New controversy...carbine or rifle?

[awp101]

I prefer carbines myself. They are handier for me and I've never noticed an accuracy difference between a rifle and carbine in my hands. Maybe because I generally use a scope when possible.

Let the debate begin!

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I don't like barrel bands all that much ... but I don't like longer barrels either. Can I go "short rifle" please? I love the look of an 1892 in the short rifle configuration ... handy with style.

[Old Savage]

Depends on the particular rifle, I have had both work well. I can like either.

[ohwin94_61]

Chew on this one a while what is the barrel length on a carbine compared to a rifle everybody I asked has a different opinion

[rjohns94]

I love the look of a long barreled lever. Always have. I like the full length mag with them. Having said that, I have a two 16 inch, two 20 inch, one 24 inch, and one 30 inch barrel (on my sharps). The shorter barrels handle better, i like the way the longer barrels look and point.

[awp101]

Chew on this one a while what is the barrel length on a carbine compared to a rifle everybody I asked has a different opinion

My understanding is:
16" is a trapper
18-20" is a carbine
22+" is a rifle

[Griff]

Chew on this one a while what is the barrel length on a carbine compared to a rifle everybody I asked has a different opinion

Has little to do with the length of the barrel. It's the barrel bands vs none and the style of stock that most generally differentiates a carbine from a rifle in leverguns. Unless you're talking about the none traditional style of leverguns.

Rifle, 26":


Rifle, 20":


Carbine, 20":


Carbine, 16":

[Noah Zark]

Carbine or rifle?

I'm compelled to answer, "Yes."

Noah

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Thanks Griff ... I knew I liked short rifles for a reason. Now I remember why.

[O.S.O.K.]

I "tend" towards carbines. But I like rifles too. Most of my levers are carbines with bands.

Most of today's huting turnbolts are really carbine type firearms - short and handy for hunting. Most have 22" barrels are are light weight.

So, I think the majority of shooters/hunters would probably answer carbine or carbine type firearm.

[Andrew]

Carbine or rifle?

I'm compelled to answer, "Yes."

Noah

+1 to that!

And, this is not a new controversy.

[awp101]

And, this is not a new controversy.

It's new for this week...

[Andrew]

It's new for this week...

Oh, okay.

[Griff]

It's new for this week...

Oh, okay.

Only if you consider today the 1st day of the week!

[J Miller]

So Griff, based on your system what does that make this:

It does seem to be a rifle, based on the lack of barrel bands. Yet is has a carbine but stock and a short forearm.

What say you?

Oh, and where did you get your rifle bear?

Joe

[AJMD429]

I always thought of a "carbine" as a short, light rifle, you could easily fire with one hand but a rifle was heavier, and not really aimable with one hand. Of course to a 350 pound hulk, a Garand would thus be a "carbine" and to my 10 year old daughter, an M1 30 carbine would be a "rifle" - but the definition works pretty well for practical purposes. An adult can easily shoot a 16"-20" levergun without taking his/her left hand off the reins/doorknob/steering wheel/nuke or whatever, and the same for an AR-15 set up as a CAR-16" - a levergun in 24-26" would be VERY difficult to do that with (without a rest) as would a 24" HBAR AR-15.

IM[ns]HO a "carbine" can do most anything I need to do out to 150 yards, but the added "stability" (mass? inertia?) of a longer, heavier, gun helps if I try to hit an egg or golfball past that distance. It isn't "sighting radius" because I usually use a scope for anything over 100 yards.

[Griff]

JMiller,
Rifle. Lack of barrel bands. Both new Marlins and Winchesters used a inexpensive plastic or hard rubber buttplate to reduce costs and provide a "in-between", rather than definitive buttplate.

Oh yea: My son gave the bear a few years back.

Moderator: We need the "strikeout" function as used in the old, old forum: [s][/s], to strikeout text

[gundownunder]

I always believed that the carbine had barrel bands and a barrel of 20" or under and a rifle had no bands and a barrel over 20". I understand from some of the reading that I've done that in the old days when you ordered your rifles from Winchester or Marlin or some of the other makers you could order them with custom barrel lengths from about 14" on up to a yard long. Based on classic definitions I believe my Marlin cowboy 1894 357 with 20" barrel would be classed as a short rifle. I suppose if you have a carbine with a 24" barrel you would have a "long" carbine.

If all that hasn't confused you yet, ask some more questions

[Bruce Scott]

Carbine, Defitition: a short-barreled lightweight firearm originally used by cavalry.

While I agree that traditionally barrel bands maketh the levergun carbine, some just don't fit the above defintion. This 24" barrel Legacy model, for instance, would be somewhat unweildy when mounted.

[Sixgun]

Rifles all the way. They handle better, swing better, hold more ammo, longer sight radius, don't throw their shots all over when they get hot, more metal for the money, hit harder when you swing one over someones head, work better as a pry bar, and just look more business like. The only carbines I like are 1886's in any caliber, Model 71's, and 1894's in 25-35, 38-55, or 32-40.---------------------------------------Sixgun

[Griff]

Carbine, Defitition: a short-barreled lightweight firearm originally used by cavalry.[/img]

Altogether an unsatifactory definition when there is controversy to be discussed!

