Darr rolling Block

[marlinman93]

Trying this again since the thread mysteriously disappeared.
I was asked if I wanted this rifle about 3.5 yrs. ago, but with covid, and the owner being fearful he didn't want to meet to complete the deal until just recently. He sent me an email stating someone else was interested, but told the other person he'd have to ask me first, luckily!
So last Thu. I made the 3 hr. trek to Central Ore. to see it.







The Rolling Block is a BW Darr rifle, with Barry Darr's custom built barrel in .35-40 caliber. That's a .32-40 blown out to .35 caliber case. It is a Schoyen style bore Barry built and has his "BW DARR" marking on the top flat. Under the forearm is the serial number, .35-40, 1:16 Twist, and the date of 12-10-75, when he made the barrel. Also there's a Darr custom mold fitted and sized for this barrel with it.
Really happy to finally get this deal done as I was sure it was lost, and never would happen! But he also brought out a bunch of gun re-decapping tools, and a couple Ballard rifles, plus 5 Ballard buttstocks, and 3 Ballard barrels!! I ended up taking all those also, and later discovered one of the 3 barrels was a George C Schoyen marked barrel in .40-50SS, and a full round heavy 30" barrel! Amazing bore, that looks like new in the bore!
He also wanted me to get his 1874 Sharps Gemmer rifle, but I was tapped out, so he told me he'd put a tag on it with my name to hold for me. It's been fully restored and is in .50-140 caliber, with presentation grade wood, and double set triggers, long range sights. Never owned a Sharps, and this wasn't a cartridge I'd have ever chosen, but couldn't be picky with such a gorgeous rifle!

Schoyen copy tool:


Two Jake Simmons with extra shellholders:


Pope re-decapper:


Unknown California maker:

[Blaine]

Thanks..... I skipped over it the last time you posted it.
Beautiful shooter.

[Oldncrusty]

Looks like a tack driver from here. Interesting cartridge too.

[Drawdown]

Now that is a unique rifle, beautiful shape too! Be fun getting to shoot that one!

[marlinman93]

Barry passed away recently, but I spoke with him about this gun a few years ago when he was still around. He said the .35-40 was his favorite for schuetzen matches, and a very accurate cartridge/rifle combo. He told me he'd done a speedlock conversion to this Rolling block to make the hammer drop shorter, and also skeletonized the hammer to make it lighter, and faster. I can see a number of small holes through the hammer to reduce weight.
It still needs trigger work, as it's about 6 lbs. Crisp, and short, but the return spring is too heavy. I'll make up an .045" piano wire return spring, which should bring it down around 2 lbs. or less.

[AmBraCol]

Lovely rifle. Thanks for sharing. I can't see why the original post disappeared either. I'll dig in the back room and see if anything comes up. Odd, to say the least.

[AmBraCol]

Did a search of the moderator log, nothing shows up at all. Can't imagine where the original post went. Anyway, thanks for putting it back up. The only thing that comes up when searching for "Darr" and "Rolling block" is this thread.

[Bill in Oregon]

Vall, you truly have a knack for unearthing rifle treasures!

[gamekeeper]

Wow, what a beauty, congratulations.....

[marlinman93]

Thanks guys.
I will slim down the forearm wood, and also spin the barrel off, and send the polished receiver to Al Springer to get it color cased. Not fond of the blued receiver, or the fat forearm, and I think both will make the gun look better once redone.

[2ndovc]

Case colors on that receiver would really be sharp!

Neat rifle as is too.

jb

[AJMD429]

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It's always good to see guns like that make it into the hands of people who really appreciate them. To me it is a beautiful gun but I would not wind up enjoying it or wringing out its true potential.

I'm glad you were able to acquire it, and if the gun had any kind of consciousness I'm sure it would agree.

[Nath]

Don't know what to say but WOw

[marlinman93]

Thanks again!
Things are busy here, as they always are in the summer, so the rework of the forearm, and color case will wait until fall. Who knows, by then I might even contemplate a new set of stocks with higher grade wood too? But I want to form some cases and cast some bullets so I can get some range time soon, and see how accurate it is.

