JOHN LINEBAUGH

[JimT]

I received word that John Linebaugh had a heart attack today and has passed over the Great Divide. I am honored to have been counted as one of his friends. He will be missed. He will be remembered.

[CowboyTutt]

Hi Jim, I got notice I think only shortly after you by text, which is probably exceedingly rare. John's contributions to the fire arm community are hard to measure, but I would easily compare them to what Dick Casull did in terms of cartridge development. I was directed by my original mentor, Steve Z., to the works of Ross Seyfried in the heavy 45 Colt, and from that to the 454 Casull and from there? the 460 Mag. Well, I always dreamed of having a gun made by J.L. His cartridges have become much more "mainstream" now, and rightfully so, and at long last. Lastly, his penetrations tests were, for me, in my dirt poor years, really influential and had a lot of value for me personally.

We lost one of the all time greats here. Depressed.

-Tutt

[Griff]

Sad news indeed. Condolences to his family & friends.

[Oly-Olson]

Sad news indeed.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Vaya con Dios my old friend.

[Walt]

Shocked and deeply saddened to hear it. Condolences to the Linebaugh family.

[gamekeeper]

A sad loss, condolences to his family and friends.

[Bill in Oregon]

I saw this disheartening news this morning on another forum. Jim, do you know how old John was?

[JimT]

I saw this disheartening news this morning on another forum. Jim, do you know how old John was?

Not for sure. He was in his 60's I believe. He had some heart issues and had a double bypass several years ago. He was working to close things down and retire next year. I spoke with him on the phone not too long back. He had been to the doctor and they gave him a good report. But he and I agreed that none of us know for sure we are gonna be here tomorrow.

[.45colt]

On another forum I saw this Quote that applies to John Linebaugh " SOMETIMES GODS WALK AMOUNG US" .....I sure enjoyed a lot of what He wrote. I bet John and Elmer Keith are having quite a party today.......RIP John.

[Grizz]

Condolences to all the family and friends . . , †

[Tycer]

Travel well John. Godspeed. Thanks for making our world a better place. Heal well, all who mourn your passing.

[CowboyTutt]

Jim T., I had heard similarly from Jason, the owner of Applied Ballistic Engineering, that John was working on retiring as many other "old timers" in the field. The door for custom gunsmithing is quickly closing now, and far few (er) who can do it now. The "old guard" is mostly gone now or will be shortly. John is lucky in that his legacy is HUGE at least, and well deserved. I feel bad for Dusty and family.

-Tutt

[Ysabel Kid]

Off to a better place I am sure. Prayers for his family.

[samsi]

My condolences. I never met the man but feel that I knew him a bit from his writings, which nudged me away from .44's and into giving the .45 Colt a try 20-some odd years ago. Thanks John, you'll be missed.

[Walt]

I have a friend named Jim who wrote articles for Guns and Ammo for several years. He did a story on the .500 Linebaugh after it was first developed and later did a write-up on the .475. I know John appreciated the articles because they really jump-started his business. "Little man, big guns", Jim sadly said when I informed him that John had passed away. John was certainly an extraordinary man; always willing to help anyone by sharing his enormaous experience and technical expertise. He will definitely be missed.

[CowboyTutt]

Thank you for sharing that Walt. I never met the man, I only know that aside from Dick Casull, Wayne Baker and himself, John Linebaugh forever changed the single action sixgun more than any other man.

-Thank you Sir. -Andrew

[Walt]

I have always loved the story John told about his first meeting with Ross Seyfried to demonstrate the capabilities of his improved .45 Colt. Hilarious!

[Walt]

This a good enough story that it bears repeating if anyone might be unfamiliar with it.
Immediately after this visit, Ross commissioned John to build him a similar gun and when that was completed, Ross took it Africa where he killed a charging Cape Buffalo, his guide and professional hunter armed only with a camera.


When I first met Ross Seyfried in 1982, I would have to say that him being "skeptical" of my claims about my .45 Colt turning his .44 magnum into a white mouse were an "understatement". Ross welcomed me to his home but was at best, "distant and cold". The ultimate slap in my face was when he refused to shoot my test guns. The #1 gun being a converted Seville in 7 1/2" barrel length and #2 gun a 6" Abilene, both fitted with SPECIAL OVERSIZE 6 SHOT CYLINDERS. If memory serves me correctly he made a statement on this order. QUOTE: I want to see you shoot them first. I'm going to stand over behind the barn and when the parts and pieces quit falling I'll come out and see what's left of you and the gun. I've never seen a man blown up before, this will be fun. UNQUOTE.

After firing a gun full Ross realized all was well. He came over and inspected the gun and pushed the empty cases out with the ejector rod. Every case and primer was inspected with his trained eye. A look of unbelief overcame him. What is this load again he asked hoping to catch me lying. A 315 gr Keith style slug at 1550 fps was my reply. And what do you estimate the pressure at? Approximately 55,000 CUP was my reply. His look of unbelief turned to something bordering on disgust. After a chronograph session which proved my velocity claims Ross looked lost for words. Accuracy at 100 yards from sandbags were in the 3" to 4" range. Loads tested that day were 260 gr Keiths at 1750 fps, a 280 Keith at 1680 fps and the previously mentioned 315 gr Keith slug from NEI moulds going an honest 1550 fps. We shot these velocities over Ross's personal chronograph so he knew I wasn't lying or stacking the deck. After 3 hours of this he leveled with me and spoke. "Linebaugh, I thought for months you were a nut. I still do but I can't argue with what I see here. I expected poorly constructed guns, extreme high pressure signs, bulged guns and badly leaded bores and poor accuracy. Instead I see excellent accuracy, quality workmanship, full claimed velocities, clean barrels and most of all, the cases simply fall out of the chambers and pressure signs on the case and primer are non-existent. What gives here?" I've been happy to report to Ross since then that his actions have been repeated by dozens of other amazed sixgunners in the last 9 years since that warm spring morning in 1982. The .45 Colt case is just as strong as any handgun case on the market. Especially in the Federal brand. I have proof load data here from Hornadys pressure barrel that goes over 62,000 CUP. I have shot this load hundreds of times in my special 5 shot custom revolvers and with our tight chambers case life is excellent. And primer pockets remain tight till the case is discarded due to split necks. This comes from repeated crimping and case mouth belling. The Winchester case will stand the pressure fine, but will begin to get sticky in the chambers after a couple of shots. This is not a weakness in the design of the case, it simply lacks the springy nature of the excellent Federal case. The Remington case is about half a good as the Winchester case. It's amply strong for any loads that can be safely used in any Ruger revolver, but I don't use them personally.

[Scott Tschirhart]

John and I had a friendship that spanned over 20 years. I represented him in the lawsuit that Tim Sundles filed against John and Hornady.

We won a dismissal, but it cost me my first legal job. I spent a lot of time and firm resources and John really couldn’t afford to pay. I wrote it off and the Firm was not pleased.

I moved on to bigger things and we stayed in contact. I helped him out when he would receive ridiculous demand letters over the years and I learned more from him than I could ever pay for.

He was a good friend and I was always happy to hear from him when he called.

[JimT]

I remember the arguments about "weak .45 Colt cases" and how there is no way to run a 300 gr. bullet safely in the .45 Colt. I talked with firearms people who refused to look at what we were doing and would not even consider it. I had a hard time believing John when he called me and talked to me about what he was doing. Then he sent me one of his Abilene's and some ammo ...... after that I did not need convincing. Later he helped me get pressure testing done on the loads I had developed and the tests bore out the fact that you can run a 300 gr. bullet in the .45 Colt non-modified Ruger at 1100/1200 fps and still be within the safe pressure margins of the standard Ruger 6-shot Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk frame and cylinder.

Later I had him build a .475 for me and used it to take game and do long-range shooting. It was a fun gun when I was younger. Getting older I had a hard time facing the fact that I can no longer take the pounding that they do to you .. but I did face it. Life is what it is and there is no getting around it. But I have fond memories of using that gun and what it would do.

I think it's Speer Reloading Manual #14 that has a photo of me and a hog that I shot through end to end with the .475 and the Speer 400 gr. jacketed bullet. If I remember correctly I had it running around 1200 fps ... though it has been a long time and I am not completely sure I have that correct. I shot the hog as it was running away from me. There was a big dust cloud in front of it and I heard the bullet going WHACK WHACK WHACK through the trees in front. The hog hit the ground as the gun was still in recoil and never moved. I hit it just to the right of the anus and the bullet exited its mouth. Lights out!

[Walt]

Thank you, Jim and certainly also Scott. Very, very cool. It's heartwarming to know that you both had such personal relationships with John. Once in a conversation with him he thought I was giving him a hard time - questioning his knowledge about something, I told him, "No, no, no, John. Don't misunderstand me; you're my hero."

Scott, bless you for sacrificing your job for him. It was the right thing to do, in my mind as well as yours. Given an opportunity, we have to take care of one another. Bless you.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Scott, bless you for sacrificing your job for him. It was the right thing to do, in my mind as well as yours. Given an opportunity, we have to take care of one another. Bless you.

I’m afraid that I don’t deserve any praise for it. Part of the learning experience and I have made more than enough money over the years that have passed since. It didn’t really hurt me at all.

[JMick]

Thanks everyone for telling these stories. I became a fan of the .45 colt from reading John's articles.
My first .45 colt was a stainless Redhawk with a 5 1/2"barrel. A couple of Blackhawks and a Win 94AE followed.

May John R.I.P.

[piller]

He sure gave a lot to the shooting community. May he rest in peace.

[Bill in Oregon]

Yes, thanks to all who knew him personally and have shared here. Walt, I remember that story very well, and when Ross Seyfried told it in print somewhere along the line, his side of it matched John's perfectly -- including hiding at the edge of the barn.
I've never gone much beyond .44 Magnums -- had brief dalliances with a Super Redhawk in .480 and Smith X-frame in .500. Those things were unwieldy enough that to me thy represented diminishing returns. But I mentioned before that I have read and re-read his words on the .45 Colt. Wish I had had the sense to attend one of his seminars.

[Grizz]

I could wish I had access to this 45 info back in the day when I was subsistence hunting in the Tongass. I bought into the "magnum" narrative when I developed a hunting load for a SBH. I didn't get to '.45' until I bought the guide gun and 1911. For me the stink of it was that 44 carbines were designed to limit bullet weight, and bullet weight is where I found the 'results' I was looking for. I never got to a single-load for carbine and hand gun, and missed the immense knowledge base for the Colt 45... if only I had the internet on my cell phone when I was calling deer on the bear trails . . . . Oh, wait . . . . .

P.S. my 44/405 load will do precisely what Jim's hog load does, but it was a long and winding road getting there...

grizz

[Scott Tschirhart]

Over the past few years John expressed more and more that he went too far with the .500 and .475.

The .45 Colt loaded correctly will pretty much do it all.

He was not shooting the big guns he sold at full power anymore. He was staying around 900-1000 fps and using those loads to set the sights close to the middle of the elevation range.

He came to the conclusion that 13 gr of HS 6 under a 255-300 grain bullet in the .45 Colt was all that was needed.

[Walt]

He said that his sons hunted with 4 5/8" Rugers using that same load which would shoot lengthwise through a deer at 100 yards.

[Scott Tschirhart]

That load makes a S&W Mountain Gun really turn on. But it’s a handful.

[samsi]

I thought that the 255/13 HS6 load was pretty okay, then I tried the 270SAA bullet with HS6. That's turned into one of my favorites.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I thought that the 255/13 HS6 load was pretty okay, then I tried the 270SAA bullet with HS6. That's turned into one of my favorites.

Yes, I think a little more bullet helps. That one shoots great through my Ruger.

[KWK]

He came to the conclusion that 13 gr of HS 6 under a 255-300 grain bullet in the .45 Colt was all that was needed.

That would be what, something under 1100 fps?

Did he still advocate 260 gn at 900 fps for hunting deer? I wrote down his comments on that revolver load many years ago, and it still sticks in my mind. Such performance from a light rifle would be very quiet and of low recoil. I've never made up such a rifle but have been tempted to of late.

[Walt]

My chronographed loads of 13 gr of HS-6 behind a machine-cast 250 gr lead bullet out of my 5 1/2" Rugers show right at 1100 fps with around 15 fps standard deviation. Good load.

[weiler]

that load with bevel based commercial cast 250’s printed like a shotgun at 50 yards from my 5 1/2 Bisley, but would print ~2” over 8 grains 231 or deep seated over 6.7 grains 231. didnt like too much speed out of my gun

now a flat based MP45-270 hollowpoint, powder coated and deep seated over 11.5 grains HS6 has printed many sub 1” groups at 50 for me at 1060 fps.

John Linebaugh, Ross Seyfried, David Bradshaw and Jim T have published gold on the 45 Colt and I’m grateful to all of them

[CowboyTutt]

This is all so fascninating and I appreciate the first hand accounts from Jim and Scott and also the stories related by Walt. As it turns out, Ross S. was my original shooting mentor's mentor, so all of this sort of brings me full circle to where I started, with the 45 Colt +P in my first gun, my Ruger Bisley Super BH in 45 which was later slicked up by
Bob Munden. These stories are epic and I am going to bookmark them and hope others do as well so they are not lost some day. Thanks Guys!!!!!

-Tutt

[.45colt]

In the early '80's when I first fired a .45 Long Colt it was usually regulated to low power stuff. Anytime I would see a magazine with some heavier loads I'd read it and tear out the pages . staple them together and put them in a binder. tonight I dug around in My stash and found the articles. Sheriff Jim Wilson, Skeeter Skelton Brian Pierce , Dick Metcalf , Layne Simpson, Ross Seyfried ....The Highlight of My collection is from Petersons Handguns, August 1989 . Jim Taylor wrote a Great article "45 Colt The do it All" Sixgun Cartridge. Jim had pictures of His Linebaugh .45 with ivory grips engraved with His name on them . I'm glad I saved them all of these years.

[JimT]

In the early '80's when I first fired a .45 Long Colt it was usually regulated to low power stuff. Anytime I would see a magazine with some heavier loads I'd read it and tear out the pages . staple them together and put them in a binder. tonight I dug around in My stash and found the articles. Sheriff Jim Wilson, Skeeter Skelton Brian Pierce , Dick Metcalf , Layne Simpson, Ross Seyfried ....The Highlight of My collection is from Petersons Handguns, August 1989 . Jim Taylor wrote a Great article "45 Colt The do it All" Sixgun Cartridge. Jim had pictures of His Linebaugh .45 with ivory grips engraved with His name on them . I'm glad I saved them all of these years.

Thank you for the memory. I had forgotten about that. In those days I did not keep track of what I wrote and where, for some unknown reason. But I still shoot the gun once in awhile.

45linebaugh.JPG

[.45colt]

In the days before the internet us older Guys had to dig around for information . Articles like Yours were like winning the lottery Jim. Thank You!!

[Galloway]

Does anyone know why he went with Seville frames instead of Rugers initially?

[JimT]

In the days before the internet us older Guys had to dig around for information . Articles like Yours were like winning the lottery Jim. Thank You!!

I was blessed to have a Dad who experimented with guns and loads and who knew of Elmer Keith and others who pushed the boundaries. I corresponded with Mr. Keith about his .45 Colt stuff. (I still have those letters) In those days we wrote letters and most everyone I wrote corresponded. I still have letters from P.O. Ackley and Charles Askins and others. Also I had friends like John Taffin who introduced me to Hal Swiggett, John Linebaugh, Paco Kelly, Dick Casull, Wayne Baker and many others. Personally I prefer the old days ... but they are gone and shall not return. The past is another country. They do things differently there.

[.45colt]

Jim, I often wondered how Elmer learned all he did when He lived in remote places for years. I bought the Book "Letters from Keith" and that explained it. A different time for sure. When I started reloading the family thought I was nuts and would blow myself up.

[JimT]

Jim, I often wondered how Elmer learned all he did when He lived in remote places for years. I bought the Book "Letters from Keith" and that explained it. A different time for sure. When I started reloading the family thought I was nuts and would blow myself up.

My Dad taught me well. I still have all my fingers, my eyes and eyebrows, some of my hair and a small part of my hearing! We did not use hearing protection in the 1950's and 60's ... not even in the Army when on the range.

[Tycer]

Jim, I often wondered how Elmer learned all he did when He lived in remote places for years. I bought the Book "Letters from Keith" and that explained it. A different time for sure. When I started reloading the family thought I was nuts and would blow myself up.

I was asked by a Lodge Brother if Elmer was a Mason and if the 357 was thusly named. In my search I found one of his Lodge Brothers that shot with him often. Never got an answer on the 357 but he told me that at Elmer’s funeral they all fired their 45s and emptied the brass onto his casket to honor him and his love for the 45.

[Walt]

John Linebaugh initially claimed that Ruger frames were junk. I don't know whether the frames changed or John did but I do know that the introduction of the Bisley frames changed his entire perspective. He would do work on the "plowhandle" framed guns but his recommendation was always for the Bisley frames.

[CowboyTutt]

I was blessed to have a Dad who experimented with guns and loads and who knew of Elmer Keith and others who pushed the boundaries. I corresponded with Mr. Keith about his .45 Colt stuff. (I still have those letters) In those days we wrote letters and most everyone I wrote corresponded. I still have letters from P.O. Ackley and Charles Askins and others. Also I had friends like John Taffin who introduced me to Hal Swiggett, John Linebaugh, Paco Kelly, Dick Casull, Wayne Baker and many others. Personally I prefer the old days ... but they are gone and shall not return. The past is another country. They do things differently there.
[/quote]

Jim, I hope some day you will consider donating those letters to the Cody Museum. It seems they would really add to some of the exhibits there. I know most of Dick Casull's guns ended up there except for a rare few. -Tutt

[RKrodle]

I had the pleasure of spending a few days with John at a shoot he put on near my home. He was as interested in us and what we were shooting as we were in him and his revolvers. Great guy and memories that I'll always have.

[sore shoulder]

Little late but have my own Linebaugh story to share. Was visiting a friend who lived near John and knew him well. I had just bought a Ruger SRH in .480 with the 7 1/2 barrel. I really disliked that barrel length so we drove over to Johns shop to see if he would cut it down. Before he would even look at it he wanted me to shoot a .416 bolt rifle of some kind he had sitting inside the shop door, I cant remember the chambering, and also a lever action he had chambered in 500 Linebaugh (I think it was a Marlin). Apparently I passed muster after cranking out several rounds in each so he agreed to do the work. Took several hours but he did it right then, literally with a hacksaw, while we chatted and he even supplied lunch. He measured the cylinder and said he could ream the chamber to his .475, but after shooting the cut down version over his chrony we both agreed a 405gr doing 1350 from a 4 1/2" barrel was plenty and that wasn't even a full cartridge. He then gave me a box of pre production .480 ammo that Hornady had sent him. This was back when he was doing his penetration seminars where the attendees would shoot into newspaper and bone with whatever they showed up with and he gave me his handwritten log sheet from his most recent seminar. While I was up there we visited John several more times and he was very generous with his time and knowledge and treated me like we had been friends for a long time. Was hoping to visit with him again the next time I was up there. Such is life.