First Guns for newbies

[AJMD429]

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I have many patients who have had an ‘instance’ (ranging from burglary to rape) or just read the news, and decide to purchase a firearm.

They often ask “what gun should I get?”

I tell them that’s like a new golfer asking “What kind of golf club should I get?” - you kind of need more than one to play effectively unless it’s just going to be putt-putt.

However I don’t want to discourage them by telling them they need a minimum of six firearms, so we discuss priorities. Most often it is a vague sense of needing to protect at home, but sometimes on the street. So a handgun makes sense, but if they are sure they won’t carry outside the home, a long gun might be best.

Of course a rimfire is ideal for less noise and recoil for learning, and cheaper practice.

Ammo is vital, and they seldom are prepared to buy the 1,000 or more rounds that will be needed to learn to shoot well.

So we talk ‘budget’, and work backwards. The problem is that often they are prepared to spend $500 or so and think that will get them set up. Well… if they get 1,000 rounds of cheap practice ammo, that’s at least $300 or so, plus at least another $300 for a low-end or used gun. Now if they add some ‘good’ ammo and run 100 or so rounds to be sure it functions, that’s another hundred or so bucks. Now add hearing protection and holsters and so on, and the thought of an ‘extra’ rimfire gun is out of the question. However if the rimfire ammo is a third the cost, practice becomes cheaper, so their rimfire may pay for itself before long if they practice much…and I tell them that if they DON’T practice a lot, the whole ‘gun’ thing is pointless.

Also if they aren’t going to be inclined to go to the range much, they can use a Mantis or IPro and save tons of ammo cost getting used to just handling the gun.

I also tend to recommend these guns as considerations:

Ultimately for personal protection- a 9mm as big as they can conceal, or a small 357 mag revolver using 38 Special loads. (very petite or frail people may need to go to 380 or 22LR)

Ultimately for home protection - an AR-15 or Mini-14 (maybe a semi auto shotgun, but I think pump shotguns are hard for new shooters to work reliably and few will put the hundreds of practice rounds through the pump gun needed to be good with it; a side charging AR might be the best, but certainly the charge handle of a mini 14 seems to be easier to work for an experienced shooters than the rear charging handle of the AR). I honestly think a lever action carbine and 357 mag is another really good home protection firearm, and would be a natural if they were opting for a 357 revolver for personal protection.

The lever action 357 can be loaded with relatively quiet 38 special rounds so for it I don’t think anyone needs to have a 22LR companion gun for practice, which is also an advantage. On the other hand, I think anyone who is a new shooter should have a handgun and rifle in 22LR that is at least somewhat similar to their centerfire equivalent. Even large 9 mm handguns make too much noise and recoil for new shooters, and AR’s are incredibly loud and intimidating for most new shooters.

(of course suppressors help deal with that, but not very many new shooters are going to want to spend $500 or more on a suppressor plus $200 on a tax stamp)

Seems like a new shooter at the minimum would need a 22LR and 9 mm handgun if only interested in personal protection, and would need a 22LR carbine and rifle if only interested in home protection. Perhaps they could get by with a 22 caliber and 357 magnum revolves, plus a lever action 357 magnum.

Any one of those combinations is going to cost WAY more than the average person assumes getting a gun” will cost.

A pair of handguns and ammunition like that would be a $1,000. A pair of rifles and ammunition probably closer to $2,000. May be going the levergun and revolver route might set them up for both handgun and rifle for $2000, but if they go the 9mm/AR route to cover personal and home protection, it’s going to easily be $3000 or more.

But there are so many people who just don’t have that kind of money to shell out, and maybe aren’t quite get motivated enough by fear (or interest in firearms) to shell out more than $300-$400.

It’s hard to know what to tell them. I think maybe the best thing is for them to get a decent, but used, 22 pistol, or rifle, depending on their personality, and a bunch of ammo. Hopefully they will shoot and find out how much fun it is (with a quiet and easy to shoot gun) and then that will motivate them to get into the centerfire cartridges. I think it is important if they do that, that they get a gun with really easy to use sights, and have someone mentor them. Probably for most people a rifle with a red dot sight would be the best because it’s pretty hard to miss with a gun set up like that.

