Politics - so, many of us are heartless...

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Ysabel Kid
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Politics - so, many of us are heartless...

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Knowing that many of us here are libertarian in nature, if not outright members of the Libertarian party, I thought this might interest some of you. It is from Chuck Muth's "Muth's Truths" today...

HEARTLESS, SOULESS LIBERTARIANS MY EYE
I've said it before and I'm repeating it now: If Sen. John McCain picks former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee as his running mate there's no way I'll even consider voting for the GOP ticket this year...an "iffy" proposition as it is already. And if there was even a smidgen of doubt in my mind about that, it was erased this week by these comments by the Huckster.

"The greatest threat to classic Republicanism is not liberalism; it's this new brand of libertarianism, which is social liberalism and economic conservatism. But it's a heartless, callous, soulless type of economic conservatism because it says 'look, we want to cut taxes and eliminate government. If it means that elderly people don't get their Medicare drugs, so be it. If it means little kids go without education and healthcare, so be it.' . . . That's not historic Republicanism. Historic Republicanism does not hate government."

That's the kind of over-the-top anti-conservative/libertarian rhetoric you'd expect to hear from Hillary or Obama. And it's nothing but warmed-over regurgitation of "compassionate conservatism" - and we all know how well THAT has worked for Republicans.

All I know is that while "hate" is too strong of a word to use to describe how libertarians feel toward government, the Founding Fathers certainly harbored a far higher degree of fear and skepticism of government than Huckleberry and his brand of big-government Republicanism. And as for describing libertarianism as "heartless, callous (and) soulless," I'll take Ronald Reagan's description of the libertarian philosophy instead.

"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. . . . The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."

Mike Huckabee, you're no Ronald Reagan.

********************************************************

I also heard McCain is considering Bloomberg as his running mate. The one thing you can say about the GOP, they have a uncanny nack for stealing defeat from the jaws of victory every time!!! :shock: :( :evil:
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Post by AJMD429 »

Libertarians are really the MOST "compassionate" because only under a Libertarian, free market, system can the downtrodden succeed and society as a whole prosper economically and spiritually. Our system sets up warring factions who use government as a weapon against anyone who dares to have a different religious belief or is a competing business. Both Republicans and Democrats are masters of that game, and neither party gives anything but lip service to freedom, or to do anything which would actually HELP the poor among us.

I've seen several media reports of who McCain is currently looking at for VP, and I think they are trial balloons. He is the stereotypic Republican - an "old white guy" who has no charisma - and he's looking at "moderates" because his masters have told him he may gain a few "moderate" votes if he picks one; he's too stupid to realize he'll LOSE ten times that many votes if he doesn't pick a REAL conservative, or better yet, a Libertarian.

The FUNNY/SAD part is that the Republicans will most likely lose, with their "Democrat Lite" strategy, yet had they nominated Paul or Huckabee (or both!) they would have been sitting in the drivers' seat now and would defeat whichever Democrat is nominated, hands down.

But like every election since Reagan - the Republicans didn't have the gonads to do anything but be "less evil" than the Democrats - Democrat Lite... :evil:
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Re: Politics - so, many of us are heartless...

Post by bunklocoempire »

No surprise.

From one Christians point of view, my opinion,

First off, I'm the biggest sinner I know because I know myself the best. And it is an on going learning and maturing of faith for me.

I am at the point with my faith, and what I have experianced in my life, to know the power of Gods Word working through believers vs. "compassionate conservatism" coupled with legislating morality.

In my opinion, the Huckster is essentially saying the power of Gods love is limited, and not to be trusted to take care of people physically (through Gods believers), and, likewise,

Gods love is limited and not to be trusted to change peoples behavior when it comes to legislating morality (victimless crimes). The previous can apply to any politician, party or platform.

I've known more people turned to higher morals, with Gods love working through believers, than any government programs or laws. I've also seen more genuine needs met by private citizens,

Christian and non-Christian alike then government "aid".

More power to the government in the form of our time, and monies (essentially discouraging a Christians responsibility and sapping their means), or, encouraging responsibility,

and we see again what Huckabee prefers.

In my opinion, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, with it's hope of Liberty and message of individual responsibility, is second only to Gods Love and power, any Christian that has a problem with Liberty,

has a challenge with their faith. Something Christians may want to consider.

Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
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Post by Ysabel Kid »

If McCain asks a moderate (Huckabee) or liberal (Bloomberg) to be his VP, it's all over. Might as well swear Obama in now and not waste the taxpayers' money. As it is, it's going to be a tough fight, for all the indicators show the GOP is going to get shellacked up and down the ticket. McCain will draw a lot of moderates and independents as it is - and a lot of Reagan Democrats who wanted Hillary and won't vote for Obama. Where he will miss is with the base, many of whom will stay home or vote for Barr or someone else. Now, if he nominates Bobby Jindal, a young, accomplished "person of color", with outstanding conservative creds, he will regain the support of many on the right (rightfully thinking that he may be the next President in 4 years given McCain's age), and it will diffuse much of the allure Obama generates as a novelty (young, articulate and black) - versus Jindal (young, articulate, brown - with again, a ton more experience - executive and legislative - than Obama).

Keep your fingers crossed!
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Post by DixieBoy »

Thanks for posting this Ysabel. I try to maintain faith that the basic truths of true old-fashioned conservatism (the basis of much of libertarianism) will again surface in the Republican party. Don't the folks who run the show with the Repub party realize how many of us are longing for someone who represents our values, and how well they'd do in this - and future - elections if they pulled their heads out of their butts?

You're right; it seems like the Repubs are dedicated these days to the art of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory." So much groupthink and focus group analysis, and ooops....they forgot about good ol' common sense.

I feel less good about November with each passing week. - DixieBoy
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Post by adirondakjack »

Well, lemme see, as always, FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

Time was when GM, GE, Ford, The major oil companies, the steel industry, etc were the major contributors and string-pullers for the "boss" class.

The Demo-crybabies represented the poor, oppressed, UNION LABOR, the Jews, the Teachers, in some quarters Roman Catholics (who felt oppressed in their cities), and so on.

With the "outsourcing" of the means of production of all but our farm and "high tech" industries (oddly, high tech seems to be a "left of Lenin" bastion politically centered around Berkely and the pot leaf party), what exactly does the former "party of the bosses" have to draw MONEY from? You got it, GRUMPY OLD MEN (white men), downtrodden small business owners, and the Evangelical Christian movement.

Meanwhile, "People of Color", Union members (increasingly those are non-portable jobs like teachers, cops, hospital folks and GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, WOMEN (Hillary has them riled) along with the bazillions of immigrants and their kids, all vote for the Dem. party as sure as pavlov's dogs will slobber when the bell rings.

Where EXACTLY does the Right get the NUMBERS, and dollars to make a stand that is more than token waving of some flag of principle (ya don't legislate or sign laws unless ya WIN) in this battlefield? They get em from the margins of the moderate or "swing" voters, those who like FAT GI BIlls, college aid for their kids, medical insurance and research money for every toenail fungus and addiction possible, and LOTS of support for GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS that EMPLOY people. Ya gotta be FOR "law and order" because that gets votes from COPS, Prison and jail employees, probabtion, parole, and the many ancillary services the prisons, jails, police, WAR ON DRUGS, and so forth consumes at taxpayer expense.

So a LIBERTARIAN with a USEFUL voice is as much a "rhino" (republican in name only) as is the democrat in elephant skin who runs in a rural area where the republicans ALWAYS win.

You can SIT ON THE SIDELINES with the "high road" principles, or you can make "deals with the devil" in order to "run things".


If tomorrow I said "I am for pared down government, elimination of "victimless crime" laws, very low taxes and very little government regulation, where do I draw support from?

The darned potheads in CA vote DEMOCRAT, because they want their freedom from pot laws, but they want FREE medical care and tuition.

The "cul-de-sac" dweller WANTS rules and services (the danged homeowners covenants are enough to make Mousalini grin from his grave). The vets and their families WANT liberal spending on GI Bills, the cops, prison workers, probabtion, parole, court employees, and suppliers of everything from cars to tazers to guns to court steno machines WANT larger emphasis on crime and punishment. Mayors WANT their "dregs imprisoned and they want federal aid for roads, schools, etc INCREASED if nothing else, to cover fuel costs.

The small business guy is the probable place to find support, BUT, he too wants incresed police presence, government supported health care (so he can afford to fix his kids teeth on what he earns working 80 hours a week), and so on.

