The extraordinary 410

[GunnyMack]

Yeah its ot but so what!
This morning I decided to grab my CZ 410 sxs , load Claro and go chase pheasants.
This CZ is case hardened, 28" i/c mod chokes. It looks exactly where a pheasant head is going every time it leaps to my shoulder! This morning was no different.
Claro, myself and a couple buddies headed to the field, one guy carrying a 12 bore the other a 20. First bird up the CZ cleared its throat once and dead pheasant. A little farther on and a big rooster took to wing closest to the 20 bore. A pair of misses- a miss by the 12 ga and the bird was getting about 35yards out, going right to left. Again this little 4.75lb bird swatting little pip-squeak scatter gun leapt to my shoulder and dropped the bird DRT. All with 3" reloads.
Claro flushed another 5 or 6 birds. I let the other guys shoot, Mr 20ga was able to connect on one bird.
As usual Claro did her job to perfection as did the diminutive 410!

[yooper2]

Sounds like a great time!

I traded into a 20ga Bobwhite this fall, one of their southpaw models, and it has proven to be a great little shotgun. Elo and I really beat up on the grouse (sorry, its partridge around here) and woodcock this year and are looking forward to going after some pheasant next year.

Eric

[Nath]

Fantastic. A 410 that fits and a good shooting man or woman will put huge grins on yer chin

[GunnyMack]

I'm really wanting a 20 juxtaposed, im torn between going cheap( but quality) with a CZ Bob white or holding out for a Parker. When I got this 410 the trigger pulls were 10.5 and 11 lbs!! When I took the trigger plate off I found that when the plate was slotted the burr was left on the inside and dragging on the triggers. After some stone work I got the pulls down by half. Still a bit heavy but for a field gun its fine.

Yes Nath the 410 is a joy to carry and shoot. I know you and I ( or GK ) have discussed the fact 410s are normally over choked. I cringe each time I see one marked FULL!

[gamekeeper]

I was 13 when I got my first .410 it was extremely tightly choked but it taught me a lot, I use a .410 more than any other gauge these days and my little Spanish s X s is choked mod mod just how I like it.
Good shooting Gunny

[OldWin]

Awesome job Gunny! Sounds like a fun day. If I'd been there you'd have had something to laugh at. My shotgun skills are NO where near yours.

My day was getting up after 4hrs of sleep, snowblowing a foot of snow, and now heading back to work.

[Rockrat]

I have one the the inexpensive 410 o/u and its I/c and full!!! Wish it had choke tubes on that one barrel. Would much prefer a mod choked barrel on that one tube. Took it to the skeet range one day. Didn't think 17 was too bad.

Would love to take it out after bobwhite quail someday, but everywhere I used to hunt in OK, people are long gone and houses are around where open areas use to be. Heard fire ants really took care of the population too. Grandad use to hunt the fire out of quail. When my Mom was little, I think he said he had around 25 bird dogs

[jeepnik]

I think I’ve made it clear I like the .410 having both a pump and single shot. The .410 is ideal for quail.

But I have more shotguns in 20 ga than anything else. My Citori also seems to come to shoulder by itself. A shotgun that fits, points and feels so well is a joy.

[1894cfan]

jeepnik, what size bird shot do you use for quail? Got LOTS of them in my area. So far all I've been doing is feed them. Next door neighbor leaves water out for them. I'm in the SW side of Mohave desert. Have a Mossberg 410 with a 24" full choke barrel and an extra 18" cylinder bore barrel.

[GunnyMack]

jeepnik, what size bird shot do you use for quail? Got LOTS of them in my area. So far all I've been doing is feed them. Next door neighbor leaves water out for them. I'm in the SW side of Mohave desert. Have a Mossberg 410 with a 24" full choke barrel and an extra 18" cylinder bore barrel.

Use #9s for quail, 8s are ok too.
I've used 9s for chukar with great effect.

[jeepnik]

Quail in the high desert are small birds with precious little meat. I uses 2 3/4” shells with #9 so as to have something left to eat.

