have done in the past, and figured I'd pick up some ammo and supplies while I was in to pick up my gun. Now he's lost all of my business forever and that is where he's going to lose some money.

As for Oly....don't come on and ask if you're wrong and then get bent out of shape when someone doesn't agree with you. You weren't wrong, the dealer was. But what you did is take advantage of his business. Wait till everyone is buying for good prices online and all the dealers are out of business. Then who will you get you're gun shipped to? Good things come at a price more times than not.

It's been my experience that more times than not the truth is in the middle somewhere. Don't care whether it was business or politics.

Nothing wrong with that logic at all and it's probably correct in this case as well but let's be clear about something: I didn't get bent out of shape because someone had disagreed with me in the thread. No, what got me bent out of shape was walking into another shop here in town and hearing my name float out of the back room because the Thunderstick had called them to discuss Centerfire Systems and had used my name in the discussion as well. I make no apologies for that really chapping my hide but it's got nothing to do with this place or the fine people who chimed in on this thread.

Oly