There are not enough folks who WANT to stand on their own and be left alone, and are willing to take the inherent risks involved. Maybe we need to co-opt the blue water, live aboard sailors? Those are folks who chucked it all to get back freedom. gone is the house, SUV, big screen TV, most of their worldly stuff, to have a boat, some groceries, some spare rope in the locker and wind in their sails, real freedom. I only they PRODUCED something besides broken down, financial ruined 60 year olds with skin cancer looking for FREE medical care, subsidized housing, etc when they come back to "reality".


As one friend put it, "If you want somebody willing to do without in order to live free, find somebody who never has had much and is still strong, and doesn't live anywhere near the "projects" where folks run around in customized escalades while living on the government teat" (further, ya gotta find somebody who never had an idea in their head that the government might BUY them a plastic hip or viagra if they simply give their property to their kids and plead poverty.

There ain't many of em left.
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Post by Comal Forge »

Everybody on "the Hill" is cut from the same cloth - whether GOP or Dem. The trouble is that The Political Machine is so firmly entrenched that it will not tolerate someone coming in from the outside without a truck full of money behind him or her, which circles right back to where we are now. Sort of a vicious circle, so to speak... :twisted:
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Post by adirondakjack »

Comal Forge wrote:Everybody on "the Hill" is cut from the same cloth - whether GOP or Dem. The trouble is that The Political Machine is so firmly entrenched that it will not tolerate someone coming in from the outside without a truck full of money behind him or her, which circles right back to where we are now. Sort of a vicious circle, so to speak... :twisted:
We could take a page from our cousins acoss the pond and SEVERELY limit campaigns. Ask yerself, how exactly does somebody spend $50M to get a job paying $250K?

Cut out the lobbying, PERIOD. Give em all a roll of stamps or twenty, and the POTUS candidates 25 hours of FREE TV time (make it part of the FCC license, like we do with "just say no" public service announcements, and you'd return this country to "one man, one vote" and no noses up the halliburton, EXXON, Microsoft, or CHICOM rectums.
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Post by bigfred44 »

"The greatest threat to classic Republicanism is not liberalism; it's this new brand of libertarianism, which is social liberalism and economic conservatism. But it's a heartless, callous, soulless type of economic conservatism because it says 'look, we want to cut taxes and eliminate government. If it means that elderly people don't get their Medicare drugs, so be it. If it means little kids go without education and healthcare, so be it.' . . . That's not historic Republicanism. Historic Republicanism does not hate government."

Well I like Huckabee and I agree with what He said, what he is talking about is people like Neal Boortz who are so far to the right that they are completely of the scale, Boortz made the comment earlier this year that Christians should get out of the Republican party and start there own because some guy that was a member of a church that had some odd beliefs made some public statements that Boortz thought made conservatives look stupid, I like to listen to Neal but don't agree with everything he says and I probably would'nt agree with all of huckabee's ideals but He appears to Me to be the closest thing to a decent God fearing man that we had to choose from this election. I am way over on the Right and believe there should be very few federal laws and that most laws on the books now should'nt exist, But we do need Social security for the old Folks and enough federal government to keep the nation on the right track, We will have to keep electing the best people we can to run things until God returns and shows us all how it should be done and Huckabee is the best I saw this go round
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Hey, It Could Happen
by Scott Bieser
scott@scottbieser.com
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2008/tle470-20080601-02.html
Special to The Libertarian Enterprise

The good news from the Libertarian Party National Convention in Denver this past weekend was, Big Head Press sold a big pile of books. Also, my friend L. Neil Smith got to meet up with a dozen or so friends he hasn't seen in years, and I got to hang with some great people who had been "Internet friends" till now, and meet many interesting new friends.

The bad news is, well, already pretty widely known. Bob Barr has the LP Presidential Nomination, and his buddy Richard Viguerie at long last can add the LP national mailing list to his collection. Actual Libertarian Steve Kubby went down in flames, although the other Actual Libertarian, Dr. Mary Ruwart, ran a strong second in the voting. If 50 delegates had voted the other way on that 6th ballot, the outcome would have been very different.

The question now is, should we care?

Back in the 1970s, when I joined the libertarian movement, the operating definition of "libertarian" pretty much boiled down to as follows:

A libertarian is someone who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate* force or fraud against another person, nor may one delegate to or incite others to do the same.

* to "initiate force" means to be the first to introduce coercion into a situation, either by violence or threat of violence. Defensive force is justified, and retaliatory force may be justified depending on the circumstances.

This is the "non-aggression principle," which coupled with the Lockean definition of property rights, is the core of libertarianism, and the basis for an ethical system that the Libertarian Party was founded in order to propagate and eventually establish in public policy.


