45 Colt, 135 grain bullet

[AJMD429]

.
135 grain Lehigh Defense

https://youtu.be/oYVV3aiK454?si=M_U3M1I3tUCRejMG

Supposedly 2,400 fps or so (maybe 2,600) from a levergun....

Unsure if I would prefer that to a hardcast 300 grain at 1,100 fps though....

Their 357 Mag 105 grain load clocked over 2,200 fps though...

https://lehighdefense.com/catalog/produ ... cf-20-box/

[JimT]

My load out of the Rossi levergun - 125 gr. Gold Dot JHP 21.5 gr. H110 = 2317 fps
oops ... mine is the .357 not the .45.

135 gr. is pretty stubby for the .45.

Most likely a good short-range load. But I personally would not care to use it. The 255 gr. 454190 bullet or the Keith 260 gr. SWC would be my choice. Much better penetration and longer range performance.

[wvfarrier]

I push the 140 grain xtps to 2400fps out of my 24" Winchester 1892.

[GunnyMack]

Any of those Lehigh Defense would be awesome on game (2 or 4legged) IF they actually work as claimed.
Guess I have to cough up the money and try them out of my muzzle loader.

Remember the DRT bullets? A jacket and powdered metal core, amazing results on game.

[AJMD429]

135 gr. is pretty stubby for the .45

Yeah. Even though it is a solid copper (or maybe bronze) it still has a hollow rear like a MinieBall and is STILL nearly a low-BC round-ball from the looks of it.

If 'petaled' maybe a great short range defense load for 2-legs.

Otherwise I agree; gimme a big ol fat hardcast with high sectional density at half that velocity. Less meat damage on deer and less me-getting-eaten on grizzly bears...!

[JimT]

You cannot replace Mass and Momentum with "technology" ... no matter how "advanced" the projectile may be. And size matters. If it didn't we would see a lot more ice pick stabbings.

[Grizz]

You cannot replace Mass and Momentum with "technology" ... no matter how "advanced" the projectile may be. And size matters. If it didn't we would see a lot more ice pick stabbings.

that's concise. I always thought that Mass and Momentum IS technology :)

[JimT]

I always thought that Mass and Momentum IS technology

Of course ... but I was thinking of the articles etc. I have read about how the 9mm now is as good the bigger calibers because of "technological advancement" in "bullet construction" .... I am sure there is a better way to word it but the "how to" escapes me at this point.

[GunnyMack]

You are correct Jim, big going in and big going out with enough to get the guy behind will always trump small in &out- kinda why I prefer a 12 ga!

[Griff]

IME, there is a definite point at which bearing surface is reduced due to less bullet weight that impacts flight stability. Lighter bullets in my 45 Colt rifles have been prone to tumbling. Mind you, almost all of my shooting less than 200 grain bullets have been lead alloy, from about 10-12 Bhn to around 20. 'Sides, for TEOTWAWKI I'd rather rely on my casting bullets than an inventory of store-bought projectiles.

[JimT]

You are correct Jim, big going in and big going out with enough to get the guy behind will always trump small in &out- kinda why I prefer a 12 ga!

Figuring the area of the projectile, a 9mm (.355" diameter) has a total area of 0.412825 square inches

A 12 ga. projectile (.720" diameter) has a total area of 0.09898 square inches ... almost 5 times larger than the 9mm.

Size does matter.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I wonder if your rifling twist would be off for this light a bullet and this velocity?

I’ve been thinking about twist rates lately because I’ve been working with a Q Mini Fix that has a 1/3 inch twist. It was designed to shoot 220 gr bullets more accurately but I think it’s just great for all copper Barnes bullets at higher velocities.

[Griff]

I wonder if your rifling twist would be off for this light a bullet and this velocity?

I’ve been thinking about twist rates lately because I’ve been working with a Q Mini Fix that has a 1/3 inch twist. It was designed to shoot 220 gr bullets more accurately but I think it’s just great for all copper Barnes bullets at higher velocities.

That's what I believe the problem was. The rifle I 1st tested 185 grain WFN bullets in was a 1986 production Uberti 1873 Sporting Rifle. One of the 1st five (according to the importer) who I purchased it from, and has a 1:16" twist if I recall correctly. Back then in cowboy action, rifle targets were often placed closer to 50 yards than the 15-20 yards (& closer) prevalent today. That same bullet, fired from my SAA @ the 25 yard line was fine, accurate and quite manageable; but in the rifle with the same charge, it was a little quicker from the 24" barrel and tumbled terribly on the 50 yard targets I practiced on. I believe it was right on the cusp of being too short an ogive, as I currently shoot from the SAA (& only occasionally in the rifle), a 160 grain RFN that's just as accurate as my 200 or 230 pills. Albeit, I have reduced its' powder charge by about ½ a grain for ~700 fps from the SAA. Another possibility is that it just doesn't carry enough lube for the longer rifle bbl.

