Springfield Firearms Supply?

[marlinman93]

This outfit shows they have my favorite rifle powder (H4198) in stock at good prices, and say they cover the hazmat fee. Almost too good to be true, so I'm hoping for some input before I send them any funds. Their contact info shows an address in Basalt, Co. but when I did a search for tenants at the address their name doesn't come up on the building?
My gut tells me it's a scam, but if somebody knows this outfit I hope to get some feedback.

[GunnyMack]

Never heard of them but a few months ago I found a place online that said they had all kinds of powder in stock. They didn't take orders online, had to call. I called and a guy with a very thick middle eastern accent said they didn't take credit cards, only PayPal. At this point every red flag was waving from hurricane force winds!
Good luck with this company & keep us posted on the experience.

[Rockrat]

Maybe someone from the Western Slope, near Basalt can stop by and see if they might be there. I would be cautious

[Jeff H]

These sites re popping up everywhere. Some actually look almost somewhat legit. Red flags are "reasonable pricing," "in-stock" on something NO ONE else has, they don't take credit cards,...

There are numerous sites you can use to check the site out. I use this one fairly frequently, but run it through a couple, just in case:

https://www.islegitsite.com/

Best to stick with people you know. How could some off the wall, new business, run by a virtual "nobody" in our world suddenly have access to things the established dealers don't?

Don't fall for it.

[Bronco]

I use Pay Pal, they have a buyer -seller protection plan that has worked great for me. Do not send funds like to family and friend method to them. No protection there. Only do that if you know the person. I was dealing with a business and actually played around with them. Eventually only a little time was lost but funds were returned by Pay Pal

[Bill in Oregon]

Vall, good for you for doing due diligence, as reloading supply scams have blossomed over the past couple of years.

[marlinman93]

I went to their "contact info" and got the street address. Then Goggled "tenants at this address" and got a list of tenants in the building, but they weren't on the list. And the building in street view appears too small to have all the tenants it has, and still have room for a large sporting goods dealer who carries all the guns and reloading supplies they list. And even if it was simply their offices, they aren't listed. So appears this is likely a scam, and I wont pursue it further.
I'm down to 2 lbs. of H4198 and really thought I had much more still. I did find I have a 8 lb. keg of 4759, plus two one lb. containers. So I may end up working up some loads using 4759 if I can't find IMR or H 4198. I like 4759, but haven't used it on larger capacity BP cases before. Have a huge supply of H335, H380, 4831, BLC-2 etc., but haven't used any of those for old cartridges. I might take some of the powder I rarely use out to our gun show the end of the month and see if I can do a trade deal with a couple people who sell powder if they have 4198.

[marlinman93]

Called Hodgdon powder yesterday and spoke with a rep. He told me they're constantly taking legal action against fraudulent outfits using their name, and in some cases trying to pass themselves off as the Hodgdon Company itself! The FBI is working with them, so if they find this going on they do whatever they can to shut them down. But he also told me these companies often just pop back up with a new web site, and the same images and data from the last one.
On another note the rep told me they haven't seen any H4198 in a year, and have no idea when they'll see more? It sounds to me like they're not the ones making it for themselves if they're so out of touch with when or if they'll have any? I now have to either pay through the nose for the highly inflated price that those who have some have listed, or hope I find some locally at our gun show from a couple guys who buy estates and sell there.
I've got some other powders, but nothing really close to H4198, or IMR4198. I see Reloader 7 and 5744 are closer, but never used either, and those appear to be tough to locate too. I have 8 lbs. of 4759 stashed, so might run it through my ballistic program to see if it's a viable option or not? Otherwise I may end up loading my old BP cases with real BP since I've got 20 lbs. of that I could use.

[GunnyMack]

Sucks THEY don't know when they will get THEIR powder...

About 8 years ago I kept getting phone calls from Social Security, I ignored the calls until one day they had called about 6 times so I finally answered. Some guy said there was a problem with my SS. I stayed on the phone while I googled the number on a reverse look up, found the address and hung up. Then I googled the SS office in Texas where the call originated and spoke with a woman there, told her about what I was told and I explained that I got the location of the caller, she asked me to hold and I could hear her telling someone to call the police and she read off the address. As we chatted she said the police just went by- this nitwit claiming to be SS was 3 blocks away!
That made my day!

[marlinman93]

Sucks THEY don't know when they will get THEIR powder...

About 8 years ago I kept getting phone calls from Social Security, I ignored the calls until one day they had called about 6 times so I finally answered. Some guy said there was a problem with my SS. I stayed on the phone while I googled the number on a reverse look up, found the address and hung up. Then I googled the SS office in Texas where the call originated and spoke with a woman there, told her about what I was told and I explained that I got the location of the caller, she asked me to hold and I could hear her telling someone to call the police and she read off the address. As we chatted she said the police just went by- this nitwit claiming to be SS was 3 blocks away!
That made my day!

