Range Day Today

[Griff]

Well... went off to the rifle club this afternoon and plinked with a purpose! Took 2 rifles and shot them for Stats... and a glimpse of how they shot on paper @ 50 yards. Wasn't primarily concerned with group size, really only wanted to know how my reloads fared. All rounds loaded on the Dillon 550C. All rounds shot with Clays powder... In the 1873 Short Rifle I loaded the Cowboy 45 Special with 3.4 grains with a 160 grain, powder coated RFN; and, 4.4 grains behind a 200 grain RFN in the .44-40 AWA Lightning. I had a problem with the chronograph on one run of the C45S, one round measured really low, but didn't recoil any different than any of the other rounds fired today... same thing in the Lightning, although there it was 5 of the 10 rounds fired in that string. I think it was because I had the two targets pasted on over the top of the other... (height-wise)... so the bullets were flying a littler higher inside the "V" of the screens, the shadow of the bullet was probably a little less distinct, cause the irregular reading. I didn't even bother to record the string for the .44-40.

It was just over 80ºF, with a 20mph cross wind, but in the range's 50 yard bay, I don't think it had any affect on either groups or velocity. All rounds were kept in the black of a 100 yard std NRA rifle target.



I did find that while the front sight on the 1873 was very visible, the AWA Lightning has a thin blade... and simply disappears into a blur when it sits in the slot of the rear sight... It needs changing... I'm pretty sure a scope or glass of any type will not enhance it's simple beauty!

[2ndovc]

Griff,

Any way you can post the .45 CS in a larger format? I turned up thee magnification up as far as I can on my laptop and still can't read it.

If not, what was the load that performed the best?

jb

[Tycer]

Excellent! I love range reports.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I'm really interested in the .45 Cowboy testing. Thanks for sharing.

[Griff]

Griff,
Any way you can post the .45 CS in a larger format? I turned up thee magnification up as far as I can on my laptop and still can't read it.
If not, what was the load that performed the best?
jb

Right click on the image and the left click on the "open image in a new tab". That's a pic of a full 8-½x11 sheet of paper. All the testing shown was done with one load from each rifle. All the C45S was 3.4 grains of Clays behind a 160 powder-coated RFN, and all the .44-40 was with 4.4 grains of Clays behind a 200 grain RFN.

I mainly did the test to see just exactly how consistent my powder drops were on the Dillon for these light loads. After noting the wide ES on the first 10-shot string, I separated out two groups based on case... my Starline C45S cases and 45Colt cases cut down to C45S length. While the highest velocity was in a cut-down 45 Colt case, I'm not sure I can make a real conclusion based on one round. Otherwise they were all in the mid-600 to low 700 fps range. If I have to make one, it's based on the only group I didn't show on my sheet, which was a different powder & bullet. These rounds were not loaded by me, but, by a former cowboy shooter who's loads I trust... (tho' I didn't first shoot them outta my Rossi, rather than my Colt... ). It was a 200 gran RFN (Same as I use in my 45ACP) but with only 4 grains of Titegroup. This group ranged from 725-773 fps for the 5 shots I ran across the chronograph, So... If I have to make a conclusion, I'm going to say my Dillon doesn't throw real consistent charge weights across a loading session of 3 hundred rounds... Although I check my charge weights after each tube of primers (100 rounds), and according to my scale I'm still running right on my desired weight. Admittedly, I haven't tested these particular bullets for weight consistency either... (commercial caster). I bought 2500 from a new source and have used 1500 of them in the last 2 years in cowboy action without a noticeable increase in my misses... until this last Saturday... When I missed two shots that I believed I was "right on target". But... I load them up in bulk (my definition, 2-300 round runs), and keep them in a .30cal ammo can, loose. So my inventory gets used in a "last in - first out" method.

I have a "U" shaped string of LEDs on the bottom of my Dillon's top frame, which casts virtually shadowless light into my cases, and I visually look at each charged case before I move it the bullet seating station. I haven't noted any anomalies... But regardless of what I claim, I ain't perfect!