[Andrew]

This 24" barrel Legacy model, for instance, would be somewhat unweildy when mounted.

But, it looks so good, who cares?

To be perfectley honest, I saw my first 16" SRC Winnie the other day in a gun rack. I giggled a little. It just looked goofy in my hands and felt goofy. It would make a perfect backpack gun but I would never take it out just to shoot. I don't know, that's just me.

I wouldn't want one(barrel) less than 18"; my M44 is about right(for a carbine) at 20.25". Again, that's just me talking. Maybe my 79" arm-span has something to do with it.?

[Hobie]

I've spent my money on carbines so I must have seen the light... Seriously, the only "rifle" I have is the Browning 1895 .30 Krag and it is no longer than the '76 SRC.

[J Miller]

Rifles all the way. They handle better, swing better, hold more ammo, longer sight radius, don't throw their shots all over when they get hot, more metal for the money, hit harder when you swing one over someones head, work better as a pry bar, and just look more business like. The only carbines I like are 1886's in any caliber, Model 71's, and 1894's in 25-35, 38-55, or 32-40.---------------------------------------Sixgun

Sixgun,
You forgot one. They make a better paddle when your boat motor dies.

Joe

[Jaguarundi]

Well anyone that is truly disatisfied with the sudden revelation that the rifle they own just by barrel band definition became a carbine(or vice a versa)?If so-I CAN HELP!Just PM me,pack the gun up and I will pay shipping to my favorite place of business !

[Pathfinder09]

Any Questions?

[Noah Zark]

Any Questions?

Kinda fireplace insert is that?

Noah

[Leverdude]

I'm unprejudiced in the matter, I have rifles, short rifles, carbines & carbifles. My only requirement is the have a lever & go BANG whren theyre suposda.

[tman]

if it over 20" in a lever, might as well use a bolt-action.

[Malamute]

Well, everyone knows that a rifle is approximately twice as powerful as a carbine and hits like a thunderbolt, and if the rifle is a 32 Win Spl, and the carbine is a 30 WCF, then the rifle is approximately 4 times as powerful as the carbine, and hits like a twice stuck thunderbolt.










I (cough) use a carbine mostly.

[buckeyeshooter]

I like rifles better. The said disadvantage of barrel lenght in the woods has never happened to me. With the longer barrel you get better velocity, less recoil from heavier weight and more shots in the tube. Plus they look better

[brucew44guns]

I have an 1886 Browning octagon rifle---that I think is my best or near best rifle, period. It's still mint and shoots like a dream. But then I take out my model 71 Browning carbine, got hi and lo grades both, I fall in love all over again. The carbine is one mans ultimate firearm, the next guy would sell it for the same thing in rifle length. That's why there are blondes, brunettes, and redheads. There ain't no right or wrong in this, in my judgement..

[Old Ironsights]

Short Rifle.

Carbines don't have the sight plane and Rifles tend to be unweildy unless you want the extra weight for recoil comp.

I think my 20" Short Rifleis the optimal compromise.

[Leverdude]

Short Rifle.

Carbines don't have the sight plane and Rifles tend to be unweildy unless you want the extra weight for recoil comp.

I think my 20" Short Rifleis the optimal compromise.

Hows your 20" short rifle have a longer sight radius than a 20" carbine? Just askin.

[Old Ironsights]

Short Rifle.

Carbines don't have the sight plane and Rifles tend to be unweildy unless you want the extra weight for recoil comp.

I think my 20" Short Rifleis the optimal compromise.

Hows your 20" short rifle have a longer sight radius than a 20" carbine? Just askin.

According to the EMF Hartford site (the rollstamp I orered from NKJ) the 16" is the carbine and the 20" is a "short rifle".

I would tend to agree with that assessment. IMO A 16" handles much more differently han a 20" than a 20" does feom a 24"... thus 20" = Short Rifle, sub 20" = Carbine.

[Slick13]

Chew on this one a while what is the barrel length on a carbine compared to a rifle everybody I asked has a different opinion

In the case of leverguns, it's not barrel length that makes a gun a rifle or carbine, it's barrel bands (carbine) or the lack there of (rifle).

1866 Rifle and Carbine

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1866.shtml

1873 Rifle and Carbine

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1873.shtml

1876 Rifle and Carbine

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1876.shtml

1886 Rifle and Carbine

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1886.shtml

1892 Rifle and Carbine

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1892.shtml

1894 Rifle and Carbine

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1894.shtml

1895 Musket, Rifle and Carbine

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1895.shtml

Standard barrel lengths (whether rifle or carbine) vary from model to model, but the basic configuration never really changes. Barrel bands = carbine. No barrel bands = rifle. The only place I've seen where this gets confusing is with Marlin's current .44 Mag 1894 where you have a combination of a rifle forearm and a single barrel band. Since it has a barrel band, I'd call it a carbine.