There are, to be sure, some difficult questions—such as abortion, or pacifism, or engagement in electoral politics—about which reasonable libertarians may disagree. But advocating taxation, or legal discrimination against people with unpopular lifestyles, or prohibiting any peaceful activity, are clearly against libertarian principles.

One result of this move to form a political party was that, as the most visible movement vehicle, whatever the Party does has come to define what "libertarian" means to most people. What Rothbard wrote, or what core libertarian activists wrote into the original party platforms, matters little compared to what that guy in the tie on the idiot box exclaims.

So with the nomination of Barr, the word "libertarian" will cease to describe a unique ethical and political philosophy, but simply indicate a kind of low-tax conservatism. And the Libertarian Party will now become a dumping ground for other failed Republicans. And it still won't be able to win elections except in some local offices in low-population towns and counties, and when these "neo-libertarians" gain office, they will act just like Republicans, because the requirements of political power will easily overwhelm whatever weakened principles they may have and drive them tax, borrow, and spend just as politicians always have.

As a complement to the pragmatist triumph of Barr was the completion of the gut-the-Platform project begun in the off-year convention held in Portland in 2006. Replacing the formerly clear and deep explication of libertarianism of previous platforms is a series of TV-friendly sound-bites that are, for the most part, so vague as to render the Platform useless as the educational tool it was once intended to be.

Now, I fully expected something like this to happen, sooner or later. As I explained when I quit the Party eight years ago, the formation of a political party seemed like a good idea at the time but turned out to be a major strategic error. The founders did not expect to win elections in the short term, but thought the Party could be an educational vehicle, by attracting free media attention during election seasons when people are most inclined to think about politics.

However, electoral politics, with a few exceptions, has proved a very poor means of educating people. While it has found some success in bringing together and mobilizing people who are already inclined to cherish liberty, most of what educating has been done has happened outside the Party. (Mostly by authors such as Ayn Rand, Robert Heinlein, R.A. Wilson and L. Neil Smith writing compelling stories with strong libertarian themes, and by academicians making the case for liberty in economics, history, game theory, and so forth.) The public cannot be educated with bumper-sticker slogans and the short sound-bites that get through the media filters during election campaigns. Most Party energy is taken up with satisfying ballot access requirements and the various nuts-and-bolts requirements of campaigning—canvassing, making signs, mailing out flyers, organizing campaign events.

What little "internal" education has been attempted has run up against people who feel they already know the score and resent being told they need educating. They are mostly people with opinions only slightly removed from the mainstream, who are just looking for a vehicle to achieve power and enact their agendas. They don't understand what libertarianism really means and they don't want to understand, they just want to get elected.

And so while ballot access drives and lawsuits have chewed up activist money and resources, so have the continuing factional struggles between the "pragmatists" and the "purists" consumed much of our energy. And over the last two decades, many of the "purists," myself included, have walked away from this useless fight, and now have left the Party in the hands of the Republicanoids.

As I said I knew this was going to happen, and it is a painful but necessary step towards fixing the problem that was created when the Party was founded in 1971.

The danger we face now is that the ideals of libertarianism will be polluted and twisted just as was the formerly honorable term and tradition of "liberalism," at the hands of the progressive/socialists of a century ago. But this can be avoided.

The solution to this problem is to get the Party to give up the name "Libertarian." I think this can be done via a two-pronged approach: 1) Those of us outside the Party but retaining soap-box power must make abundantly clear what libertarianism really is, and constantly harangue the Party for its failure to live up to that; 2) Those radical stalwarts remaining in the Party must make themselves such an enormous pain-in-the-butt that the leadership will gladly change the Party name if it will get rid of them.

Once the erstwhile Libertarian Party becomes the Fair-Tax Party or Conservatoid Party or whatever they end up calling themselves, we will have saved our "brand" and can apply it to something better—a membership-based advocacy group modeled on the Sierra Club, or something like it, which can be as successful in spreading the ideals of liberty as the SC has been spreading the ideals of environmentalism.

And we can focus on the important task at hand, and spend a great deal less time and money jumping through the government hoops designed to enervate and defeat us.
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Post by Ysabel Kid »

Old Ironsights wrote: A libertarian is someone who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate* force or fraud against another person, nor may one delegate to or incite others to do the same.

