Flash-Over Incident Using Hornady Hand Primer

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

Had a small scare the other day whilst reloading that might be a helpful reminder to people to keep safe and follow your procedures not being sloppy. Primer popped when being seated and flashed over into try causing other primers to detonate.

This happened using a Hornady Hand Primer

My set-up post incident



Close-up of hand primer – not sure where rest of pieces are.



Close-up of “flashed” primers (Note empty but dented cups)



And this is the resulting cuts to hand – fortunately they seem superficial. Blast also blew my glasses off my face and they landed ~6 feet away.



Fortunately I was wearing latex gloves so some protection.

Be careful folks and wear your eye protection.

(Just in case people are interested, didn’t notice anything different from usual. Cases were PPU factory on ~4th firing. Primers were Federal Large Pistol. Cases had been sonic cleaned and primer pockets checked prior to priming and I’d primed ~50 that session. This process has served me fine for ~3 years of loading)

Best wishes,

Scrummy

[Bill in Oregon]

Holy cats! First I have heard of such a thing. Be sure to contact Hornady about this and tell us how they respond. I have been using my old Lee hand primer so long that the tray cover falls off.

[Larkbill]

I think Lee recommended only WW and CCI primers in their original tray primer for just that reason. I know that changed with their new square tray model, but I don't remember what that was. Because of the Lee recommendation I've only bought WW and CCI for years. I still have plenty of primers but if Federal was all I could get I'd have to think about it.

[marlinman93]

Holy cats! First I have heard of such a thing. Be sure to contact Hornady about this and tell us how they respond. I have been using my old Lee hand primer so long that the tray cover falls off.

Bill, I use one of those big spring type paper clips on the edge of my Lee hand priming tool to keep the lid in place. Simple, but effective fix for loose lids.

This primer explosion in the Hornady tool is bizarre! Glad you didn't suffer any long term harm!

[GunnyMack]

I have one of those priming tools, I have done thousands of rounds with it BUT I've always felt less comfortable with it than priming with a press. Though I have not had a catastrophe like that I have had many primers crush with the hand operated setup, federal primers too. Federal cups are soft as we know.
Glad you are ok.

[Blaine]

I'm glad you're ok!

The paperwork is long gone, but my Lee primer instructions said to avoid WW for this very reason. But, that's remembering back over 20 years or so..so

[earlmck]

Wow! Glad you are OK Scrum. That's just plumb scary to us reloaders. I've been loading shells for 50+ (hmmm...maybe 50+++) years and have never had a primer detonate in the process, and surely did not realize they'd go off just being adjacent to another primer detonation. That event would add a serious pucker-factor to the process from here on out: I might suggest for your own mental comfort going back to press priming where at least you don't have adjacent primers ready to touch-off.

I once did a little test to see if I could get a cartridge to go off from using "pointy bullets" in a tubular magazine. I first did some primer sensitivity tests to see which primers were the most easily fired and the Federal Large Pistol primer was the easiest by a considerable margin so I used them in my tubular magazine experiment. (I was unable to get a primer to fire in the magazine, even using my little Rossi 454 Casull with full-power 300 grain loads and a point created using a firing pin epoxied into the nose of the "pointy bullet".)

Your post really got my attention. Again, Wow!

[piller]

I use one of those Lee Auto Prime tools with the round plastic tray and the clear lid. No accidents so far.

Glad that it was not any worse. That type of accident could happen to anyone.

I use Winchester and CCI primers.

[JimT]

Wow! I am glad you are OK. Never saw that happen .. heard of it. I saw the results of a primer tube go off on a Dillon machine. It was armored but the follower or whatever they call it went through a steel roof. May have made it into orbit.

[Ray Newman]

From the NEW LEE AUTO Prime web page:

"Please note: Lee Precision has tested the tool by intentionally setting off a variety of brands and types of primers. Our testing has demonstrated that wearing safety glasses and hearing protection will prevent serious injury. However, all types of FEDERAL BRAND LARGE PRIMERS frequently caused the entire tray to explode with sufficient force to cause serious and painful injuries. These primers must be fed individually, see step 7 of product instructions, single priming option."

Lee Auto Prime instructions here: https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/PT1204.pdf

[Griff]

I've used Winchester primers for that very reason. I don't load many primers on the 2 Lee Hand Prime tools, but do when I'm loading a small batch for load testing.

[CowboyTutt]

Scrum, that is one scary incident. I am shocked I have never heard of that happening with a hand primer before myself but McPherson corrected me and said how could I NOT know of it. I had heard of it in tubular loading primer feeders including Dillon and this is the reason RCBS went a completely different direction with their APS strips and loaders for a time, but had not done my research on hand primers.

I've been using a RCBS Universal hand-primer for years with the square plate with no issues because it was what was recommended to me.

https://www.rcbs.com/priming-and-powder ... 90201.html

The square tray has more safety features than the round Hornady unit which apparently has a troubled history which is unusual for Hornady products as they are normally first class. Perhaps they have upgraded it (it appears not after looking). I have a few Hornady products and dies and many bullets and I am very satisfied by their quality and customer service. That being said, I would suggest you purchase one of the RCBS Universal hand primer tools for safety's sake, even if you are offered a free replacement one. I'm sure you can find it cheaper than MSRP.