[1894cfan]

Thanks, guys. I'll give a try if/when I get hungry enough.

[1894cfan]

Quail in the high desert are small birds with precious little meat. I uses 2 3/4” shells with #9 so as to have something left to eat.

410 doesn't take 2 3/4 shells, only 2 1/2 or 3". 18" cyl. bore at spitting distance with #9 shot?

[6pt-sika]

I was at a tower shoot yesterday in WVA They ask me usually to let the other folks get what they want then talk all I want , so I did . Brought home 11 pheadant cockbirds , 24 pheasant hens and 31 red legged partridge . The partridge look like chukars to me but the host tells me these are not chukars but rather red legs , so be it FWIW I was shooting a Parker VHE 12 gauge 32” vent rib trap gun one of only 14-18 that letter as such .

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[GunnyMack]

I loaned my 28 to one of my buddies this morning, he never hunted with a SxS before so I grabbed the CZ again. Parker led the way and she did her part. Sadly the guys were in a talkative mood and more birds flew away than went in the bag.
Watching them miss close, then far I let the CZ clear it throat twice, bird was a bit far but I hit it squarely with the right barrel about 40 yards, looked like a pillow exploded, gave it the other barrel at about 50 yards and took more feathers. As it flew it finally started to climb and then fell, typical of lung shot. Not bad for 7narfs.
I'd load 6s but they just don't fall through the MEC tube well enough.

[GunnyMack]

Yup those are CHUKAR in my book!

[TraderVic]

I have a Savage Model 220, single shot, (takedown) 410 that has been in my family for many years. I'll venture to say one of the best quality 410's ever......and hammerhead to boot. A wonderful "varmint gun" around the farm.

[Bill in Oregon]

Gunny, great thread and that's some fine work you are doing with your dainty CZ.
I have an unfired Turkish O/U, 28-inch barrels, external chokes that I desperately want to shoot, but as I would have to do so in front of strangers on the local skeet field, I have been reluctant to publicly demonstrate my very poor wingshooting skills. Your thread is inspiring. One is greatly embarrassed just the first time, as the dismal performance is expected thereafter.
Six, you have a big chore on your hands attending to all those birds!

[GunnyMack]

Thanks Bill, its fun to go play with small bore stuff, be it 410 or a 22.
Your Turkish o/u is a Huglu? This one is too.
Eh don't be afraid to go shoot skeet with a 410, for most people if they see a person show up with a 410 they expect them to miss. Its the sand baggers that show up and run em every time that makes folks think the 410 is an 'expert's ' gun.

[Bill in Oregon]

Gunny, not a Huglu but a Yildiz from Academy. For some reason their stock geometry fits me like a glove and their .410s get good reviews on the Yildiz forum at Shotgun World.

https://www.academy.com/p/yildiz-legacy ... ou-shotgun

[gcs]

I know this is a 410 thread, but a 28 gauge was mentioned, what do y'all know about those? the CZ bobwhite is calling to me, I have no idea what to do with it but it's adorable and I love sxs,s

Interested in what the recoil is like with hunting loads...Thanks

[GunnyMack]

I mentioned the 28, I normally shoot one of my 28s, either a Rizzini sxs or my Red Label.
From my experience all of the CZ guns are good. 28ga recoil is nothing to worry about unless you are shooting hundreds of rounds with a hard butt in a t-shirt.
The Yildiz guns are very good!

[win40-82]

Couple months ago I bought a Winchester Model 37 410 in about 95% condition. Don't know what year it was made as they don't have serial numbers. Saving it for my great grandson, he's three so will be a while.

[6pt-sika]

I loaned my 28 to one of my buddies this morning, he never hunted with a SxS before so I grabbed the CZ again. Parker led the way and she did her part. Sadly the guys were in a talkative mood and more birds flew away than went in the bag.
Watching them miss close, then far I let the CZ clear it throat twice, bird was a bit far but I hit it squarely with the right barrel about 40 yards, looked like a pillow exploded, gave it the other barrel at about 50 yards and took more feathers. As it flew it finally started to climb and then fell, typical of lung shot. Not bad for 7narfs.
I'd load 6s but they just don't fall through the MEC tube well enough.