[6pt-sika]

MM93 nice rifle !

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Barry Darr set a benchrest I think group record say 10-15 years ago ?

Also didn't he kinda get into mold cutting for the schuetzen guys ?

[Pitchy]

It`s a beauty now but look forward to seeing it when you get done with it.

[marlinman93]

MM93 nice rifle !

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Barry Darr set a benchrest I think group record say 10-15 years ago ?

Also didn't he kinda get into mold cutting for the schuetzen guys ?

Barry was an extremely accomplished benchrest and schuetzen shooter. And even before working for Saeco as mold designer he and Jim Borton had B&D Molds, which built all sorts of molds, many of which were for schuetzen guys.
Not sure about a benchrest record, but if he did it, I'd guess it was about that time, or earlier.
Barry's nickname was "Boy Wonder" as he was quite young when shooting matches and everyone else was a generation older. He signed his name BW Darr, and guys got to saying BW stood for Boy Wonder, and it stuck.

[piller]

Looks like it would be fun. I know nothing about those rifles. Ho would it be for hunting deer ?

[marlinman93]

Looks like it would be fun. I know nothing about those rifles. Ho would it be for hunting deer ?

Since it's basically a .32-40 with a larger .35 bullet, it would be a great deer cartridge. But not sure this rifle would be a good choice as the barrel is so heavy it makes for a 12 lb. rifle, and not something a guy would enjoy packing all day.

[Grizz]

when i was growing up my all time favorite rifle was the 7$ 7mm rolling block carbine i bought with the paper route money.
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after i left home all my firearms disappeared, the only ones i remember are the rolling block and the webley. i have some single shots, but no rollers. crazy that i could miss it. it was a straight shooter, and the 7mm was a penetrator. although, i would prefer something more versatile and better suited to my circumstances. the dream gun. i used to plink with it like it was a 22 . . , good good memories..... i can't figure out the attraction to that mechanism, but it's there.
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i'm glad Marlinman93 is collecting and curating and preserving them. it's a service to the history of everyone who handled them

[marlinman93]

when i was growing up my all time favorite rifle was the 7$ 7mm rolling block carbine i bought with the paper route money.
.
after i left home all my firearms disappeared, the only ones i remember are the rolling block and the webley. i have some single shots, but no rollers. crazy that i could miss it. it was a straight shooter, and the 7mm was a penetrator. although, i would prefer something more versatile and better suited to my circumstances. the dream gun. i used to plink with it like it was a 22 . . , good good memories..... i can't figure out the attraction to that mechanism, but it's there.
.
i'm glad Marlinman93 is collecting and curating and preserving them. it's a service to the history of everyone who handled them

Thanks Grizz!
I used to buy a number of military Rollers in all sorts of cartridge chamberings from the many countries that used them. The 7mm seemed to be the most plentiful then, but I never got any at that $7 price. Cheapest was maybe $50 and they were usually kinds dogs, but good actions!

[marlinman93]

Started to rework the fat forearm on the Darr Roller today, and then I recalled I might have a factory forearm for a Rolling block! Opened up my Remington safe, and dug back to the rear of the top shelf and found a Rolling Block forearm, and a Hepburn forearm! The Rolling Block had some bedding compound at the last 3/8" where it appeared it might have had a round transition on a barrel? I hit the bedding with a file to remove the small area, and it dropped right on the barrel of my gun! Seems it must have also been for a heavy barrel?





Once I add a little red tint and some finish to the wood it should match the buttstock pretty good. I called my gunsmith friend and asked if he could cut me a front dovetail, so I'll have him D&T for the new forearm also, and not mess with it myself.
I'll get some shooting time with it then before I spin the barrel off and send the action to Al Springer for color case this winter.

