My latest acquisition

[Mike D.]

Although not a complete gun, this 24" 1/2 Octagon 1886 TD front end is a rare item by itself and will be a nice addition to my little collection. What made me determine to purchase this item was not only the scarce configuration, but the fact that it is of post-1900 manufacture with fine wood and an absolutely pristine bore. It was evidently not shot much and has no signs of black powder corrosion anywhere. 38-56 caliber guns more often than not have less than fine bores due to the use of the black powder cartridges of the day. This piece makes two 1886s of this caliber that I have acquired that have excellent bores. I can't wait to let 'er rip with some of my favorite hunting handloads. Those consist of 40 grains of IMR 4895 and Sierra 200 grain FNs sparked by CCI 200 primers. The cases are reformed WW and Starline brass. I have yet to slug the bore, but it appears to be very tight, with .375 diameter bullets having deep rifling marks when tapped into the muzzle. I'll give lead a chance, too, since I already have a good stock of 255 grain .377-.381 diameter bullets. I apoligize for the shaky pictures, but my new camera is still an unfamiliar thing with many "bugs" to shake out.

[Hobie]

Mike,

Neat! Tell us more about the ins and outs of using TD front ends on different guns.

Your "shaky" pictures are better than my best!

[KirkD]

I'm envious! That would fit my original '86 TD just perfectly! Congratulations on a nice find. Keep us posted on how she shoots.

[Blaine]

Please Ed Ju Ma Kate me on 38-56.....At first, I thought it was a typo for 38-55

[Sixgun]

Mike,
I believe that front end will fit on a couple of my takedowns. Please send it to me..........quickly---------Anyway, it looks real good with nice sharp lettering. A half rd/oct is a very rare item in an '86. You done well. I didn't/couldn't see a proof mark. I have switched barrels around before and most of the time, they work. A few 1894's had some difficulty but the '86's always lined right up.
What do you suppose happened to the back half?------Sixgun

[Griff]

Neat find Mike.

[2ndovc]

Man. That's a score!

jb

[Elkhunter1]

The half round /half octagon is a very rare configuration. I want to say that less than 1,000 total rifles had the feature, and that may be a high number. I have a nice 45-70 that dates to 1897. It is a half round with the short magazine tube and a 26" barrel, shotgun butt. Letters out as all original and accordinging to Mathis is one of less than 200. I'm proud to say i plucked it off the wall of local gun shop about two years ago for less than $1k. darn fools had no clue what they had and were too busy trying to sell AR15's to even care. It's now a prized possession and family heirloom.

[Mike D.]

I'm envious! That would fit my original '86 TD just perfectly! Congratulations on a nice find. Keep us posted on how she shoots.

I sure will, Kirk. It fits the three guns I tried it on, but VERY tight. I need to fiddle with the three adjusting screws.

[Ysabel Kid]

Cool!

[Mike D.]

Please Ed Ju Ma Kate me on 38-56.....At first, I thought it was a typo for 38-55

Blaine, the .38-56 was an original 1886 caliber, made from the beginning of production until 1911. The bullet diameter is the same as the later .38-55, at roughly .377. The case is bottlenecked and has the same rim diameter as the .45-70. In fact, several of the cartridges chambered in the Model 1886 Winchester share this same base diameter. Here are some .38-56s as they have been formed for loading.

[Mike D.]

Mike,
I believe that front end will fit on a couple of my takedowns. Please send it to me..........quickly---------Anyway, it looks real good with nice sharp lettering. A half rd/oct is a very rare item in an '86. You done well. I didn't/couldn't see a proof mark. I have switched barrels around before and most of the time, they work. A few 1894's had some difficulty but the '86's always lined right up.
What do you suppose happened to the back half?------Sixgun

The seller had no idea, or at least that's what he claimed. What happened to the rest of the gun was my first question to him.
There are no proof marks on the top flat, but plenty on the bottom. This is not all that unusual, having seen several non proof marked '86s, so it didn't sway me from going ahead and making an offer.

[Mike D.]

The half round /half octagon is a very rare configuration. I want to say that less than 1,000 total rifles had the feature, and that may be a high number. I have a nice 45-70 that dates to 1897. It is a half round with the short magazine tube and a 26" barrel, shotgun butt. Letters out as all original and accordinging to Mathis is one of less than 200. I'm proud to say i plucked it off the wall of local gun shop about two years ago for less than $1k. darn fools had no clue what they had and were too busy trying to sell AR15's to even care. It's now a prized possession and family heirloom.

I don't know how many 1/2 Oct bbls were made in .38-56 WCF, especially after 1900, but there can't be too many. According to Bill Porter something like 3100 guns total had this feature. This one has a half mag tube and there are typical marks on the bottom of the barrel from it's removal and reinstallation.

[Elkhunter1]

Here's my 86 in half round.

[rjohns94]

VERY VERY KEWL In fact, the KEWL FACTOR is pegged at max!!!!

[KirkD]

Looking at those cartridges you got there Mike, I'm thinking I need an '86 in 38-56 too. Are those bullets by Stone Fence? They sure do look it.

[1886]

Super find Mike. You seem well. Stay in touch. 1886.

[Mike D.]

Looking at those cartridges you got there Mike, I'm thinking I need an '86 in 38-56 too. Are those bullets by Stone Fence? They sure do look it.

You nailed it, Kirk. Those particular bullets are Stone Fence's .380 diameter FNs. My Sierra 200s, at .375, wouldn't shoot worth a darn in my other .38-56. The grooves on that one are .3795. Hopefully, this barrel has a tighter bore. It sure seems to, anyway.