MEC claims if you put talcum powder in the shot bottle and shake it a bit that 6’s and 4’s will netter better . Not tried it yet I usually keep a piece of welding Rod close by to chunk down thru the drop tube . I plan on loading some 16 gauge Bismuth 6’s to take up to First Mine Run the first weekend of January as it should be ducks and pheasants again .

[6pt-sika]

Six, you have a big chore on your hands attending to all those birds!

Bill it took me almost two hours to breast all those birds with a fillet knife . Then o cd inside the rinsing process took another hour . I’ve taken on the procedure of letting them soak in salt water a couple days to draw any blood out . I change the water each day and rinse then each day . Also gives me a couple more chances to find any feathers I may have missed in haste . All those cock birds will be cooked Tuesday morning in a jambalya for Christmas lunch at the shop .

[765x53]

I loaned my 28 to one of my buddies this morning, he never hunted with a SxS before so I grabbed the CZ again. Parker led the way and she did her part. Sadly the guys were in a talkative mood and more birds flew away than went in the bag.
Watching them miss close, then far I let the CZ clear it throat twice, bird was a bit far but I hit it squarely with the right barrel about 40 yards, looked like a pillow exploded, gave it the other barrel at about 50 yards and took more feathers. As it flew it finally started to climb and then fell, typical of lung shot. Not bad for 7narfs.
I'd load 6s but they just don't fall through the MEC tube well enough.

MEC claims if you put talcum powder in the shot bottle and shake it a bit that 6’s and 4’s will netter better . Not tried it yet I usually keep a piece of welding Rod close by to chunk down thru the drop tube . I plan on loading some 16 gauge Bismuth 6’s to take up to First Mine Run the first weekend of January as it should be ducks and pheasants again .

I believe I would trust powdered mica instead. It works wonders on my powder measures.

[6pt-sika]

I loaned my 28 to one of my buddies this morning, he never hunted with a SxS before so I grabbed the CZ again. Parker led the way and she did her part. Sadly the guys were in a talkative mood and more birds flew away than went in the bag.
Watching them miss close, then far I let the CZ clear it throat twice, bird was a bit far but I hit it squarely with the right barrel about 40 yards, looked like a pillow exploded, gave it the other barrel at about 50 yards and took more feathers. As it flew it finally started to climb and then fell, typical of lung shot. Not bad for 7narfs.
I'd load 6s but they just don't fall through the MEC tube well enough.

MEC claims if you put talcum powder in the shot bottle and shake it a bit that 6’s and 4’s will netter better . Not tried it yet I usually keep a piece of welding Rod close by to chunk down thru the drop tube . I plan on loading some 16 gauge Bismuth 6’s to take up to First Mine Run the first weekend of January as it should be ducks and pheasants again .

I believe I would trust powdered mica instead. It works wonders on my powder measures.

You may be correct just passing on what they said , they also said I might add not to put more than maybe a level teaspoon in a regular size MEC bottle .

[GunnyMack]

I hadn't heard about talc in the bottle. I'm sure that powdered graphite will work as well. These MEC presses I picked up a couple years ago at an estate sale. The previous owner was a skeet shooter, these have seen a lot of use. That being said I have a bucket with a couple bags of mixed shot , 71/2,8,6,5 all mixed together and its oxidized( white oxide) so it's not the smoothest. This is only used for hunting ammo.
As for the drop tube, I keep a hardwood dowel on hand and as I raise the press I give the drop tube a few whacks and most of the time the shot will fall through. Of course when I get into a rhythm and put on some speed is when the trouble starts!