~Michael

[Slick13]

Carbine, Defitition: a short-barreled lightweight firearm originally used by cavalry.

While I agree that traditionally barrel bands maketh the levergun carbine, some just don't fit the above defintion. This 24" barrel Legacy model, for instance, would be somewhat unweildy when mounted.

Even though the barrel is longer than what most would consider useful as a mounted gun, it's still a carbine.

~Michael

[Slick13]

So Griff, based on your system what does that make this:

It does seem to be a rifle, based on the lack of barrel bands. Yet is has a carbine but stock and a short forearm.

What say you?

Oh, and where did you get your rifle bear?

Joe

Not Griff's system, Winchester and Marlin's system. That is a short rifle.

~Michael

[OD*]

Agree with Slick, that is a short rifle with a shotgun buttstock.

[wm]

Carbine or rifle?

That's like asking a man if he likes brunnettes, redheads or blondes. Nothing rational ...... you like one just because!

Wm

[Gryphon Black]

Rifle. 24 inch barrel. It's the perfect length. I don't care what the definition is of "carbine", or whether it's a ship or a boat.
For a lever action shooter, I like between 22 and 26 inches for aesthetics of proportion, and my 24 inch marlin feels exactly right.
My ladywife's .357 has an 18 inch barrel, which I find too short for my taste, but I still call it a rifle.
If it's designed to be operated with two hands and shoots a single slug down a rifled barrel, it's a rifle to me.
And every rifle looks better with an octagon barrel, but nobody asked about that!

Rifle. 24 inch barrel.

Gryphon

[Griff]

Short Rifle.
Carbines don't have the sight plane (radius, both have the same sight "plane", radius is different and Rifles tend to be unweildy unless you want the extra weight for recoil comp.
I think my 20" Short Rifleis the optimal compromise.

Hows your 20" short rifle have a longer sight radius than a 20" carbine? Just askin.

According to the EMF Hartford site (the rollstamp I orered from NKJ) the 16" is the carbine and the 20" is a "short rifle".
I would tend to agree with that assessment. IMO A 16" handles much more differently han a 20" than a 20" does feom a 24"... thus 20" = Short Rifle, sub 20" = Carbine.

The 16" is a carbine and ommonly refered to as a "Trapper", EMF markets both 20" carbines and "Short Rifle"s; the difference being the carbine has a round bbl & two bareel bands, the "Short Rifle" has no bands around the octagon bbl.


EMG/Rossi leveractions

[OD*]

This is a 16" "short rifle" (Winchester would have called it a "Special Short Rifle" or "Shorter than standard Rifle").

[Paco]

[color=#804040]I LIKE BOTH BUT IF IT'S GOING TO BE SHORT THEN I WANT IT SHORT... LIKE 16 OR 18 INCHES... AND LONG IS 24 TO 26 INCHES... BOTH HAVE THERE PLACE.... AND I LIKE THE DIFFERENT FEEL OF BOTH... BY THE WAY THE REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A LEVERGUN RIFLE AND CARBINE IS NOT LENGTH IT IS THE FORE END.... IF IT HAS A BARREL BAND IT IS A CARBINE... IF IT IS A FORE END CAP IT IS A RIFLE... I HAVE A NUMBER OF 20 INCH BARRELED RIFLES AND TWO 24 INCH BARRELED CARBINES.... THE IDEA THAT CARBINES HAD TO BE ALWAYS SHORT CAME OUT OF THE SOUTH WEST IN THE LATE 1800s.... AND THE MANUFACTURERS MOSTLY WINCHESTER AND MARLIN PICKED IT UP AND MADE IT OFFICIAL... CARBINE SHORT, RIFLE LONG.... WHEN YOU CHANGE HISTORY FROM THE TRUTH YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT.... PACO[/color]

[awp101]

And every rifle looks better with an octagon barrel, but nobody asked about that!

I might or might not agree with that but you'll have to wait to know for sure.

Octagon vs round is next week's controversity...

[Old Ironsights]

And every rifle looks better with an octagon barrel, but nobody asked about that!

I might or might not agree with that but you'll have to wait to know for sure.

Octagon vs round is next week's controversity...

What???? There is no controversy. Half Round. I love compromises.

[NonPCnraRN]

Carbine or rifle?

That's like asking a man if he likes brunnettes, redheads or blondes. Nothing rational ...... you like one just because!

Wm

Unlike women, guns and carbines only go off when you pull the trigger, especially redheads. Ask me how I know.

[awp101]

Carbine or rifle?

That's like asking a man if he likes brunnettes, redheads or blondes. Nothing rational ...... you like one just because!

Wm

Unlike women, guns and carbines only go off when you pull the trigger, especially redheads. Ask me how I know.

OK I'll ask...how do you know?

[Poohgyrr]

So Griff, based on your system what does that make this:

Joe

I'm not Griff, but that looks like a Marlin that should be in my safe.

[Poohgyrr]

There is a certain short octagon Winchester 30-30 pictured in this thread.

That made me get this sweet 16" EMF octagon .44 Special from Nate: