OT = off topic: what's your homeland defense rifle?

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:27 am

Now, I know that many here are died in the wool lever fanatics - and that's a good thing

And you'll emphatically state that your "homeland defense rifle" is a particular levergun. And that beats a lot of lesser (for the application) choices out there for sure.

However, for me, this is all about defending hearth and home from, well take your favorite scenario - roaming gangs of thugs, invading foreign nationals, zombies

, etc.

And for me, I want the absolutely best rifle for the job. Which IMHO is a "black rifle" or "assawlt rifle".

Here are a couple of mine (AK variety) that fit the bill:

The above is a Saiga .308 with 20 round FBMG (fuzzy bunny movie guns - no kidding) mags that I converted to pistol grip configuration. It shoots milsurp 7.62x51 into 2" with the iron sights at 100 yards - or that is, I am able to shoot them into 2" with the rifle

This one is an actual AK-47 Type III kit built on a Fireing LIne milled semi-auto receiver. Its my favorite AK and is a real joy to shoot. It operates so smoothly compared to the stamped varieties.

So, there are a couple of mine - now show me yours! I'd like to see some of those Garands and M1-A1's that I've heard about here.

Or show us your lever homeland defense rifle with it's high capacity bandalero if that's you're choice.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:44 am

I've never been a HUGE fan of the evil black rifles, but I have a feeling I need to buy one this year if I ever hope to have one in the future at all.

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:47 am

Well for me it is a M-4 or Ak-47, or Ak-74 or M1 Carbine , or FN-Fal or AR-15 or....

I dearly love my leverguns and hunt and shoot them plenty. But I also have a long standing love for my Self Protection guns

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:51 am

Here is mine and it aint no souless autoloader.

SMLE No4 Mk1* Savage production it will shoot my reloads into an inch or so at 100yrd if I dont screw it up.

My 94 trapper is for when they get close enough to see the whites of their eyes.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:12 pm

This may sound like I'm being critical, but... I'm an American, 1st and foremost; therefore:

For the Home:

Winchester .30-30 Trapper

For the Homeland:

M-1 Garand in .30-06

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:38 pm

Mossberg 12g pump, with #4 buckshot.

Jeff Quinn · Post by **Jeff Quinn** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:03 pm

I can make a very good case in favor of an AR-15. Read this for a more detailed explanation:
http://www.gunblast.com/Homeland_Security.htm

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:18 pm

Springfield M1A1 Scout Squad. I do not trust the AR platform. This is basically a civilianized version of the old M-14. .308 win is a heck of a lot more effective than a .223.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:47 pm

I am not into blackguns....for one reason...
If I did own one,..... it would probably put me in the poor house...
because they are a blast to shoot...
However...though reliable in bad conditions, the AKs just spray bullets...
the ones I have shot or seen where not accurate....
I would probably pick the AR-15...I like the new S&W and Remington...
But for now....its my model 94 in 44

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:50 pm

Trimmed my assortment down to six HDR's

Two in 5.56/.223
Galil

Bushmaster Carbine

Two in 7.62x39
Bugarian Arsenal SA93

Bulgarian Arsenal SLR100H

Two in .308
H&K 91

DSA SA58 Carbine

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:04 pm

Great pics guys! I love that Savage No.4 - I've got a modest SMLE collection - my favorite WWII non-US rifle. 10 rounds can be delivered accurately quite rapidly with one of those and they can be recharged quickly too.

Here's a 1950's Ishipure No.1 Mk3 that I "unwrapped" - it isn't my nicest one but it shoots my cast bullet loads more accurately than I can hold with it...

And here's a Maltby No.4 Mk 1-1944:

As to the accuracy of the AK type rifles - they vary quite a bit and I've found that most of the reports of 8"+ groups at 100 yards are shooter induced. That Saiga above will put handloads into 1.5" and factory/milsurp into 2" easily.

But, if you take the worst case scenario, which I think is really 4", 100 yard groups, that equates to 10" at 200 yards (adding a bit for sighting error) and 18" at 300 yards. That's 9" from point of aim at 300 yards. If you aim center of mass on a bad guy's chest, you are making hits at 300 yards - the effective, intended range of the weapon. So, what's the issue? If you want to make head shots, then take your Rem 700 instead. These are intended for everything from CQC (in full auto) to aimed slow fire at realsitic battlefield distance.

Here's another of my AK's (a 1971 Romanian kit built on an Armory USA receiver):

I always laugh at people denigrating the AK when it's the most successful battle rifle ever produced and fielded. You have to admit it. The History Channel did their "top ten" and ranked the AK numero uno.

I'm an American but I'm pragmatic when it comes to weapons.

Keep the posts and pics coming!

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:08 pm

Colt 6700 that I bought in mid-94 ... the last time our rights were about to be restricted. I've yet to shoot it.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:09 pm

Great pics and nice collection salvo! Looks like you're ready

Is that 4th one down a milled Bulgy?

Griff - that is a beautiful trapper! The wood looks outstanding.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:10 pm

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:Colt 6700 that I bought in mid-94 ... the last time our rights were about to be restricted. I've yet to shoot it.

Well, you might be interested in knowing that http://www.aimsurplus.com has good .223 ammo on sale right now. And I'd recommend getting some extra mags too - I like the new magpuls or the Brownell's with magpul followers.

ETA - oops, I just checked it and I guess they sold out...

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:21 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:Great pics and nice collection salvo! Looks like you're ready

Is that 4th one down a milled Bulgy?

Griff - that is a beautiful trapper! The wood looks outstanding.

Thanks O.S.O.K
Both on my AK,s are milled receivers and like you said are very accurate too. Hard to beat a good AK!

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:30 pm

My M1 Carbine...or my .44 Trapper...or my Rem 870 all if they are within a couple of hundred yards or so, any farther and i'd be looking for grapshot out of my 8 pounder.

Post by **David** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:32 pm

jdad wrote:Mossberg 12g pump, with #4 buckshot.

Ditto...
Marine finish w/ pistol grip - it was brand new and free, heck of a deal...

Secondary, Sig P225 w/ night sights

When I want to reach out and touch someone, Blaser R93 Tactical.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:37 pm

Well, I don't imagine I will have to do any supression fire, and if it comes to that there are gonna be lots of corpses donating equipment.

I have a 357 carbine that I can head shoot BGs with. And I seriously think my .22 levergun will do the same at least 3 houses away if need be. Laugh if you want but how long will a BG breath after a .22 LR in the eyeball? And my wife has my six so I'm thinking we will be OK on the first go-around, and scavenging for the second, come to that.

I hate the idea... but it's not out of the question, and I hate that even more.....

Grizz

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:01 pm

O.S.O.K. Nice SMLE's I like the Maltby. The SMLE as a no mess no fuss battle rifle is only surpassed IMO by the AK both are easy to maintain in the field and they dont seem to care how dirty they are when you pull the trigger. One of these days I will pick up an AK when I am not living in such a repressed state. I am a bigger fan of the AR platform but you could say that I am personaly biassed accuracy wise I have yet to see an Ak that will perform as well as AR espescialy when it comes to shooting at the longer ranges.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:14 pm

British No. 4 MK I .303. My rifles are not pictured as I've never had the time to pull them out for a proper photo. I am completely confident that I can get whatever other gun I want with this rifle should it be necessary.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:18 pm

Socom 16 & Marlin 94S / 45Colt. Along with Assorted Aks, ARs, pistols and revolvers.

jb

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:31 pm

My brother just found his and I am looking for mine. Savage 99C lever in .308 Winchester, it is the 20" carbine version. This one was made in the early 1960's. He paid $375.00. It came with 3 extra clips. We have both been on the look out for this model at a good price.

We both shoot lever guns and this fills the bill perfect for a homeland defense rifle. With a rifle in this caliber .308 it is good for any man or beast. And ammo will be available any where in the US at any time.

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:44 pm

How do You like the socom M1A?

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:50 pm

Springfield M1A and Alpine M11 - both in .308

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:55 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:
Rimfire McNutjob wrote:Colt 6700 that I bought in mid-94 ... the last time our rights were about to be restricted. I've yet to shoot it.
Well, you might be interested in knowing that http://www.aimsurplus.com has good .223 ammo on sale right now. And I'd recommend getting some extra mags too - I like the new magpuls or the Brownell's with magpul followers.

ETA - oops, I just checked it and I guess they sold out...

Back when I got the rifle I stocked up on Hirtenberger SS109 in the green battle packs ... lots of it. I do shoot another shorty flat-top that I got back then but not all that often. They are fun to shoot. I also got a bunch of the Thermold magazines along with some of the regular Colt's. I should grab a Beta C Mag while I can. Always wanted one of those but didn't get it before the CB1994 hit. After that, they went up to $600 or more. Not sure where they are nowadays.

