Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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6pt-sika
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Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

Made an offer on a Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine in 6.5x54MS we were selling for a fellow shop and they took my offer . The gun has an old Pachmayer swing over mount and had a Lyman PermaCenter 4x mounted . After I did the paperwork the Lyman was removed . I’d brought an old Redfield Traditional 2-7 and a note quite as old Leupold Vari XII 2-7 . Mounted the Leupold first and didn’t get enough clearance for the bolt handle , shimmed it’s up with EIGHT thicknesses of aluminum soda can and still didn’t suit me . So I got the Leupold out of the rings left the shins in place and tried the Redfield which cleared nicely . Ordered dies , shell holder and two boxes of Provo Patizan ammo which should be here Friday . Also bid on some New Norma brass . Hopefully I’ll be hunting with the gun Saturday .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by Pisgah »

That one's been on my wish list for a long, long time. Congratulations, and be sure to keep us posted on how she shoots.
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by M. M. Wright »

That is a beautiful rifle 6pt. Hope you have enough tickets left to blood it. I have a tote full of those old swing-over mounts. Mostly new, still in their packages so let me know if you need something.
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

M. M. Wright wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:58 pm That is a beautiful rifle 6pt. Hope you have enough tickets left to blood it. I have a tote full of those old swing-over mounts. Mostly new, still in their packages so let me know if you need something.
Bag limit is two per day the entire season ! Bonus tags can be added via phone while sitting in a treestand if one is so inclined :wink:
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

I’d be quite happy if I could plunk a doe in the AM with the 6mm-06 , another with the AR-10 338 Federal Thursday or Friday AM . Then get the 6.5x64MS sighted in with the PPU ammo Friday afternoon and hunt with the little rifle Saturday morning .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by DocRock »

Wow! That is a beautiful rifle and quite a find. The double set trigger should ensure super accuracy along with the soft recoil. Congratulations on a great find!
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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DocRock wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:12 am Wow! That is a beautiful rifle and quite a find. The double set trigger should ensure super accuracy along with the soft recoil. Congratulations on a great find!
Thanks I’ve got six Mannlicher Schoenauer carbines now all with double set triggers . I used to have a MS rifle in 308 with double sets and bought one of the carbines with single non set . Needless to say triggers were swapped and the 308 rifle headed down the road .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by wolfdog »

Sweet!
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by Dave James »

LOVE!!!!! The old M&S rifles and carbines, last one I had came from South West Africa and was chambered in the metric version of the 375 short, made cases out of 06, had the brass reinforcement plates hand fitted to the pistol grip, fold down middle blade and the long tang pop up peep, took black bear and deer with it. sold it off back in 85 to a rather nice collector in Calif
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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Dave James wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:05 pm LOVE!!!!! The old M&S rifles and carbines, last one I had came from South West Africa and was chambered in the metric version of the 375 short, made cases out of 06, had the brass reinforcement plates hand fitted to the pistol grip, fold down middle blade and the long tang pop up peep, took black bear and deer with it. sold it off back in 85 to a rather nice collector in Calif
After I get this little rifle going to suit me I’ve got a MS model 1908 in 8x56MS I’ve had for over ten years and never fired . Think I’ll get dies from CH-4D , have a new folding leaf added to the rear sight and either buy some ready formed brass from Buffalo Arms or try making my own .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by ywaltzucanrknrl »