[6pt-sika]

I hadn't heard about talc in the bottle. I'm sure that powdered graphite will work as well. These MEC presses I picked up a couple years ago at an estate sale. The previous owner was a skeet shooter, these have seen a lot of use. That being said I have a bucket with a couple bags of mixed shot , 71/2,8,6,5 all mixed together and its oxidized( white oxide) so it's not the smoothest. This is only used for hunting ammo.
As for the drop tube, I keep a hardwood dowel on hand and as I raise the press I give the drop tube a few whacks and most of the time the shot will fall through. Of course when I get into a rhythm and put on some speed is when the trouble starts!

I had problems in the 20 and 28 MEC 9000’s trying to load #6’s and #4’s . Luckily I didn’t want a whole lot just a box or two of each in each gauge . I never went to the powder route , but I have a friend or two that claim it works well .

[GunnyMack]

With all the recent talk about talcum powder causing cancer is reluctant to try it in fear of giving the pheasants cancer .
I'm going to try it just to satisfy my curiosity.
Hmm I wonder if chalk would work? ( I have some black chalk ill never use for chalkline on the job)

[GunnyMack]

So I've been carrying the 410 since I started this post . Today Parker hunted. She flushed this rooster and it flew directly at one of the other club members in another field so I didn't shoot. It landed in a thick tangle of multiflora rose on the hedgerow. We waited for the member to move off and then I sent her into root it out. About 30 seconds later it cackles and flushes about 20 yards and going into "my " field.
I shouldered, swung to where I had a smidgen of lead and the trigger released the sear dropping the hammer and the bird hit the ground dead as a door nail. It was a typical low house station 6 skeet target.

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Perfect head shots take practice

[Blaine]

I didn't own a proper skeet shotty, so at 17 I learned with a Club Gun, a Win 101 410. I always got 20 or better and even ran almost 50 once.
The only 410 I have now is a NEF single shot, full choke that perforates the heck out of a milk jug at 40 yards with high-brass #4s....

[piller]

My oldest brother got a .410 single shot full choke H&R for his 13th Birthday. It shot a tight pattern, so you had to be right on target or it was a miss. If you were on target, it would take pheasant without any difficulty at all. I kind of wish I had got one of their guns and a couple of interchangeable barrels back when they were available.

[GunnyMack]

Sadly most 410s are over choked with them leaving the factory with mod, most certainly a full choke. This CZ of mine is ic/mod and its knocked birds down with ease out to 45-50 yards... even i was impressed!
Such a long column of shot can't stay in a pattern through a full choke, what does stay stays very tight. Its a benefit as well as a hindrance. Heck my High Standard Flite King skeet king with 3" #5s was deadly on ducks( before non toxic came along)

[Mike Armstrong]

Win40-82, if your Model 37 has "WINCHESTER" in bold letters stamped on the base of the receiver, it was made between 1936 and 1948; if not, it was made between 1949 and 1963. None of them has serial number, so that's about the best you can do to date them. My first gun was a .410 Model 37 I bought new in 1951,and it doesn't have that red enamel-filled brand name on it. Still have it and still take it out rabbit hunting at least once a year. In many lean times for my family (remember all those "Recessions"? "Savings and Loan Crisis"? "Stagflation", etc.?), it was my only long gun, so it has killed a bunch of meat, including two little Columbian Blacktail "meat bucks."

As OT an aside, you would be astonished at how many lever gun cartridges that are NOT .410s that you can stick in a strong .410 like the Winchester Model 37 "Steelbilt" and turn it into a lethal weapon when you DON'T have .410 shells but DO need to defend yourself. Not advisable except in extreme need, but extreme need isn't so far away as we wish. (I've spent a lot of time in deeply rural Mexico where "invention is the mother of security" in a chronically ammo-poor society....).

Somebody mentioned a Savage Model 220, which I have always thought was the top of the single shot shotgun line, and made a nice little rifle as the Model 219 too. Many years ago I found one in a gunshop in rural New Hampshire and snapped it up. A week later in rural Maine, I found a "barrel of barrels" in the corner of a gunsmith's shop and among them was a 219 .22 Hornet barrel, nice on the outside with a bore that looked like had been swabbed with cat pee and set aside. A few years and paychecks later, I had a 'smith in Grant's Pass OR reline it to new. Still got that one, too. Fun combo; wish they' still made 'em!