The Sinclair unit might be even nicer but more pricey. I think the RCBS unit comes in at a more competitive price point unless you handload quite a lot but the Sinclair has the highest safety features I think. So it would be a wise choice for safety and longevity.

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading- ... 37732.aspx

-Tutt

[765x53]

I purchased a RCBS hand primer when they first came out because, they didn't require special shell holders.
I see now that the safety gate that isolates the working primer from the tray is the real selling point.

[Old No7]

I purchased a RCBS hand primer when they first came out because, they didn't require special shell holders.
I see now that the safety gate that isolates the working primer from the tray is the real selling point.

I have one of those too, and if I recall, that gate is also supposed to help prevent a "double feed", which is my guess for what happened to Scrummy -- glad to hear that he's OK and can still himself counting to 10!

Old No7

[CowboyTutt]

I purchased a RCBS hand primer when they first came out because, they didn't require special shell holders.
I see now that the safety gate that isolates the working primer from the tray is the real selling point.

Yup -Tutt

[Scrumbag]

Scrum, that is one scary incident. I am shocked I have never heard of that happening with a hand primer before myself but McPherson corrected me and said how could I NOT know of it. I had heard of it in tubular loading primer feeders including Dillon and this is the reason RCBS went a completely different direction with their APS strips and loaders for a time, but had not done my research on hand primers.

I've been using a RCBS Universal hand-primer for years with the square plate with no issues because it was what was recommended to me.

https://www.rcbs.com/priming-and-powder ... 90201.html

The square tray has more safety features than the round Hornady unit which apparently has a troubled history which is unusual for Hornady products as they are normally first class. Perhaps they have upgraded it (it appears not after looking). I have a few Hornady products and dies and many bullets and I am very satisfied by their quality and customer service. That being said, I would suggest you purchase one of the RCBS Universal hand primer tools for safety's sake, even if you are offered a free replacement one. I'm sure you can find it cheaper than MSRP.

The Sinclair unit might be even nicer but more pricey. I think the RCBS unit comes in at a more competitive price point unless you handload quite a lot but the Sinclair has the highest safety features I think. So it would be a wise choice for safety and longevity.

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading- ... 37732.aspx

-Tutt

I just received a RCBS hand primer with the gate (one that uses existing shell holders)

Scrummy

[CowboyTutt]

OK my friend. Please still be careful. Be sure all your primers are situated in the correct orientation in the square plate before you put the lid on. I know it seems simple but, just covering basics here. Do a visual inspection when you "charge" a primer into the seating tool every single time. Every time. Be sure the primer is seated not side ways or anything that might go awry. A primer not aligned or seated correctly can go bang. Once you think the primer is situated correctly on the priming head, insert the case, and be sure it feels like a proper fit. Don't force it, you already know this. The primer should seat with little effort. Having clean and uniformed primer pockets can help in this regard. Not telling you something you don't already know I am quite sure and 100% certain. But for the guests here, I felt I had to say something appropriate, that's all. Regards, -Tutt

[Scrumbag]

OK my friend. Please still be careful. Be sure all your primers are situated in the correct orientation in the square plate before you put the lid on. I know it seems simple but, just covering basics here. Do a visual inspection when you "charge" a primer into the seating tool every single time. Every time. Be sure the primer is seated not side ways or anything that might go awry. A primer not aligned or seated correctly can go bang. Once you think the primer is situated correctly on the priming head, insert the case, and be sure it feels like a proper fit. Don't force it, you already know this. The primer should seat with little effort. Having clean and uniformed primer pockets can help in this regard. Not telling you something you don't already know I am quite sure and 100% certain. But for the guests here, I felt I had to say something appropriate, that's all. Regards, -Tutt

Will do my friend. I always tried to do the above. Just as always, pays to be careful...

Scrummy

[piller]

A reminder to always be careful when working with something which can hurt you is never a bad thing. I have known of experts being injured due to one careless moment with electrical wiring. The same thing carries over to primers and gunpowders. One careless moment can hurt you.

Back in the 60s, my Dad was working for Pan Geo Atlas Corporation. An oilfield company. Someone was setting up a perforating gun to be dropped down the cased hole. He was putting the blasting caps into the shaped charges. The Perfing Tech had put the blasting caps in his hip pocket for the convenience of reaching for them and not having to crawl back to a box. Turns out that he had forgotten to shut off all radios on site. He had one or two blasting caps left when someone keyed a microphone to make a call. The remaining blasting cap or caps in his hip pocket exploded. It was a humid night, and the electricity from the radio was just enough to set off the ungrounded blasting cap or caps. The Tech was supposed to always make sure that all radios were off until the Perforating gun was down the hole, and the crew were all supposed to know that the Perforating tech with his blasting caps and charges of Semtex had absolute authority at the well site while setting up and putting holes in the casing for the oil or gas to flow in. He had not gone over the need for all radios to be turned off, and he got a bruised rear end along with being scared out of his mind. Being on hands and knees while leaning over around 50 pounds of plastic explosive with blasting caps in it when a blasting cap or two in his pocket exploded was enough to nearly give him a heart attack. No one ever did admit to being the culprit. He had forgotten to have the Supervisor check all radios and move the crew to a safe location. I am not really sure how many actual charges, or how much total weight of Semtex was being used on that well. It can vary by depth of well and type of soil or rock strata. Even one of those shaped charges is enough to kill you in a spectacularly messy way. Point is, working with potentially dangerous things can hurt you if you make even one mistake that overlooks something.