People who start out with a handgun, usually have a much more difficult time, feeling, confident, and until they are confident in their shooting, they probably won’t enjoy it much.

[jeepnik]

Due to a recent neighborhood home invasion I have been helping a number of neighbors navigate their entry into firearms. Since I grew up shooting I never realized just how much it costs to learn and remain proficient. I have had a few be surprised at the equipment costs. Range time isn’t too bad, but ammo is, and I doubt any will take up reloading. Frankly, I suspect most will lose interest before long and slip back into old ways.

The only thing I have come up with is to liken it to insurance. You buy it hoping you’ll never need it. But if you don’t buy it and later need it it’s too late.

[JimT]

I had some friends who just had their first baby come to me for advice on a "home defense" gun. Knowing them I talked very seriously about taking a human life. Then I asked them to go home, think about it, talk about it, pray about it and get back with me. A couple days later they got with me and said that neither one felt they could take a human life. I explained how a weapon that is only used to warn people can be taken from them and used on them and that if they were not able to use it, it would be better to be without it. They had come to that conclusion themselves and the matter was dropped.

[jeepnik]

See my comment in "what ever it takes" thread.

[GunnyMack]

I've always been of the ilk to get new shooters to the range , bring 22s, 38s, 410 or 28ga and maybe a larger centerfire. Go over the manual of arms for each and a little coaching. Shoot everything. Next time bring various other guns and school them on semi vs revolver, pump vs auto vs break open, bolt vs semi ( or pump) make it as fun as possible. Give them the information so they can realize what they prefer so they can then make a decision on what they want. Personally I would steer a newbie to a 20ga semi for home and any short gun they like( if they like it , they'll shoot it more)
Jim your point about taking a life is very important BUT there is always that 'what if ' they don't think about and God forbid that what if happens and then they beat themselves up because they could have prevented it.

[AJMD429]

I had some friends who just had their first baby come to me for advice on a "home defense" gun. Knowing them I talked very seriously about taking a human life. Then I asked them to go home, think about it, talk about it, pray about it and get back with me. A couple days later they got with me and said that neither one felt they could take a human life. I explained how a weapon that is only used to warn people can be taken from them and used on them and that if they were not able to use it, it would be better to be without it. They had come to that conclusion themselves and the matter was dropped.

That was a good thing you did. They would have not only wasted money on a gun, but potentially endangered themselves, or other innocents, yet not likely been safer if attacked.

Now I will say that when at some point someone tries to harm their child, the Mamma-bear gene may kick in and their hesitation at the thought of ‘taking a human life’ might vanish…

[JimT]

Now I will say that when at some point someone tries to harm their child, the Mamma-bear gene may kick in and their hesitation at the thought of ‘taking a human life’ might vanish…

Yes. I agree.

[marlinman93]

Over many decades I've been asked this question many times from new potential gun owners, and my answer is always the same. A revolver with a 2"-4" barrel, in .38 Special or .357 Magnum. The .357 can be loaded with .38's for someone smaller who doesn't like recoil, or until they get used to their gun.
The revolver allows new gun owners to learn to shoot, and not have all sorts of safeties to get used to in a panic situation. Plus if there ever was a misfire they simply squeeze the trigger and have another cartridge under the hammer. And whether it's loading the first round, or reloading, people with less strength don't need to fight trying to work the slide to chamber a round, or wonder if there's one in the chamber.
Nothing is better for a person new to handguns than a simple revolver.

[44shooter]

I think many women choose a small gun because it is light, cute, and fits their hand. Then they find it is too small to shoot well, hard to rack, recoils too much etc. I think many men buy guns that are a bit big because they shoot well, hold lots of ammo, looks cool etc. Then they won’t carry them because they are hard to conceal, heavy, uncomfortable etc. In the house, I think any gun the person knows how to use immediately and is reliable is probably fine. On the street, I think the best answer is still evolving as we want a balance of concealment, comfort, and shootability. Experienced gun guys seem to still be looking for their own answer and many choose different guns based on attire, or where they are going.