[marlinman93]

This is the Darr mold that came with the rifle. It is an Ideal .308 caliber mold that Barry recut to .35 caliber, and added the plate at the nose to get enough length for the new caliber. It has a .358" base band, and the rest are .357" The mold drops a 244 gr. bullet.

[6pt-sika]

Man that rollingblock would be a prime candidate for a Lyman Targetspot or Unertl of 6 or 8 power , well that is if I owned it

[piller]

It is a beautiful rifle. Looks like a lot of fun.

[marlinman93]

Man that rollingblock would be a prime candidate for a Lyman Targetspot or Unertl of 6 or 8 power , well that is if I owned it

I've got a few target scopes, and it will end up with one of them mounted on it; at least for load testing. But I'm having a front sight dovetail cut also to be able to shoot iron sights also. Have a 12x JW Fecker that's not on a gun, and will find it's way on this rifle soon.

[marlinman93]

It is a beautiful rifle. Looks like a lot of fun.

Thanks!
Haven't owned a .35-40 before, so looking forward to seeing how it does with a high quality barrel.

[marlinman93]

Along with the Rolling Block I got a bunch of Ballard parts, and a couple barreled actions. Looking over the parts it became evident that one #2 in .32 Long was simply disassembled! So I put all the matching serial number parts together to end up with a complete gun!
The second Ballard was a #3 in .22RF, and had no wood, but otherwise appeared 100% complete. I dug through my parts and found a #3 forearm. Then found a really nice high grade pistol grip, checkered stock to fit a straight grip receiver. It fit great also, so bolted it on. But the lever wouldn't clear the wood to allow it to close, so dug back into my parts and found a custom built lever changed to clear this very scenario! Bolted it on also, and snapped the lever closed, and she's tight as a new bank vault.
So I ended up with two complete Ballard rifles in .32 Long, and .22 Long. But son in law wants the .32 Long #2, so it's going to go to him. Will take the #3 deluxe to the next gun show and turn it into cash to go towards the 1874 Sharps.

[marlinman93]

I took the Rolling Block to a friend to have a front sight dovetail cut, and an extractor fitted for this rim diameter. I realized there was no extractor at all in the gun, and luckily I had an old .43 Spanish extractor in my parts, and my friend welded on some 3/16 key stock, and shaped it to fit the Roller.
When I got it home yesterday I decided to try a .32-40 case in the chamber. I knew it would be too small, but wanted to check it prior to making up cases to fire form to the chamber. But the case stopped a good 3/8" shy of fully chambering. I used a black felt pen to see where it was rubbing, and it was right at the base diameter where it stopped. So I sized the case and tried it again, with the same results.
I did some rough checks with dial calipers, and appears this may be a .35-40 Maynard chamber, not the .35-40 based on the .32-40 that Barry Darr did. Likely the barrel was set back, and reamed again for the smaller base, and slightly shorter length Maynard case. So now I'll need to turn down the base diameters on some donor brass to allow it to fit and then fire form them. I will likely save my .32-40 cases, and do this using .32 Win. Spl. or .30-30 cases. I have both, and no rifle in either chambering, so better to use them for this.
I'll have to build a mandrel rod with a small tip that fits the case neck, but also fits the flash hole, so I can chuck cases in my lathe to take them down about .005" above the base.

[Walt]

Very nice thread and a gorgeous rifle! It's apparent that you've been collecting parts for these old guns for so long that you've forgotten exactly what you have. That's an enviable position in which to be! Congratulations on your wonderful find(s).

[marlinman93]

Very nice thread and a gorgeous rifle! It's apparent that you've been collecting parts for these old guns for so long that you've forgotten exactly what you have. That's an enviable position in which to be! Congratulations on your wonderful find(s).