My final conclusion? I want to re-run the numbers if I drop out that 98.5 fps shot for new ES & SD numbers for the remaining 4 rounds. I have no doubt that was an erroneous chrono reading. But, even with that, I have more testing to do! YEAH!!!! More powders to test, and check the consistency of the bullets I bought... tho'... for cowboy action shooting, they're probably fine. I like the feedback I get from these loads, and, for the most part, they're "accurate enough". When I was shooting nothing but 45 Colts in my rifles, I used 6 grains of RedDot behind a 200 grain bullet and my ES & SD numbers were quite a bit lower. And with my 45ACP loads from any of my 1911s, I haven't chrono'd a single one. Load 'em up and take 'em out chute 'em up! Both the 45 Colt and 45ACP are kept, stored and used in the same fashion as the C45S, in a 30 cal ammo can... newest stuff on top!

I generally don't have time to test, either I'm loading to top off my cans, attending a match, doing farm chores, plus household chores... or I'm off running around the country delivering other people's "stuff" to even other people! The past week my truck is in the shop waiting its turn under the wrench... (bad injector - thankfully under warranty)!

Now that I've got a little bit of time... I thought I'd tackle that long delayed testing. And, proved I have more to do. But, still a little reluctant... primer usage and all! But, I'll probably go out to the shop and load a few test rounds with some different powders... I've got RedDot, 231, Titegroup and Pistol CFE in bulk, plus the common pistol powders in 1 lb cans. Unique, and several others...

Oh... eliminating one other variable, all loads were loaded with Winchester WLP primers from the same case.

P.S.: If any of you guys have a suggestion, feel free to put it out there, I have probably learned more from criticism of my failures, than from any successes.

[Griff]

I'm really interested in the .45 Cowboy testing. Thanks for sharing.

I'm going to load up some 200 grain Speer "Flying Ashtrays" in the C45S as a defense load... I'll probably use the same data I use in the 45ACP and the 1911. And test them outta this little rifle... I did that in a Marlin 1894 that was re-timed to use the short case, but can't find my results... But, IIRC they were encouraging... But at the time, I had a very limited supply of bullets... I picked up 1100 of the discontinued bullets at an estate sale 2 years ago, and haven't gotten around to loading many of them.

[2ndovc]

Didn't work, still couldn't read it but the write up is great.

Thanks!

jb

[Griff]

Since the Rose is still in the shop... (I ain't sure how it takes 10 days to replace an injector... must be made of unobtainium...), I went back to the drawing boards on my cowboy load for the C45S. I was dissatisfied with the 3.4 grains of Clays behind the 160 RFN, and thought that maybe 231/HP-38 might be a better choice. Since I have a full 30. can of them, I'll be using them up... Anyway, I'll probably test a few more powders between now and the time I used up this can!

So... I fired up the old Lee Shooter program and went to its "calculator" function and chose "reduced loads". Since Lyman's 4th Edition Cast Handbook lists the minimum load with a 160 cast bullet & 231 as 6.4 grains, yielding 946 fps, I wondered if I could get a consistent reading in a load around the 725 fps target I have. The answer is, yes & no! Since those loads are from a 5" 1911, I know that I might be a little faster than the 725 goal... which, if I was still around 750fps would be fine.

The below chart shots my results. In the top left listing, I forgot to erase the 839.6 first round from the string, as... I'd lifted the barrel to nearly vertical before lowering and firing the round... the balance of the rounds the barrel remained flat as I levered each succeeding round into the chamber. Many ranges have a rule about lifting your muzzle above the top of the berm, so it's rare that I do that during a cowboy match... The string on the bottom right is where I did that on ever round... well, somewhat the same version of "vertical". I couldn't swear that all were raised to any particular degree, but all were more than horizontal. The bottom left I did erase that 1st shot, and proceeded as with the first string... While the average shot velocity is 18 fps difference, it fall within the range the deviation for all 3 of those strings, (top left, bottom left & bottom middle). The top middle was the same 4.6 grains of HP-38 behind a Speer 200 grain HP... the famed "Flying Ashtray". Both the 160 & 200 were seated to crimp in the their crimp groove.


All shooting was done at the club's 50 range, and all rounds were kept inside the 8" black of my Shoot-N-See paste on target. (I did try today to aim a bit more precisely, but still only used my elbows to support the rifle on the bench. I didn't feel like walking out to the 100 yard line to see what type of drop I would experience with these loads... as (at least the 160 pills) will only be used for cowboy action, where "long distance" seems to be measured in feet... vs. yards! And 50, is probably as far as you'll see!