Very nice 6pt! As I mentioned the other day I'd really like to have one. If you get going on the 8x56 let me know---making brass is easy and I have quite a few proven, chronographed loads. I've found reloading data is pretty scarce for the 8x56---Quickload has been a good help along with a chronograph and some research.
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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ywaltzucanrknrl wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:58 pm Very nice 6pt! As I mentioned the other day I'd really like to have one. If you get going on the 8x56 let me know---making brass is easy and I have quite a few proven, chronographed loads. I've found reloading data is pretty scarce for the 8x56---Quickload has been a good help along with a chronograph and some research.
Thank you sir ! Do you load .323” bullets in yours ? Ken Waters claimed some were .318” but I’ve not found anyone who says their gun takes that diameter . Waters also discussed making brass from 8x57 brass and staging the base of the new brass . I’ve since read George Nonte said neck up 06 and trim it down , Buffalo Arms takes 35 Whelen necks it down and trimmed it . I might very well take you up on the load data . I wanna make a load for the various 150 grain bullets and the Nosler 180 BT . I dunno if Nosler still makes that bullet but I have several hundred for use in an 8x57 . I would “assume” maybe wrongly maybe not that you could take 8x57 data drop back four or so grains and have a decent starting spot . Think after Christmas I’ll order a set of dies from CH-4D and once I get them I think I’ll use George Nontes suggestion on forming the brass from new 06 or Whelen brass .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by Dave James »

Waters is/was a very knowledgeable man, but I have never gone wrong following Nonte when it came to making rounds for hard to find.
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by Leverluver »

Love M/S !!! Double set triggers and butter knife bolt; what's not to like :D
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by OldWin »

Beautiful. Very classy rifle.
I had an early Ruger 77 International in .308 back in the day.. i always liked the look of a full stock bolt action carbine.
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

The PPU 156 grain SP ammo arrived this afternoon along with a new sling , dies and she’ll holder . Sighting in I fired 19 rounds . And I have it on the ATV for the morning ! The 156 stuff didn’t do so bad on paper !
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by wm »

That's one on my bucket list. I'm a big fan of the very similar 6,5X55mm Swede cartridge so I am sure you will be happy with your rifles performance.

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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

wm wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:53 pm That's one on my bucket list. I'm a big fan of the very similar 6,5X55mm Swede cartridge so I am sure you will be happy with your rifles performance.

Wm
I’ve got a few 6.5x55’s as well as a few 260’s and a few 6.5 Grendel’s so the less than stomping 6.5’s I have a fair amount of history with :wink: If I make it into the shop tommorrow I’ll get started on the 19 pieces of brass and load them Monday before Christmas luncheon .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by marlinman93 »

That's a gorgeous rifle, and a real classic one too! Can't say as I'd want a pair of modern satin or flat finished mounts, or a modern scope on it myself. If I owned a fine MS like that I'd do whatever it took to get period correct scope and rings on it. I never see a fine MS like yours around here for sale.
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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marlinman93 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:35 am That's a gorgeous rifle, and a real classic one too! Can't say as I'd want a pair of modern satin or flat finished mounts, or a modern scope on it myself. If I owned a fine MS like that I'd do whatever it took to get period correct scope and rings on it. I never see a fine MS like yours around here for sale.
Thank you sir ! The mounts were in it when I got it . It had a 60’s or 70’s Lyman PermaCenter 4x on top and I changed it for that Redfield Traditionl 2-7 from approx the vintage as the Lyman .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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Plunked what I thought was a doe when I pulled the trigger and turned out to be a button . At 51 lasered yards at the crack of the gun boom flop all she wrote . The PPU 156 factory loads did okay but I broke his neck so that wasn’t much of a showing for a double lung shot . The first pic is from my stand to the now defunct deer on the ground 51 yards away .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by GunnyMack »

Sadly it was a button BUT you bloodied it so that deserves CONGRATS!! Hey that neck shot saved meat, never think twice about saving meat!
Well done!!
Now get back out there and blood that 28 ga!! :D
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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GunnyMack wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:08 pm
Now get back out there and blood that 28 ga!! :D
The 28 I dunno until next year ! I wanna get one with the AR in 338 Federal and one with the 6mm-06 . I had a new to me circa 1968 Browning A-5 Lite 12 with me today loaded with WIN factory rifled slugs .
B08F5115-91AB-4D2F-83D3-73170619FD29.jpeg
. Here’s a target I shot at 25 yards with it yesterday .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by GunnyMack »

That works too! Is that A5 a slug barrel or a vent rib ?

