Heeled bullets for the percussion revolvers

[Bill in Oregon]

This seems to have been a pretty quiet subject area until Kaido Ojamaa came along with his large-meplat bullets with heeled lower bands to allow them to be seated relatively straight before ramming home in percussion revolver cylinders. Not terribly revolutionary, but his was a well-publicized, practical and very functional answer to coming up with a conical projectile that delivers both accuracy and maximum terminal efficiency out of a cap and ball sixgun. There are a number of such bullet designs out there now, and I was looking at Youtuber "Omnivore's" Accurate Mold # 45-225L as a good candidate for loading in an Uberti Remington New Model Army clone. Omnivore also has a video on heeling regular .452 bullets by sizing the lower shank in a smaller than chamber diameter die. This started the wheels creaking in my head, and I bet I could use a .446 RCBS sizer die to "heel down" the two lower bands on a Lee 452-255 RF so that it would seat. That bullet is .639 long; the Eras Gone Kerr is .679.

Anyone wandered down this path? That Accurate mold is tempting.



https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet...bullet=45-225L

[JimT]

I posted this before but I used the heel bullet my Dad made from a .457 Lee Round Ball mold. He cut a shank in the mold so that it made a heel bullet.

IMG_4196.JPG

I use these in the 3rd Model Dragoon

[Ray]

I think I have the johnson dow and richmond from eras gone..... The richmond is a booger to load on the gun as it is nearly .39 around but the effort flattens the point nicely.

https://www.erasgonebullets.com/store

and the three factory lee .36, .45, & .46 (for r.o.a.) plus the 200 gr. r.e.a.l. which works loading cyl. off the gun.

My 1973 Lyman remmie likes these but they are out of stock right now.....

https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop/ol ... el-bullets

Some more already cast but they sure are proud of them.....

https://www.thejeffersonarsenal.com/projectiles

After spending nigh-on a $500 on conical moulds and a few hundred already cast conicals, I have decided it's hard to beat a round ball and at 13 to 15 cents each, it is hard to beat factory swaged.

[JimT]

My limited experience, the round ball is easier to get good accuracy with. And it will shoot through deer size game easily. I never had a .44 round ball stop in anything I shot with it ... and that was from a handgun.

[Bill in Oregon]

Those will work, fellas. I am looking for a bullet with maximum meplat for hunting purposes.
One of the guys over on the muzzleloader forum posted that he had cleanly killed a small buck with the 200-grain Lee REAL out of a "Sheriff's Model" 1858 Remington, taking a very careful shot at under 25 yards. Most of us applauded but one jerk read him the riot act.
Ray, your friend Hovey Smith has a Youtube on hunting with the Kaido bullets out of percussion revolvers and they seemed to "get her done" on hogs.
Whoops, just saw your post, Jim. How far were the shots on deer? Any idea of the velocity? Of course, out a Dragoon, it should be pretty respectable.

[JimT]

There was a time when men killed everything on the planet with round balls.
How quickly we lose history!

[Ray]

Wilhelm, take one pointy conical and set on the anvil of your bench vise and smack smartly and squarely with a hammer. Instant flatnose !

[Bill in Oregon]

Jim, of course you are right. But Elmer certainly upped the ante by designing that big, flat-nosed sixgun bullet.
Ray, why smack when I have some already flat?
That's the Arsenal 230, the Eras Gone Kerr and the Lee 452-255 RF.

[JimT]

Oh I am not against using conicals ... flat nose or otherwise. I just settled on a soft-cast round ball years ago and loved how it worked. And some folks don't seem know that's pretty much what we had for several hundred years.

[Bill in Oregon]

Yessir. I just cast up some .690 round balls to try in the 13-gauge flint smoothie. They are running about 480 grains apiece.

[Ray]

Everybody obsesses on meplats. Hows about a bullety looking bullet ? Good luck getting it started straight in the chamber though.

https://www.gimcrackandbunkum.com/produ ... als-sized/

[Bill in Oregon]

Ray. Wow! I have to wonder, was this before the Richmond Labs bullet, or after?

[AJMD429]

There was a time when men killed everything on the planet with round balls.
How quickly we lose history!

For sure... Just takes a couple generations.

[AJMD429]

Wilhelm, take one pointy conical and set on the anvil of your bench vise and smack smartly and squarely with a hammer. Instant flatnose !

Need a Paco Acu-rzr for the big calibers...

[Ysabel Kid]

I posted this before but I used the heel bullet my Dad made from a .457 Lee Round Ball mold. He cut a shank in the mold so that it made a heel bullet.

Not to hijack the thread, but how did your Dad do that, Jim? Did he use a .452" drill bit and bore the fill hole with it?

Bill, would using a mold built for a gas-check bullet do the trick? Something like this?

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_de ... t=45-240KG

[Ray]

Ray. Wow! I have to wonder, was this before the Richmond Labs bullet, or after?

Bill, I think you need to buy some of those lemat bullets just in case you ever go back home and angle for sturgeon. You'll need some sinkers......

[JimT]

I posted this before but I used the heel bullet my Dad made from a .457 Lee Round Ball mold. He cut a shank in the mold so that it made a heel bullet.

Not to hijack the thread, but how did your Dad do that, Jim? Did he use a .452" drill bit and bore the fill hole with it?

Yes, he used a bit. I am not sure the size. But he had it worked out for the various diameters that he needed. He did this for .38/357 as well. And he modified other molds, changing the nose shape, adding weight or taking off the gas check step in the mold. He was always experimenting with different things.

[Griff]

I used to shoot some conicals out of my .36 caliber ASM 1851. I cast them out of a combination mold I got thru Dixie Gun Works. They weighed around 90 grain of pure PB. I used the same ~15 grains of 3F I used for RBs and a Wonder Wad. I got them to take down knock down targets in CAS. As more clubs began calibrating their KDs to allow them to fall with standard .38 Special 158 grain bullets, I found that I didn't need them, a round ball seems to pack enough punch if the target is hit in the upper third, they fall with the best of them! I couldn't find it on Dixie's website, but it's nearly identical to this one from EMF: https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/-3 ... 2p1220.htm (Also available for .31 & .44 calibers).

[Ray]

Once upon a time I contacted these folks by email.....

https://www.ballmoulds.com/

And asked if they could cut me a .480" ball and drill the sprue hole with either a 29/64" or 11.5mm bit for use in my .45/.475 pseudo "achilles". Leaving the fatter sprue uncut would serve as a heel of sorts.

They emailed me back saying that they did not understand my request and asked that I send them a drawing.

Doh ! or is it duh ! that is more proper ?

[Grizz]

Yessir. I just cast up some .690 round balls to try in the 13-gauge flint smoothie. They are running about 480 grains apiece.

Coincidently 69 cal RB fits in the shot cup of a 12Ga bird load for a quick slug conversion . . .

[Bill in Oregon]

Jay, I think a gas check mold would be one way to approach the problem. Having none at hand, I will try the .446 sizer route first.

[Ray]

Hawk Bullets have been promising these for several years.....

https://www.banditbullets.com/

Who knows when or if they'll ever be available.....?

[Ysabel Kid]

I posted this before but I used the heel bullet my Dad made from a .457 Lee Round Ball mold. He cut a shank in the mold so that it made a heel bullet.

Not to hijack the thread, but how did your Dad do that, Jim? Did he use a .452" drill bit and bore the fill hole with it?

Yes, he used a bit. I am not sure the size. But he had it worked out for the various diameters that he needed. He did this for .38/357 as well. And he modified other molds, changing the nose shape, adding weight or taking off the gas check step in the mold. He was always experimenting with different things.

Very cool!