* to "initiate force" means to be the first to introduce coercion into a situation, either by violence or threat of violence. Defensive force is justified, and retaliatory force may be justified depending on the circumstances.

This is the "non-aggression principle," which coupled with the Lockean definition of property rights, is the core of libertarianism, and the basis for an ethical system that the Libertarian Party was founded in order to propagate and eventually establish in public policy.
I guess my problem with big-L Libertarians is that many simply won't acknowledge a threat to our country until someone nukes it. For me, I'm just not willing to wait that long to be sure. Case in point, I think we need to prevent Iran from getting the bomb, and this is by any means necessary, including turning a chunk of their country into glass... :evil:

Waiting for irrefutable proof in life and death situations often leads to one getting... well... dead!
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Ysabel Kid wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote: A libertarian is someone who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate* force or fraud against another person, nor may one delegate to or incite others to do the same.

* to "initiate force" means to be the first to introduce coercion into a situation, either by violence or threat of violence. Defensive force is justified, and retaliatory force may be justified depending on the circumstances.

This is the "non-aggression principle," which coupled with the Lockean definition of property rights, is the core of libertarianism, and the basis for an ethical system that the Libertarian Party was founded in order to propagate and eventually establish in public policy.
I guess my problem with big-L Libertarians is that many simply won't acknowledge a threat to our country until someone nukes it. For me, I'm just not willing to wait that long to be sure. Case in point, I think we need to prevent Iran from getting the bomb, and this is by any means necessary, including turning a chunk of their country into glass... :evil:

Waiting for irrefutable proof in life and death situations often leads to one getting... well... dead!
Yes, that is a problem with BigL Libertarians, but that's because they forget a simple, but important bit of the above principle:

* to "initiate force" means to be the first to introduce coercion into a situation, either by violence or threat of violence. Defensive force is justified, and retaliatory force may be justified depending on the circumstances.

Just as in any SD scenerio, you present a credible threat - to ME - ("Im in fear of my life") I can and will shoot you. And be justified in doing so.

The CREDIBLE THREAT is the "initiation of force"... and givesus every right and responsibility to defend ourselves - using the continnuum of force - against those who have sworn to kill us. SO yyoure danged skippy we should do somthing about Splodydope Nuke programs - but that can, and should, be done without invading other countries. 90% of dealing with splodydopes in the US can be dealt with with proper border security. The other 10% just requires being individually armed and alert.
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Post by bunklocoempire »

Ysabel Kid wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote: A libertarian is someone who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate* force or fraud against another person, nor may one delegate to or incite others to do the same.

* to "initiate force" means to be the first to introduce coercion into a situation, either by violence or threat of violence. Defensive force is justified, and retaliatory force may be justified depending on the circumstances.

This is the "non-aggression principle," which coupled with the Lockean definition of property rights, is the core of libertarianism, and the basis for an ethical system that the Libertarian Party was founded in order to propagate and eventually establish in public policy.
I guess my problem with big-L Libertarians is that many simply won't acknowledge a threat to our country until someone nukes it. For me, I'm just not willing to wait that long to be sure. Case in point, I think we need to prevent Iran from getting the bomb, and this is by any means necessary, including turning a chunk of their country into glass... :evil:

Waiting for irrefutable proof in life and death situations often leads to one getting... well... dead!
This is also the same argument used for gun control. Some may argue a nuke is different, but is it? Just as "big black scary guns" are touted as more dangerous that need "rules", in effect pre-emptive action, so goes the nuke argument.

What people do vs. what they MIGHT do is the real issue. Perceived threats are anywhere we look to find them, from a hot cup of McDonalds coffee, to Iran and everything in between.

As Old Ironsights mentions it is the "initiation of force" which is the credible threat.

On Iran, people will counter with Ahmadinejads words, but is that a credible threat? Just as Bush states:

"In their threat to peace, in their mad ambitions, in their destructive potential and in the repression of their own people these regimes constitute an axis of evil and the world must confront them,"

Now imagining your Ahmadinejad, are Bushs words credible action? We have nukes. It may be hard to come to grips with, but it works both ways.

The credible threat, the initiation of force, is what (should) determin our actions.

Just as a single shooter, in a school shooting should be dealt with after (preferably during) initiation of force, so should a terrorist or a country. When we start believing pre-emptive actions will make life safer, we sell out Liberty and

cloud the issues, and the best courses of action (swift, deadly and unapologizeing) fall by the wayside.