I'd say take that grand old Parker 28 and shoot some birds with it, that'll make it HAPPY!
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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GunnyMack wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:38 pm That works too! Is that A5 a slug barrel or a vent rib ?

I'd say take that grand old Parker 28 and shoot some birds with it, that'll make it HAPPY!
The A-5 is a plain IC 26” barrel . I’ve got a Browning smooth rifle sighted slug barrel for my pair of A-5 12 Mags . I’ve got my eye on an older A-5 Lite 12 with a slug barrel however . As to the little Parker a dog trainer friend and I were discussing getting some quail or chukars to do in after deer season and my reason was to be able to kill a few birds with that little 28 !!!
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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Let me know when, I LOVE to shoot birds! :D
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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6pt-sika wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:50 am Plunked what I thought was a doe when I pulled the trigger and turned out to be a button . At 51 lasered yards at the crack of the gun boom flop all she wrote . The PPU 156 factory loads did okay but I broke his neck so that wasn’t much of a showing for a double lung shot . The first pic is from my stand to the now defunct deer on the ground 51 yards away .EDA18187-3690-4773-9A14-A367B48DC1AF.jpegC8D525F9-4640-404D-84F8-2ABB0FCFD4B5.jpeg7FC6BA8D-AB5F-4E42-B696-E3AB30C94BBB.jpeg
Sounds like your scope wasn't sighted in if you aimed at the lungs and hit the neck at 51 yds.?
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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marlinman93 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:21 pm
6pt-sika wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:50 am Plunked what I thought was a doe when I pulled the trigger and turned out to be a button . At 51 lasered yards at the crack of the gun boom flop all she wrote . The PPU 156 factory loads did okay but I broke his neck so that wasn’t much of a showing for a double lung shot . The first pic is from my stand to the now defunct deer on the ground 51 yards away .EDA18187-3690-4773-9A14-A367B48DC1AF.jpegC8D525F9-4640-404D-84F8-2ABB0FCFD4B5.jpeg7FC6BA8D-AB5F-4E42-B696-E3AB30C94BBB.jpeg
Sounds like your scope wasn't sighted in if you aimed at the lungs and hit the neck at 51 yds.?
No you misinterpret I hit where I aimed . Just saying shooting thru the neck does nothing to show me how that bullet will open or not going thru the lung region . I have twenty more factory rounds I’ll most likely burn in paper . I’ll load some trial loads with the Nosler 120 BT and Hornady 123 SST tommorrow at the shop .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

That deer was facing me when I shot , I coulda waited for it to turn . But he’d already seen me and to be honest I wanted to take a shot that should break bones and anchor . I think a 156 grain bullet heavy for any 6.5mm but especially something in the 6.5x54MS class . Bullets in the 120 to 130 class hit me as being a better choice and at that the lighter in that group I think are the way to go . And I’m fully aware that the original factory leadings for this cartridge were heavier I just prefer lighter with a skoosh more velocity .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by ywaltzucanrknrl »