We should take care not to dissuade or intimidate those who are first considering to arms themselves. It is a journey. The grandma with her late husband’s Blackhawk and one box of ammo from 1975 can kill you just as dead as the guy who goes to Thunder Ranch every year with his red dotted, 20 round, semiautomatic race gun, if she knows how to put the post in the notch and remembers to cock it.

I don’t like the idea of rimfire for defense. Besides the lack of power, I have seen too many malfunctions. Some that weren’t easily cleared. I have relatives that use them and I don’t say anything. They had revolvers which mitigates it somewhat and at least they have something.

[JimT]

I have a good friend who was on duty and got a call about a shooting. It was in a trailer park and as they approached they could see a guy hanging in the screen door which was open onto the porch. His back looked like a shotgun had taken him. They made entry into the mobile home and there was a young lady on the couch, holding a baby and crying. A Ruger single action was laying on the coffee table.

Once they got her calmed down and got it called it they talked with her. She said she heard something that sounded almost like a zipper and came into the living room to see this guy had cut the screen on the screen door, reached in and unlatched it. She grabbed her husband's pistol and shot him.

They asked her why she shot him 5 times and she said "Because it quit working."

It was loaded with .22 Magnum JHP and absolutely did the guy in. He was a previously convicted rapist.

There were no charges filed against the young lady.

[Ysabel Kid]

I love a happy ending to a story. Thanks Jim.

[stretch]

I had some friends who just had their first baby come to me for advice on a "home defense" gun. Knowing them I talked very seriously about taking a human life. Then I asked them to go home, think about it, talk about it, pray about it and get back with me. A couple days later they got with me and said that neither one felt they could take a human life. I explained how a weapon that is only used to warn people can be taken from them and used on them and that if they were not able to use it, it would be better to be without it. They had come to that conclusion themselves and the matter was dropped.

Lots of folks overlook that VERY IMPORTANT first consideration.

A good reminder for the discussion with a first-time gun owner.
Thanks, Jim!

-Stretch

[gamekeeper]

" because it quit working " I bet the cop didn't expect that answer.

[horsesoldier03]

My dad passed back in 07. Following his death, I ensured my mother had my S&W 19 loaded with .38 LSWCHP. We went to the river and practiced quite a bit and made sure that she was proficient. She is now 83 and I was worried about her being able to manage the pistol so I picked her up a Ruger 10/22 that was on sale and added a Red Dot and 2- 10 round mags and a 25 round mag and 100 rds of CCI Stingers. She was a little more hesitant to go shoot it, but I made her go run a couple magazines through it. She is a God Fearing Woman, but I am fairly certain if someone meant harm to her she would see fit to ask the good Lord for forgiveness!

[Scott Tschirhart]

I am very reluctant to advise anyone who I don’t have a very close relationship with regarding any aspect of a personal defense gun.

One of my siblings I can speak openly about such things. Another of my siblings I will never engage in any such discussions.

Be prudent about this. We may be called to share God’s word with people but we are not called to evangelize gun ownership.

If I want to introduce someone to guns, I don’t recommend that they buy one. I take them out and let them shoot mine under controlled conditions. Then if they express more interest I can better guage from there.

[AJMD429]

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One thing with revolvers is that there are manhy petite women who just don't have enough hand strength to fire one double-action, and the single-action use is awkward enough they need LOTS of practice. Also, one of the first things I teach a revolver owner is how to 'de-cock' a cocked revolver safely. Without good hand strength that is also difficult.

So if a person has good hand strength, a revolver is the best, because it is so basic and no 'controls' to learn other than the trigger, but for weaker-hand individuals it is a difficult situation. I think of:

A tip-up barrel semiauto - but the 32 ACP seems to be the most powerful available.
A S&W EZ - but the slide is still difficult for some. At least it is available in 9mm.
A shotgun - but semiautos are hard to chamber, pumps are counterintuitive, and so that means a double-barrel. 20 gauge usually.
A rifle - as horsesoldier03 said, a Ruger 10/22 can be a good option - the most reliable 22 LR and easy to aim. Extended charging handles can help frail to chamber a round. A jam could be lethal though, but CCI's are pretty reliable. 10 shots ought to do, or there are larger magazines that work well.
A bigger rifle or pistol-caliber-carbine - Heavier and usually awkward, but perhaps could be an option. Probably the easiest to chamber and most 'intuitive' is a Ruger Mini-14, if they aren't shocked by the muzzle blast.