Good one Gunny! I hope he got some jail time for his little scam!

What is interesting is that Hodgdon also sells IMR4198, and I'm told by them that the two powders are very much alike. They actually show IMR4198 on their web site, and numerous places list IMR4198 in stock. So it might be another alternative. I'm wondering if this is a planned obsolescence by Hodgdon to eliminate one powder that's almost identical to the other?
Once I check our local gun show for price and availability of either powder, I'll decide who to buy IMR4198 in an 8 lb. keg from.

[GunnyMack]

I can't say I've ever used either but isn't the H varity a ball power, I know the IMR is a stick...?
Yes I've always knew they were 'the same ', just like 296 &H110, at least slight variations at max loads.
I wonder what is easier to make, ball or stick? Ya'd think Hodgon would want to sell their powder since buying IMR.

Yup I was imaging some computer hacker sitting at his computer with a 3 day beard, crumbs down his front and dozens of empty red bull cans when the local PD burst through the door and took him down (roughly I hope) and he wet himself!

[earlmck]

I've used both the IMR and the Hodgdon versions in the past. Couldn't tell a dime's worth of difference between them. Have been using RL7 instead for a few years since I got a "good deal" on a couple of kegs.

[marlinman93]

I know H4198 is a stick powder, but extremely small diameter sticks, and very short too, so it meters well. I have been told IMR4198 used to be longer sticks, but they changed to shorter stick to also help with metering, and not cutting sticks as you measure it.
I've not used IMR4198 since it was reworked to shorter sticks, so can't say more about it. I love 4198 because loads using it have very low chamber pressures, and in my old BP era guns and cartridges it's often lower pressures than equal velocity BP loads. Most of my loads are in the 12,000-13,000 psi range at around 1300-1400 fps velocity. But what's just as important is the way it ramps up to pressure. 4198 has a nice gradual rise on my ballistic program, where some smokeless powders have a similar chamber pressure, but spike up to it like a rocket launching, which I don't care for with old steel.

[marlinman93]

We hit the OAC collector gun show Sunday here with my son in-law to find him the rest of his needs to start him out reloading ammo. I already gave him my old Rock Chucker press, Hornady scale, and Midway dry tumbler. So he still needed a powder measure, hand priming tool, powder, primers, and bullets for his .45ACP and 9mm.
I also hoped to find some 4198 of either type, but no luck. I have tables there, so looked around before he arrived and found a nice old C&H powder measure for only $10! And a pound of Green Dot for another $10! I've used lots of Green Dot for the two cartridges he wanted to load, so that was good. Also found another pound of Unique for $10 that was maybe 80% full. On the same table was an RCBS Universal hand priming tool new in the box for half price, so he got it also. At the last table there we found him some powder coated bullets that were 9mm 124 gr. box of 1000, and .45ACP 230 gr. box of 500. And the guy had 400 pcs. of 9mm brass, and a couple cans of Hornady 1 shot lube. He got everything for $125. and they totaled $140, but I asked if he could knock it down for his volume purchase, and he knocked $15 off. Primers were very spendy at $80-$110 asking price. We found some guys with a few 100 pc. boxes of LP and SP and got them here and there for $3-$6 per 100. So he's set now to reload all the .45 ACP brass I gave him, and the 9mm brass he got.
When I got home I broke down and just paid the price for an 8 lb. jug of IMR4198 at Powder Valley. With shipping and hazmat it worked out to be a bit over $46 per pound. That was the best price I found, which is about $20 a pound more than the last time I bought it! Really hurt, but I really needed it too!

[Walt]

Vall. you did great! Not only did you find what you were looking for, both for yourself and your new shooter, but you started a newbie on his way to responsible reloading.

[marlinman93]

Vall. you did great! Not only did you find what you were looking for, both for yourself and your new shooter, but you started a newbie on his way to responsible reloading.

He is 46 yrs. old, but spent 24 years in the Navy on missions all over hot spots in the Middle East, and never could get started until now. They bought a home near us after he retired, so he now has a permanent place to get setup, and begin. He's a sharp guy, and will be up to speed quickly!

[GunnyMack]

Val, please give him our THANKS for his service, he deserves it, as do all those that served. You have my utmost respect!

[harry]

Powder valley has IMR 4198, but you may have to sell a kidney to pay for it.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/imr-4198/

[marlinman93]

Powder valley has IMR 4198, but you may have to sell a kidney to pay for it.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/imr-4198/

That's where I bought mine, and at $46.75 a lb. to my door total, it's cheaper than anywhere else I found.

[marlinman93]

Val, please give him our THANKS for his service, he deserves it, as do all those that served. You have my utmost respect!

Thanks Gunny! He's been to some scary places throughout his Navy career, but never has been assigned to a ship. Only time he ever spent time on board a ship was if they used a ship as a helicopter base to takeoff from. He said the vast majority of their missions started from bases in friendly counties.

[Griff]

Aye, add my thanks from a former squid!