Thanks!
I may be turning this into a pistol grip stock and lower tang when I build a new buttstock for it as I found a brand new pistol grip lower tang in my Rolling Block parts. But that's a later project after I form brass and get some ammo built.
I turned the mandrel rod yesterday to fit a .32 case, and a tip turned down to fit the flash hole so it supports both ends of the case while turning them down. I then put the case in the chuck and turned in steps, trying it in the chamber every pass until the block closed. Ran out of time after getting one case to fit as I had to leave last night early. Today I'll split the sample case lengthwise to determine wall thickness after turning it down. That will tell me if I should form the cases first, and then reduce what's left above the rim, or just turn the whole bottom 3/8" above the rim down and skip the forming step.
If I had access to a .32-40 reamer, I'd probably just bump it into the chamber to open up the base diameter and save all this work. And I may check around for a reamer rental, or a good used reamer to do just that and save all this work.

[marlinman93]

Think I'll change this to "The gun project that takes forever!". At least it seems to be taking too long.
After I found the chamber was not properly reamed, I decided to go to a .35/.30-30 wildcat chamber. But then my gunsmith friend had health issues, so I sat the project aside, and ordered a semi inletted buttstock from CPA in Dec. last year. Then a guy on another forum sent me a message and told me he had the correct reamer to do a .35-40 Maynard, based on using .38-55 or .32-40 donor brass, and would send it to me to borrow if I wanted it!
So yesterday the reamer arrived, and since the barrel was off the action already, I ran the reamer in the chamber and opened it up easily in seconds. I'll do a chamber cast today to check specs, and see what case length it needs to be. It's ready to go back together then, but I'll leave it apart butt my CPA stock is scheduled to arrive Thu. and fitting it will be easier without the barrel on the action.
Might actually get this thing done this month and finally see how it shoots!

[Bill in Oregon]

I'll be eager to see this all come together, Vall. I have never known you to own a homely rifle, or one that would not shoot.

[AmBraCol]

IT definitely sounds like it's coming together! looking forward to seeing it and how it shoots for you.

[marlinman93]

I'll be eager to see this all come together, Vall. I have never known you to own a homely rifle, or one that would not shoot.

Sometime I'll have to take a picture of my Stevens 66 .22LR bolt action that I built in high school. I've never changed it, or upgraded it just because it was one of the first guns I ever owned, and I got it in trade for work I did on a friend's car. I built a "target" style stock, and painted it black. Then I wanted a bull barrel, so I reamed a piece of 3/4" black pipe to fit over the existing barrel, and epoxied it over. Polished the pipe sleeve and blued it. It's always shot pretty good, but I chuckle when I look at it. It's ugly, and crude, but I was pretty proud of my work back 55 yrs. ago!

[marlinman93]

IT definitely sounds like it's coming together! looking forward to seeing it and how it shoots for you.

Maybe by the end of this month I'll have the stock fitted, and get it assembled for a trip to the range. Have to build more ammo now as the 30 or so cases I built before are worthless now. Going to knock the shoulders down on .32 Win. Spl. cases, and then fire form them for reloading.

[Bill in Oregon]

Vall, I was able to bring my 1917 Enfield to junior high shop class to shorten and reshape the military stock. This would have been about 1966, Fircrest/Tacoma, Washington. Can you imagine bringing a rifle to school to work on in shop in this day and age?

[marlinman93]

Vall, I was able to bring my 1917 Enfield to junior high shop class to shorten and reshape the military stock. This would have been about 1966, Fircrest/Tacoma, Washington. Can you imagine bringing a rifle to school to work on in shop in this day and age?

I bought an old 7mm Mauser 95 rifle off the Nickle Ad back then for $15, with no bolt. Paid another $15 to a local gunsmith for a bolt for it. Then I got a Mauser semi inletted stock from the same gunsmith, and asked the wood shop teacher if I could fit this in class and finish it? He said no problem and told me how to bring it into the school. So next day I took it into the office and the secretary there called the shop teacher, who came up and we walked it back to shop class. He kept it locked in his office each day, and I got it out to fit it each day of class. Once done he walked me back up to the office and I went out to my truck with it.
That was 1967 and right here in the big city. Different time than today for sure!