[Gunstore Commando]

Seems like a new shooter at the minimum would need a 22LR and 9 mm handgun

How about a 9 mil and a .22 conversion unit for same.

Then the same trick for an AR.

[44shooter]

My aunt who isn’t old, probably in her late fifties at the time, told my dad a few years ago she couldn’t pull the trigger on her Charter Arms 38. He bought her a 380 EZ. He gave me the 38 not long before we found out he was terminally ill. It’s nice for the pocket.

It is hard to say with casual gun owners. Most aren’t into guns and don’t even think about practicing. I wonder if my mom knows if her pistol is chambered, whether the safety is on or not, if she can rack the slide quickly, etc.

My grandmother, when in her eighties, confronted a prowler in her carport with her High Standard Double Nine. He went away as ordered. Actually nine shots from a good size ergonomic revolver with no recoil doesn’t seem too bad of a choice.

My stepdad has a LCP, but he has progressive Parkinson’s. I think him being armed is a liability. He doesn’t have speed, strength, or dexterity. Plus he carries on his ankle.

All the above have a CCW except my grandmother, so they at least hit a man size target a few times.

[jeepnik]

Over many decades I've been asked this question many times from new potential gun owners, and my answer is always the same. A revolver with a 2"-4" barrel, in .38 Special or .357 Magnum. The .357 can be loaded with .38's for someone smaller who doesn't like recoil, or until they get used to their gun.

Over the years here I've made no secret that I prefer handguns in calibers that start with four. But for two years, while stationed in Europe I carried a LLama Comanche in .357 mag. I never felt under gunned and that was with the potential of having to deal with the ETA.

I too still recommend a medium frame revolver for newbies.

[AJMD429]

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Another interesting option for frail-handed people is the KelTec PMR-30 Pistol.

Screenshot_20240313-095139-390.png

Easy racking, very light weight, little recoil, and a bunch (30+1) of 22 WMR rounds.

Not a CCW gun for most (I'd do it, but then again I carried a Super Blackhawk for awhile ), but certainly a 'bedside and bathrobe' gun an elderly frail person could operate.

[buckeyeshooter]

If we are talking self defense or general plinking and learning to shoot. I am going a 22 long rifle like a single six, 38 special (used) smith and wesson 10 revolver or a pump shotgun.
In my case, I taught my wife, neice and nephew to shoot with my grandfathers Smith and Wesson 32 Long and my Smith and Wesson 18 in 22 long rifle.

[Grizz]

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Another interesting option for frail-handed people is the KelTec PMR-30 Pistol.

Screenshot_20240313-095139-390.png

Easy racking, very light weight, little recoil, and a bunch (30+1) of 22 WMR rounds.

Not a CCW gun for most (I'd do it, but then again I carried a Super Blackhawk for awhile ), but certainly a 'bedside and bathrobe' gun an elderly frail person could operate.

That's a BEAUT. Looking for a fire sale deal, . . . BUT for a newbie? I am probably going to get a 22 mag upper and call it good . . .

I started my newbies with cork guns. With firearms safety instructions and drills. With the upgrade to a bb gun when they could always treat the cork gun as modeled by the RO. When they were flawless with the bb guns they were upgraded to single-shot 22s. It wasn't long until they had their rifles in their rooms. Every day is training day. It wasn't long until they were going out in skiffs with friends bringing home the venison . . . . trained myself out of a job.

grizz

[LeverGunner]

I often get asked to recommend guns, since everyone knows I'm a gun guy (I also was a CCDW instructor). I don't have any qualms about directing folks towards a 22 LR. No, it's not the best stopping power, but neither is a 9mm or a 45 depending on the circumstances. Fact is, folks are much more likely to practice with a 22 than anything else based on cost of ammo and noise/recoil.

I always offer for folks to try my guns out, different calibers, and guns, and everyone loves the 22, most don't care for the larger guns.