[jeepnik]

Quail in the high desert are small birds with precious little meat. I uses 2 3/4” shells with #9 so as to have something left to eat.

410 doesn't take 2 3/4 shells, only 2 1/2 or 3". 18" cyl. bore at spitting distance with #9 shot?

My bad I mixed .410 and 20 ga. I use 2 3/4" #9 in 20 ga.

[Tycer]

I have a 410 I’ve never shot.
I reload 28, 20 &12. What works best for beginners equipment? I have MEC for the others.
Hulls, wads, powder ….

[1894cfan]

Tycer, that safe queen ought to be taken out and shot!

[GunnyMack]

MEC is about the only game in town for loading 410. I converted my MEC 700 from 12 to 410. This is dedicated for 3". B.C.( before covid ) I picked up MEC grabbers in 410,28,20&12 among other stuff at an estate sale. The grabber 410 only does 2.5".
LEE doesn't make the load-all in 410 so you can't even start 'cheap' .
Lilgun,296 are best powders I've found. Any 3 petal wad works for both length hull.

[Ray]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYPYIeDNkNU

[4t5]

That's a neat little tool !
Is a wad always used over shot on shotgun shells ?

[1894cfan]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYPYIeDNkNU

Are they still in business?

[6pt-sika]

MEC is about the only game in town for loading 410. I converted my MEC 700 from 12 to 410. This is dedicated for 3". B.C.( before covid ) I picked up MEC grabbers in 410,28,20&12 among other stuff at an estate sale. The grabber 410 only does 2.5".
LEE doesn't make the load-all in 410 so you can't even start 'cheap' .
Lilgun,296 are best powders I've found. Any 3 petal wad works for both length hull.

If you wanna speed up the process I have a 410 JR , a 410 Grabber and a 410 9000 , they'll most likely all hit the market in the semi near future . Ooops sorry I just saw you already have a Grabber 410 .

I've never loaded 410's with anything other then 296 . I was told by a Hodgdon guy that will remain nameless that 296 and H-110 are the exact same thing just a different ;label .

[Ray]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYPYIeDNkNU

Are they still in business?

https://www.thexringusa.com/

[gamekeeper]

I bought that XRing survival reloading kit a while ago, it's well made and does what it says on the box.

[1894cfan]

Thanks, Ray. Got one ordered.

[GunnyMack]

I saw Gforce arms now have a 410 leveraction on the market- less than 700 bucks! I might get one for a vermin/ house gun.

[Tycer]

MEC is about the only game in town for loading 410. I converted my MEC 700 from 12 to 410. This is dedicated for 3". B.C.( before covid ) I picked up MEC grabbers in 410,28,20&12 among other stuff at an estate sale. The grabber 410 only does 2.5".
LEE doesn't make the load-all in 410 so you can't even start 'cheap' .
Lilgun,296 are best powders I've found. Any 3 petal wad works for both length hull.

If you wanna speed up the process I have a 410 JR , a 410 Grabber and a 410 9000 , they'll most likely all hit the market in the semi near future . Ooops sorry I just saw you already have a Grabber 410 .

I've never loaded 410's with anything other then 296 . I was told by a Hodgdon guy that will remain nameless that 296 and H-110 are the exact same thing just a different ;label .

Let me know if you decide to part with the jr. please.

[765x53]

This little accessory makes switching between 2 1/2 inch and 3 inch shells a snap on your MEC. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-S ... o/1309140/

[Scott Tschirhart]

Gunny, not a Huglu but a Yildiz from Academy. For some reason their stock geometry fits me like a glove and their .410s get good reviews on the Yildiz forum at Shotgun World.

https://www.academy.com/p/yildiz-legacy ... ou-shotgun

That actually looks like a lot of fun.