Stay safe and enjoy reloading.

[Bill in Oregon]

I will look closely at that RCBS tool when my old Lee finally gives out.
Bryan, I had not heard of a perforating gun, but then I am new to the Oil Patch. Interesting technology.

[Ysabel Kid]

Good reminder to follow the basic safety rules... especially wearing safety glasses.

Happy you are okay!

[CowboyTutt]

Pillar, great story! We are playing with explosives here. A moments miscalculation can cost us our hands and fingers. I had a good friend who was disposing of some powder that he wanted to destroy by ignition. I don't know why. Normally with smokeless, this is not such a big deal as it burns slowly, but somehow he forgot he had put some BP into the mix. When he went to ignite it, it of course went boom and singed him somewhat. I also recently had a near very scary episode with my 460 Smith snubbie back in April. I had some very old 350 grain 45 Colt +P loads that I had made years ago with H110 that I decided to bring with me to visit my best friend Tym on my way to visit McPherson. I had loaded them up, and had a misfire, no ignition. I ALMOST pulled the trigger again, I have to say. But I didn't and I followed normal protocol. Keep it pointed down range. Wait. I eventually opened the cylinder. Huge plug of unburnt powder in the chamber. When I eventually looked down the barrel when safe, the original bullet was lodged in the chamber. If I had pulled the trigger again, EXTREMELY BAD THINGS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED! I bought the gun to Mic as it was. He took photos and it will be in his next book for sure. But basically what he thinks happened is that the much longer cylinder of the 460 revolver allowed the primer heat to dissipate and not fully ignite the hard to ignite H110 powder which was a milder load. I'm truly lucky to have a fully functional hand here. So it applies to all of us. We are literally all of us playing with fire. We need to be careful and pay attention to our initial thoughts and reactions. If something seems odd, it probably is. Stop and investigate. And the more time we spend doing handloading, the greater the odds that some mistake can be made. Just like the more time you spend driving, the more likely you are to have an accident. This 460 incident was very sobering for me, I have to say. First near mishap I have experienced. -Tutt

[Scrumbag]

A reminder to always be careful when working with something which can hurt you is never a bad thing. I have known of experts being injured due to one careless moment with electrical wiring. The same thing carries over to primers and gunpowders. One careless moment can hurt you.

Back in the 60s, my Dad was working for Pan Geo Atlas Corporation. An oilfield company. Someone was setting up a perforating gun to be dropped down the cased hole. He was putting the blasting caps into the shaped charges. The Perfing Tech had put the blasting caps in his hip pocket for the convenience of reaching for them and not having to crawl back to a box. Turns out that he had forgotten to shut off all radios on site. He had one or two blasting caps left when someone keyed a microphone to make a call. The remaining blasting cap or caps in his hip pocket exploded. It was a humid night, and the electricity from the radio was just enough to set off the ungrounded blasting cap or caps. The Tech was supposed to always make sure that all radios were off until the Perforating gun was down the hole, and the crew were all supposed to know that the Perforating tech with his blasting caps and charges of Semtex had absolute authority at the well site while setting up and putting holes in the casing for the oil or gas to flow in. He had not gone over the need for all radios to be turned off, and he got a bruised rear end along with being scared out of his mind. Being on hands and knees while leaning over around 50 pounds of plastic explosive with blasting caps in it when a blasting cap or two in his pocket exploded was enough to nearly give him a heart attack. No one ever did admit to being the culprit. He had forgotten to have the Supervisor check all radios and move the crew to a safe location. I am not really sure how many actual charges, or how much total weight of Semtex was being used on that well. It can vary by depth of well and type of soil or rock strata. Even one of those shaped charges is enough to kill you in a spectacularly messy way. Point is, working with potentially dangerous things can hurt you if you make even one mistake that overlooks something.

Stay safe and enjoy reloading.

Always looks interesting blasting in oil fields.

Former geo turned economics and planning, myself.

[Bullard4075]

I still use the old Lee screw in hand primer tool. Very slow but sure. Dillon 550B also.

[J Miller]

Scrummy,

It most likely wasn't the priming tool, it was the Federal primers. I use a lot of Federal primers and never had any problems.
One day I bought a new bigger square tray tool so I could just flip the square trays of primers without risking spilling them.
After a while I read the instructions and it said to not use Federal or Win primers.
I figured that was because the same parent company made the tool and CCI primers so they wanted to keep all the profits at home.
Then one day I looked at my priming tool and the tray was covered with primer dust. A yellowish-green dust, that was in the primer package too. This dust is highly flammable and will flash if something ignites it.

I solved the potential problems by washing all my priming tools on a regular basis.

Glad you weren't any more hurt.

Joe