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:00 pm

In support of the original idea of a Militia, I feel one should have as his "homeland defense" rifle one that is the same type as used by the Armed Forces. Mine is an AR15 variant. In the direst event, this will make both ammunition and parts supply much less of a potential problem, whether I am fighting alongside or against Government forces.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:06 pm

My Rossi .357 is my HDR. If I need more firepower than that, I will aquire it through the use of my Rossi or an improvised smg.

I had an M4gery, but I couldn't afford to feed it... I can barely afford to feed the .357s & .45-70.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:35 pm

I reckon these will do and if they don't there is 8 LEVERGUNS in the safe with these.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:43 pm

the snipers are still in use today.

finn's

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:27 pm

OT = off topic: what's your homeland defense rifle?

Will I be defending the homeland against invaders?
Or will I defending myself against the homeland?

I'm not saying, too many Google [Bot] and Yahoo [Bot] showing up on this forum. Call me paranoid if you want, I just ain't saying.

Joe

shawn_c992001 · Post by **shawn_c992001** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:33 pm

A Vulcan Arms AR in 223. Also a Rock River Arms upper with a 1 in 12" twist. Also a SA Scout/Squad in .308 with a 3-12x44 Sightron scope. And an 870 with a Speed Feed stock and 7round mag extension. Also a Ruger 44 mag carbine, the semi auto version.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:39 pm

I have a nice SKS, I suppose I should get a couple cases of ammo and a bunch of stripper clips......other than that, I'll use what I have, which is plenty, by any standard. I can't think of any kevlar that will stop a 3 or 400 grain 45-70 bullet moving 16oo fps.

Steve Collins · Post by **Steve Collins** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:39 pm

For an HDR, I go to my AK and my Glock every time. I have yet to be able to make any of my AKs choke! Accurate? I can hit man sized targets at 150 yards, and ring steel at 200. For those of you that want to claim your 1" MOA is better, think of this: do you really think you can maintain that while you're moving, your opponent is moving, AND he's shooting back at you???

I'm all for my leverguns and sixguns; I just bought a new Blackhawk .357 and ordered cool stuff for it! But when push comes to shove, my GTW (go to war) bag holds extra AK and Glock magazines.

morgan in nm · Post by **morgan in nm** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:42 pm

Nice Enfields goes out to the folks who posted pictures.

On that savage No.4, how did you get yours to shoot so well? I have one with the savage flip sight that will do a 6" @100 if I am lucky and the bore is mirror. I find that my English enfields shoot better with remington factory.(Sorry I didn't mean to steal this thread.)

For my defense rifle, I am not going to go fancy. The most comfortable and accurate rifle I own is a half-worn 94 Winchester rifle in 32ws.

The old saying still holds true; "Beware of the old sportsman for he can shoot well."

Only problem is that I aint that old.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:53 pm

"What's your homeland defense rifle?"

All of them!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:12 pm

M4gery, SAR2 (AK74 "clone" in 5.45) or Para-FAL.

For "whites of the eyes" time, the .357 Marlin.

FWIW the Soviet specs on AK accuracy called for a roughly 6" group at 100m. The average rifleman can acheive better with practice at 200-300m. And 6" at 100m is still MoCM (Minute of Center Mass).

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:26 pm

Great pics! Thanks for posting. Here's one more of mine since SKS was mentioned....

Not all that long ago, the SKS was the most popular HDR - due to the at the time, low price and cheap ammo. Well actually, the ammo was much harder to come by and was mostly Chicom IIRC.

That one's an older Norinco. I had a nice collection but sold off three of them while unemployed (thus proving to my wife that they are a good investment). Now, I have that one and a Rusky. Sold a Romanian, Albanian and Yugo 59. They all went to Kali.

I don't have an M1-A1 but I do have a M4geryish that I assembled (the method of acquisition that I recommend for AR's):

And to add something new - here's a very economical "answer" that also uses the same mags as your 9mm if that's your choice - this one uses Glock 17 & 18 mags:

That's a Kel-Tec Sub2000 G17 model 9mm carbine. A very economical way to get a companion to your pistol - they have Glock, Berretta and Smith & Wesson mag versions.

Keep em coming guys!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:41 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:

That's a Kel-Tec Sub2000 G17 model 9mm carbine. A very economical way to get a companion to your pistol - they have Glock, Berretta and Smith & Wesson mag versions.

The Trailer Park Uzi!

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:44 pm

awp101 wrote:M4gery, SAR2 (AK74 "clone" in 5.45) or Para-FAL.