[71fan]

So YOU'RE the one that talked him out of that. I'd been trying to get that front end too, having watched it on GB a few times. Great find - I'm glad it ended up in the "family" Hopefully you won't have to do too much fitting to make it work with your rifle(s).

As long as we're posting 1/2 octagon buttons, here is mine . I got it a few months ago...mfg 1888, 45-70...

[kimwcook]

Nice grab. I'm envious of all you guys.

[Mike D.]

So YOU'RE the one that talked him out of that. I'd been trying to get that front end too, having watched it on GB a few times. Great find - I'm glad it ended up in the "family" Hopefully you won't have to do too much fitting to make it work with your rifle(s).

As long as we're posting 1/2 octagon buttons, here is mine . I got it a few months ago...mfg 1888, 45-70...

That is a sweet '86, Chad. Wish I had been a bit smarter and bought a little more wisely.
I merely made him what I considered to be a fair offer for the piece and he surprised me by accepting.

[71fan]

Thanks Mike. I got very lucky with a proxy bid at the Amoskeag auction in March, getting that '86 for what I consider to be a steal. Sometimes we get lucky...

About the front end, consider this: I have been pricing NEW front ends - fabricated/machined with repro parts - from Hunter, Taylor, Turnbull, and Windriver. A complete new front end ranges in price from about $1,700 to over $2,500. So, considering you got an original front end, with special features to boot, I'd say you did excellent. I thought what he was asking was essentially fair, and I assume you got a bit off of that. Well done.

I need a 24" 1/2 octagon 50 Ex front-end for my "unique" lightweight 33 takedown that I've posted about a few times (see below). I was looking at your front end to re-bore into a 50 Ex. It was almost too good to be true - a great match, but in the end I didn't have the heart to wreck such a high condition original piece, AND I was unsure if the 38-56 barrel diameter would leave enough metal once rebored to 50 cal.

[KirkD]

Chad, I think you got one of the most beautiful 45-70's I've ever seen. The button mag, the half octagon, and the look of nice history. They just don't get any more beautiful than that.

I never thought about having a front end 38-56 made up for my TD '86. That might be a route for me to go.

[Mike D.]

Kirk, I believe that Mike Hunter would be the man to tackle that request. I have another front end in .33 WCF that has a full magazine and a rough bore. I can see it bored as a .40-82 and that's my plan.

Chad, I have never had any luck with Amoskeag. Everything I want goes for far above my limit.

[JDL]

Ya'll sure got some mighty handsome rifles!!!! One of these days maybe I'll stumble onto one I can afford.
JDL

[Mike D.]

Ya'll sure got some mighty handsome rifles!!!! One of these days maybe I'll stumble onto one I can afford.
JDL

They are still out there, it just takes perseverence and a whole bunch of luck to stumble upon the good deals.
I got this one 2 years ago for $700. Well used gun with a fine bore and a great shooter.

[71fan]

Chad, I think you got one of the most beautiful 45-70's I've ever seen. The button mag, the half octagon, and the look of nice history. They just don't get any more beautiful than that.

Thank you!! I thought so too...I can't believe it came my way. Now all I have to do is shoot it. It seems I have more time to buy guns than I do to actually shoot them. I have the pieces though...brass, dies, powder, bullets. Sometime in the next few years I'll actually make some loads and shoot her.

Chad, I have never had any luck with Amoskeag. Everything I want goes for far above my limit.

I have proxy bid at two of their auctions, and have won one rifle from each one. Both times I had about 10 rifles on my list. Both rifles I won went just barrely over the high estimate. The auction I won the 1886 on had a ton of 86s...maybe over 20...so I think the average selling price of the 86s at that auction was depressed a bit due to saturation. I've certainly seen some outrageously high bids/wins that make you shake your head. I consider myself very fortunate and figure my luck is drawn. I probably won't do any proxy bidding for a while.

[bee-weg]

New here, with a question from reading your posts...

On the 86 takedowns, can you switch between calibers just by switching front ends, with no other work needed?

Beautiful rifles, btw.

[Mike D.]

In my experience, the answer is yes. Some small adjustments can be needed, but most barrels swap easily between actions.

[71fan]

Welcome to the board.

The case head dimensions are the same for all cartridges chambered in the 1886, except for the .50s. So the same back end should theoretically work for any cartridge except the .50s. I don't know for sure if the same carrier would work for both a 33 and a 45-70, but I think it would be fine. I personally would have the front end fitted and checked by a gunsmith just to be on the safe side.

The .50s are different, and required hand-fitting when they were manufactured. I haven't heard any of the resttoration guys tell me they can't do a switch barrel with a 33 and a 50, but I don't know how it will be done. I'm sure they will have to modify the carrier and extractor to somehow fit both.

[Mike D.]

Glad that you mentioned the .50s, Chad. I have never had a .50 caliber '86 to try, but would sure like to. Too expensive for me at this time, though. I could've picked up a 1919 vintage .50-110 EL, but couldn't haul the $8K freight a few years back. I should've gone ahead and done something to get it, but had long ago promised myself not to extend on my hobbies. If I don't have the cash on hand, I don't buy.

.45-70 and .45-90 front ends work just fine on .33 frames. At least they do on the latest guns, anyway. My "newest" '86 is a last year of production gun with a 15993X serial number. I only own one pre-1890 gun and that is the .38-56 that I pictured yesterday. I'm opposite to most collectors, with main interest in later, nickel steel barrelled, lighweight guns. The only octagonal barrels I really like are the rapid taper pencil ones, but I'll buy any that are reasonably priced, which is a darned rarity at this juncture.