[Griff]

Vall, if you'd be willing to trade, I could send you pretty much any number of .30-30 cases you might want in exchange for any of that .32-40 you have left. I believe that I have about a gallon bucket of once fired I bought off a company back east. I think I've easily have a couple hundred or so cases still untouched.

[marlinman93]

Vall, if you'd be willing to trade, I could send you pretty much any number of .30-30 cases you might want in exchange for any of that .32-40 you have left. I believe that I have about a gallon bucket of once fired I bought off a company back east. I think I've easily have a couple hundred or so cases still untouched.

I've got 5 rifles in .32-40, so wont be getting rid of any brass. I'm going to use .32 Win. Spl. cases for this Roller, as I have no gun in that cartridge, or in .30-30 either.

[marlinman93]

Got the chamber reamed thanks to a good guy who loaned me his .35-40 Maynard reamer. And the brown truck dropped off my buttstock just now from CPA. It's a nice piece for the cost of $115, but now the part I dread; the fitting! Ugh. Lots of wood to come off to make it look right, and fit well.
I am going to leave the barrel off while I fit the wood. Also going to add a stud to the left side of the barrel and make a breech seater tool so I can shoot either fixed ammo, or breech seated bullets.



Going to be a lot of whittling to get tis stock fitted, and final shaped!

[marlinman93]

Started looking over the inletting on the CPA stock, and appears they screwed things up during the process. Top tang inletting was half as deep as the tangs are thick, and lower tang inletting was almost twice as deep as it needed to be. So all shifted up when they did the shaping.
I had to glue layers of veneer into the lower tang area, and chisel out the upper to shift things. Then as I was chiseling out the top tang inletting on the left side the whole corner of the stock popped off. So stopped and glued it back in, and left it cure overnight. Then today I began scraping and chiseling the lower tang first, and then the receiver/upper tang second. Once both fit, I reinstalled the lower tang to the receiver, and did some more adjusting to the inletting to allow it to fit the whole action.
Setting it aside now, and the next step is removing about 3/16" of wood all over as it's that much too large oversized. Lots of work with my draw plane, and wood files before I can even think about any rough or finish sanding. Still need to find a repro Remington buttplate I thought I had here somewhere?

[marlinman93]

I found a guy on Ebay who sells a bunch of repop buttplates reasonably, and reasonable shipping at $24 total. And he had a large E. Rem. logo buttplate that should be around 1/16" smaller all around, and wont need a bunch of wood removed to fit. So have one coming, since I can't find one I thought I might have here?

[marlinman93]

A little more work completed. Got about half of the extra wood shaped down with a wood rasp and chisels. Sow going as I'm not sure yet if I'll leave the action blued, or polish it down and send it to Al for color case? So protecting it as I work the wood, so I don't end up scratching it up and have to have it color cased.
Got the areas around the receiver and tangs as close as I can go with a rasp, so next step is to take it down to the tape with 60 grit, and sanding blocks. Got a good 1/8" removed so far, almost that much more needed to be taken off. Need to also do more shaping on the comb, and pistol grip areas, but they're easier done with the stock off the action.




Also used a chisel to lower the center area of the buttstock. This way I can fit the buttplate when it arrives, and only need to work a narrow band around the edge of the butt area.

[marlinman93]

Got the front half of the stock sanded down with 80 grit on my Durablock sanding pad. Shaped it down another 1/8" in the grip area using my Creedmoor to check shape, and dimensions first. Can't go any further until the buttplate arrives in a couple days, and I can see how much wood needs to be removed towards the buttplate, and blend that end in too. Then once the buttplate is fitted I can final sand with 240 and 320 grit.

[marlinman93]

Finished the stock and forearm today! Also got the lower tang/trigger plate blued, and everything assembled. In the end once the finish was applied to both, the stock and forearm matched up about as good as two pieces of wood 140 years different could match.
I'll let the finish cure before I rub it, and then wax and buff it out!