It was my 1st 45 Colt rifle, and that 185 WFN performed so poorly in it, I haven't ever bothered to see if any of the others I've gathered over the years have a different result. Back in the late 80s & early 90s, we'd often see 6" - 8" targets at those greater rifle distances so accuracy was significantly more important than it is today, with the 16" - 24" targets at much closer ranges. Since I don't shoot any faster today than I did back then, (possibly even slower), I sometimes yearn for a return to smaller more distant targets. But, since that isn't likely, I just aim for corners, or smaller parts of todays targets! I especially like the little cowboy silhouettes, I'll aim for the hat brim, or feet, or simply a spot that doesn't have any lead smears from previous shooters in it. Dumping 5-10 rifle rounds in a 30" plate @ 20 yards doesn't seem that great a challenge... in comparison to hitting a spot an inch or two in size!

[COSteve]

In .357mag leverguns, my "high power" load is a Zero 158grn JSP bullet over 18.0 grns (Max) of Lil'Gun powder. It produces higher velocities at much lower peak pressures than H110 which was my previous load. The velocities were recorded at the same range, with the same temps, same rifles, same bullet, same primer, same case and same chrono.

20" Rossi Carbine - Zero 158grn JSP bullet, Max charge of each powder: H110 - 16.7grns, 40,700 CUP peak = 1,789fps while Lil'Gun at 18.0grns, 25,800 CUP, produces a 9% higher velocity at 1,952fps

24" Rossi Rifle - Zero 158grn JSP bullet, Max charge of each powder: H110 - 16.7grns, 40,700 CUP peak = 1,822fps while Lil'Gun at 18.0grns, 25,800 CUP, produces a 10% higher velocity at 2,005fps.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Figuring the area of the projectile, a 9mm (.355" diameter) has a total area of 0.412825 square inches

A 12 ga. projectile (.720" diameter) has a total area of 0.09898 square inches ... almost 5 times larger than the 9mm.

Size does matter.

Hey buddy I don’t think your math works.

.412825 seems to be a lot bigger than .09898

[JimT]

The math was right.
There was a slight Operator Error in that the results were switched ...

.355" diameter has a total area of 0.09898 square inches
.452" diameter has a total area of 0.412825 square inches

Seems I need to hire a someone to double-check my work.

[Grizz]

The math was right.
There was a slight Operator Error in that the results were switched ...

.355" diameter has a total area of 0.09898 square inches
.452" diameter has a total area of 0.412825 square inches

Seems I need to hire a someone to double-check my work.

Um, the brass fetchers?

[JimT]

The math was right.
There was a slight Operator Error in that the results were switched ...

.355" diameter has a total area of 0.09898 square inches
.452" diameter has a total area of 0.412825 square inches

Seems I need to hire a someone to double-check my work.

Um, the brass fetchers?

EXCELLNT SUGGESTION!

[wvfarrier]

In .357mag leverguns, my "high power" load is a Zero 158grn JSP bullet over 18.0 grns (Max) of Lil'Gun powder. It produces higher velocities at much lower peak pressures than H110 which was my previous load. The velocities were recorded at the same range, with the same temps, same rifles, same bullet, same primer, same case and same chrono.

20" Rossi Carbine - Zero 158grn JSP bullet, Max charge of each powder: H110 - 16.7grns, 40,700 CUP peak = 1,789fps while Lil'Gun at 18.0grns, 25,800 CUP, produces a 9% higher velocity at 1,952fps

24" Rossi Rifle - Zero 158grn JSP bullet, Max charge of each powder: H110 - 16.7grns, 40,700 CUP peak = 1,822fps while Lil'Gun at 18.0grns, 25,800 CUP, produces a 10% higher velocity at 2,005fps.

Should you choose to experiment.....you can push those quite a bit faster. That max load is a full grain less than what buffalo bore uses for their 158 grain "revolver" load. I push the 158 XTPs to close to 2200fps with no pressure signs, from a 24" barrel. The load shoots great out of both Henry and Winchester rifles

[marlinman93]

I suspect accuracy out past 10-15 yds. with that stubby little bullet is dismal at best. I'll use a .38 Special or 9mm with that weight bullet before neutering my .45 Colt with it. No reason to push a tiny bullet that fast for self defense work.

[Walt]

If the result of shooting super high velocity, lightweight bullets like from a .220 Swift or a .264 at game animals frequently results in massive surface wounds but little penetration, then my guess is that similar results would occur shooting a large diameter, lightweight bullet. It wouldn't be surprising if a heavy overcoat on a target defeated the effectiveness of the bullet.

[JimT]

If the result of shooting super high velocity, lightweight bullets like from a .220 Swift or a .264 at game animals frequently results in massive surface wounds but little penetration, then my guess is that similar results would occur shooting a large diameter, lightweight bullet. It wouldn't be surprising if a heavy overcoat on a target defeated the effectiveness of the bullet.

Think winter ... heavy wool coat ... heavy shirt ... a lot of body fat plus muscle and bone to shoot through ...

[Scott Tschirhart]

You know, people don’t always stand up squared off to you.

Not just leather coats or heavy clothing, you might need to punch through a large upper arm.