Swift, deadly and unapologizing, visited upon the actual perpetrators/masterminds, everytime, answering a clear credible initiation of force, with strict adhearance to our Constitution would pull our Country together amazingly.

With terroism, most folks don't have a problem with why we defend our Country, folks have a problem with how we defend our Country, yet the spin says different.

Bad things happen to good people, realizing a credible threat and the best way to deal with it, is what helps make good people.

Bunkloco
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Post by Ysabel Kid »

bunklocoempire wrote: Just as a single shooter, in a school shooting should be dealt with after (preferably during) initiation of force, so should a terrorist or a country. When we start believing pre-emptive actions will make life safer, we sell out Liberty and cloud the issues, and the best courses of action (swift, deadly and unapologizeing) fall by the wayside.

Bunkloco
So, I am assuming you would be willing to let your loved ones be the ones to catch a nuke to prove that Iran did indeed harbor us ill-will?

I guess my dedication to freedom isn't what I thought it was, because the answer for me is "hell no!"

I can also reverse the gun-control argument. I need a gun to be sure I am ready when someone threatens me with force.

In both the personal (CCW vs. gun control/prohibtion) and the national (USA vs. Iran re: nukes) example, the difference is the intent of the people/country involved. A legal CCW holder is looking to protect him or her self and their loved-ones. The criminal is looking to rob, rape and murder.

The USA is looking to protect the liberty and life of it's citizens. Iran's leadership wants to wipe Israel and America off the map.

Case closed...
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Post by bunklocoempire »

Ysabel Kid wrote:
bunklocoempire wrote: Just as a single shooter, in a school shooting should be dealt with after (preferably during) initiation of force, so should a terrorist or a country. When we start believing pre-emptive actions will make life safer, we sell out Liberty and cloud the issues, and the best courses of action (swift, deadly and unapologizeing) fall by the wayside.

Bunkloco
So, I am assuming you would be willing to let your loved ones be the ones to catch a nuke to prove that Iran did indeed harbor us ill-will?

I guess my dedication to freedom isn't what I thought it was, because the answer for me is "hell no!"

I can also reverse the gun-control argument. I need a gun to be sure I am ready when someone threatens me with force.

In both the personal (CCW vs. gun control/prohibtion) and the national (USA vs. Iran re: nukes) example, the difference is the intent of the people/country involved. A legal CCW holder is looking to protect him or her self and their loved-ones. The criminal is looking to rob, rape and murder.

The USA is looking to protect the liberty and life of it's citizens. Iran's leadership wants to wipe Israel and America off the map.

Case closed...
Iran does harbor us ill-will based on our actions/credible threat initiation of force, the history is there, their ill will is proved.

We disagree with how to deal with a perceived threat to Liberty and life, think of a leader as a big kid with a generally big ego, needs equal attention etc..
I think we need to prevent Iran from getting the bomb, and this is by any means necessary, including turning a chunk of their country into glass...
The denial of something through sanctions, UN or otherwise is a hostile act, and presumes the party or country (right or wrong) is guilty, this in itself creates more ill will.

Just as I have ill will about the infringeing of my right to carry in Hawaii, a hostile

act towards me, presuming I'm guilty, pre-emptive. (I happen to have a clean record). :)

Criminals will get guns, leaders will get nukes, the finesse comes in disuading the bad behavior, not with threats, not with rewards, but with an even handed approach, no special treatment good bad or otherwise,

and when a country or terrorist brings something onto our soil, or a situation otherwise, congress has to own up to its responsibility and declare war or use the other Constitutional tools.

Then we whomp 'em, and only them, swift, deadly and unapologizing. Any hostile action, any preferential treatment, any meddling, leads to ill will.

As for Israel, the newly bought Iraq can tend to that UN baggage, trade with all, entangling alliances with none, more disagreement perhaps.

As far as my loved ones catching nukes, not all lovers of Liberty are afraid to die, not our first choice, but we'd take our chances with the even handed-swift deadly, unapologizin' approach

rather than the pre-emptive "strategy".

Insane? Reckless? We live on an active volcano and can see molten lava from our kitchen window, so we aint right in the head anyway! :lol:

Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
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FWiedner
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: Politics - so, many of us are heartless...

Post by FWiedner »

The U.S. government has had their nose in Iran's business for over 50 years, literally kickin' 'em around like a stray dog.

They got a legitimate bone to pick.

:?
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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