For "whites of the eyes" time, the .357 Marlin.

FWIW the Soviet specs on AK accuracy called for a roughly 6" group at 100m. The average rifleman can acheive better with practice at 200-300m. And 6" at 100m is still MoCM (Minute of Center Mass).

No pics?

And yes, the Trailer Park Uzi or TPU...

Trailers are economical too and keep the rain off...

The best thing about the Sub2000 is that if you run out of ammo, you can throw it at your enemy and it'll come back to you

wm · Post by wm » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:04 pm

Winchester 94 in 30 WCF......nothing fancy or particularly inspiring about it except I have had it all my life and am familiar enough with it that I can shoot it instinctively. I feel that is important as I imagine any life saving shot I ever take with it will be a split second decision.

Wm

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:34 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:No pics?

Nope, kind of the same boat as Hobie...

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:36 pm

Steyr Scout rifle in .308. Sorry its not a lever.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:39 pm

rjohns94 wrote:Steyr Scout rifle in .308. Sorry its not a lever.

Col. Cooper would be proud of ya

Bubba w/a 45/70 · Post by **Bubba w/a 45/70** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:18 pm

For plugging the roaming hoards of bad zombies I'll pull out my Romainian FPK in 7.62x54R. I can put factory (Wolf Gold) ammo into a deer silhouette at 500 yards very accurately without a rest and standing, using just the open sites. For whatever reason though, I haven't found a decent scope option with this rifle yet....

If I need to do more "survival" type of "Homeland Security"

, then the Ruger M77 MkII in .308 will most likely get the nod. Or the Enfield No.4 Mk1 which has been slightly modded by a previous owner....

And for anyone else that will be covering my six, I have the Mini-14.

Everything depends upon what my perceived needs are when things happen.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:27 pm

what's my homeland defense rifle?

Well, mine would be whatever the "offense" will be carrying.

But my 30-30's will work too.

I'm guessing with eight rounds for each 30-30 there oughta be about 16 assault rifles with ammo lying around.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:43 pm

morgan in nm wrote:Nice Enfields goes out to the folks who posted pictures. On that savage No.4, how did you get yours to shoot so well? I have one with the savage flip sight that will do a 6" @100 if I am lucky and the bore is mirror. I find that my English enfields shoot better with remington factory.(Sorry I didn't mean to steal this thread.)

For my defense rifle, I am not going to go fancy. The most comfortable and accurate rifle I own is a half-worn 94 Winchester rifle in 32ws.

The old saying still holds true; "Beware of the old sportsman for he can shoot well."

Only problem is that I aint that old.

My No4 Mk1 S with its 2 grove barrel hates the FMJ boat tail bullets. So I use the Sierra 180grn Pro-Hunter it is a plain base bullet and has the bearing surface my barrel needs. I load with a max charge of IMR 4320 in neck sized fired (in my rifle) brass. I had to play with the load a bit but it works like a charm.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:39 pm

txpete wrote:
the snipers are still in use today.

7.62x54R: Dropping bad guys for 117 years and counting.

I think that the stated reason about having stuff that's compatible with your comrade/enemy is a good one. Having something of the M16/AR15 variety would be beneficial for a lot of reasons.

I would probably like to have one in a carbine length .308 to dispatch what comes to pass. There, that's my answer.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:57 pm

Whatever of the following pre-positioned weapons is handiest at the moment:

Springfield SAR-48 FAL
Pre-94 Armscorp FAL
M1 Garand 30-06
M1 Garand 308
Any of four 7.62 AK clones
Any of three .223 AK clones
10.5" AR SBR
Sterling Mk4 SMG
S&W 76 SMG

. . . and a mess of leverguns, of course.

Noah

rbmcmjr · Post by **rbmcmjr** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:00 am

I really expected to see more Garands...

Mine is a contemporary of that design: The FN-49 (AKA SAFN)

This one is ex-Luxembourg and chambered for .30-06.

If I had to stick with what the troops are using, ammo-wise, it would be my Savage 99E in .308 that would come into play.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:45 am

Andrew wrote:
txpete wrote:
the snipers are still in use today.
7.62x54R: Dropping bad guys for 117 years and counting.

I think that the stated reason about having stuff that's compatible with your comrade/enemy is a good one. Having something of the M16/AR15 variety would be beneficial for a lot of reasons.

I would probably like to have one in a carbine length .308 to dispatch what comes to pass. There, that's my answer.