Lyman 401043 For deer with the 38WCF ?

[EdinCT]

I have shot this bullet at targets for 45 years and always pulled Jacked 180 gr soft points and loaded them to 1650 fps or so for hunting and they worked great out of a 92 rifle.
Not so easy to find soft points any more.
How soft do you think I need to cast these to get expansion at 1450-1550 FPS with this bullet? I have 20-1 I've used in the 45/70 with a gas check that seemed to expand but once shoot a deer with #2 with the 45/70 with a 300 gr Ranch dog that traveled about 80 yards in the rain and left me no blood even though I hit her through the top of the heart. So I am worried this might be a zip through with this bullets small flat nose.
I see Hawke has jacket 180 gr HP they say are good for 1800 FPS but I have never been a fan of HP's for deer.I also have factory crimped XTP's but they seem fragile so I'm thinking maybe a soft cast is the way to go.
What do you 38 WCF fans think?

[M. M. Wright]

I frequently use 44-40 for whitetail and I load 200 grain RNFP that are cast from 20:1 alloy but I think 30:1 would be better. The 180 you spoke of would be quite adequate in my opinion. Limit your range to about 125 yards and you'll be fine. This one made it about 15 yards.

[OldWin]

I'm wondering this same thing, as I'm going to use my 73 in 44-40 with cast this year.
I always use the 401043 in 38 also. I haven't shot a deer with it either.
I have, however, used the 200gr. Hornady XTP in a 92
44-40 with excellent results. I have shot 2 deer with them.

[Sixgun]

I'd cast them 20 or 30-1......what most people don't realize is you can use 50-1 or pure lead....for hunting.....a few rounds isn't going to lead it to the point where accuracy fades......you only need 1200 or so....it's a deer, a thin skinned animal that dies relatively easy. A shot to the vitals with any decent bullet is going to kill it......

We all know......(well, the guys who have shot a lot of deer)......for some reason some deer drop and others go, no matter what you use.....about the only exception are the Weatherby cartridges like the .257 or the 270.....I've seen them drop instantly with gut shots...had a BIL that shot a lot of deer with a California Weatherby in 257.....personally, I thought it was nasty over powered. 95% of my deer were shot with an 1886 in 33....some dropped, most ran..not far..40-50 yards....always worked, even on an elk.

Eric.....go ahead and cast up some bullets 30-1 and push them 12-1400.....my son and I shot several elk with hard cast (#2 alloy) 45-70's with 375 grains going 1600...

My inlaws run a custom butchering business and in the first day.....last Saturday....they got in 35 deer.......ALL from archery....there's little to no kinetic power involved...it's cut and hemorrhage.....your 38-40 will do the same..and more...-006

[marlinman93]

Used my 1889 Marlin in .38-40 with hard cast 16:1 bullets for deer hunting, and no problem brining down deer. It did pass through, but the deer dropped like a rock. It was the most devastating reaction to getting hit I've ever seen on deer in my life. When the bullet hit, the deer reared up and landed upside down on it's back. It was shocking to see the reaction.

[Mike Armstrong]

The only buck I've killed in the last 15 years with a .38-40 was a forked horn whitetail "meat buck" shot with a Win 1885 Lo-Wall single shot at about 45 yards with a Black Hills factory "Cowboy Load"! I was bird hunting in upstate NYS and saw tracks and rubs at the beginning of a deer trail thru a thick young pine plantation and scooted around the plantation to my truck, to switch my 28 guage Ruger O/U for a rifle.

And that Winchester was all the "rifle" that was there!

Fortunately, the little guy was a little too carefree and walked right almost on top of me at the bottom of the plantation. Pop.

For some reason, (I forget what. Probably I just forgot ....), I didn't take my GP-100 with me that day, but the old Winchester came thru just fine, even though there was about zero expansion. Good penetration tho--bullet stopped under the hide on the opposite side. I suspect those "Cowboy" loads pretty well approximate the original black powder ballistics from a rifle. Those killed a lot of whitetails back in the day.

[Sixgun]

The only buck I've killed in the last 15 years with a .38-40 was a forked horn whitetail "meat buck" shot with a Win 1885 Lo-Wall single shot at about 45 yards with a Black Hills factory "Cowboy Load"! I was bird hunting in upstate NYS and saw tracks and rubs at the beginning of a deer trail thru a thick young pine plantation and scooted around the plantation to my truck, to switch my 28 guage Ruger O/U for a rifle.

And that Winchester was all the "rifle" that was there!

Fortunately, the little guy was a little too carefree and walked right almost on top of me at the bottom of the plantation. Pop.

For some reason, (I forget what. Probably I just forgot ....), I didn't take my GP-100 with me that day, but the old Winchester came thru just fine, even though there was about zero expansion. Good penetration tho--bullet stopped under the hide on the opposite side. I suspect those "Cowboy" loads pretty well approximate the original black powder ballistics from a rifle. Those killed a lot of whitetails back in the day.

Perfect example of what a slow moving 180 gr.. bullet will do......those cowboy loads use swaged soft bullets if I remember correctly.....I had some 32-20 Black Hills cowboy ammo that I chronographed out of an original Colt Lightning with a 26" barrel
made in 1886 and they crossed the screens at 1135 so if anything, Black Hills ammo is on the safe side of pressure.

Must have felt good Mike....blitzing that buck with an old single shot.... ---6

[yooper2]

The deer I've killed with the 38-40 were done in by the RCBS 40-180-CM bullet cast of 50/50 pure lead and clip on wheel weights. I use the same alloy in most pistol-sized cartridges. Wouldn't hesitate to plug a deer with any sort of reasonable alloy, put one in the spine or through both lungs and the deer won't go far.


Eric

[M. M. Wright]

I've killed several deer with my 45-90 using 325grain, gas checked, bullets cast from 30:1 and going 1600 fps. I've no idea if they expand or not as I've never recovered a bullet. Even a going away shot to the bung hole passed through lengthways. Never touched either ham but gutting it was a mess. He ran about 50 yards and was very hard to find due to lack of a blood trail.