On the 8x56, sorry for the late reply, I had a few days off and cut up deer, no computer. Anyway, yes I load .323, per slugging the barrel. I haven't had much luck getting the 150's to shoot. I've found they need to be seated at around 3.0 OAL to feed, which doesn't leave much of the bullet base in the case. I have and have used the 35 Whelen brass and it's good to go but I prefer PPU 8x57 brass---pretty fast, simple and easy to get it to work, just trim and run in a full length sizing die. I've had trouble with once fired 8x57, so I only use new now. Some of the bullets that shoot the best in mine are the most expensive, unfortunately. Barnes 160's shoot great and the more reasonable priced Sierra 175's shoot good.
You are correct on using 8x57 data. I find most of my loads---from Quickload and using a Chrono are either on the low end of 8x57 data or just below it. I've found a few articles on handloads for the 8x56MS but most have been limited and listed powders I don't have or use. I've had good luck with H and IMR4895, Varget, Rl15 and TAC and also found most of the heavier---around 200 grain bullets don't expand---pretty sure they are made for rifles that produce higher velocity. I think your choice of the Nosler BT would be a good one.
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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ywaltzucanrknrl wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:32 am On the 8x56, sorry for the late reply, I had a few days off and cut up deer, no computer. Anyway, yes I load .323, per slugging the barrel. I haven't had much luck getting the 150's to shoot. I've found they need to be seated at around 3.0 OAL to feed, which doesn't leave much of the bullet base in the case. I have and have used the 35 Whelen brass and it's good to go but I prefer PPU 8x57 brass---pretty fast, simple and easy to get it to work, just trim and run in a full length sizing die. I've had trouble with once fired 8x57, so I only use new now. Some of the bullets that shoot the best in mine are the most expensive, unfortunately. Barnes 160's shoot great and the more reasonable priced Sierra 175's shoot good.
You are correct on using 8x57 data. I find most of my loads---from Quickload and using a Chrono are either on the low end of 8x57 data or just below it. I've found a few articles on handloads for the 8x56MS but most have been limited and listed powders I don't have or use. I've had good luck with H and IMR4895, Varget, Rl15 and TAC and also found most of the heavier---around 200 grain bullets don't expand---pretty sure they are made for rifles that produce higher velocity. I think your choice of the Nosler BT would be a good one.
Thank you sir !
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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Used my twenty fires PPU cases to make some test loads and fired them on paper when I got all be it only at 50 yards . The Hornady 123 SST did well with 41.1 grains of IMR4350 and the Nosler 120 BT looked best with 40.1 grains of IMR4350 . Sorry to say with so few cases I only tried IMR4350 and IMR4064 . I loaded twenty two cases after I fired six groups and shot a couple more factory rounds . After hunting before lunch I’ll head over to the gun club to sight in at 100 yards with the 123 SST load and see where POI is for the Nosler bullet in relation to the Hornady bullet . Also wanna take the Savage Hog Hunter in 338 Federal and sight it in with Federal factory 185 grain Fusion ammo .?
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by ywaltzucanrknrl »

So, I gave you some bad info on the 8x56 with respect to cases. Last night I dug out my notes, articles and related info. The PPU cases I have actually have the largest base diameter of the 8x57 brass I have. I'm using RCBS dies and they did not size the base on the PPU cases down enough to chamber in my 8x56 MS. What I ended up doing to get them to work may or may not be the best deal. I cut about 1 3/4" off of a 30-06 full length sizing die I had. I ground about 1/8" off the base of the die and polished it and rounded the edge by the cut. Then I ran the PPU cases in and sized the base down. This worked but like I say might not be the best way. My notes show that I had new Remington and Winchester 8x57 cases that chambered fine after being full length sized in the RCBS dies. If you read Ken Waters article in June-July 1995 Handloader # 175 he talks about the base size issue. Pretty sure this is why Buffalo Arms uses 35 Whelen brass as the diameter is about .004 smaller at the base than 8x57 brass. So scrap my comment on the PPU brass. My rifle chambers brass fine that measures .465 or .466 at the base. Also mentioning this as if you have CH make dies, they may be able to make a smaller base die if you want to use just any 8x57 brass. Chuck Hawks published some loads for the 8x56 and so did Waters in the article I Mentioned above. John Haviland also wrote a kind of related article about a MS rifle he bought----maybe thinking it was an 8x56 but ended up being a 8x57----that article may be of limited help----but I have the articles and can get them to you if you don't have or can't find them.
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

Quality Cartridge makes 8x56 MS brass and it’s correctly head stamped . Two or three boxes of that will be enough for that old rifle I would think especially if I don’t get a scope on it .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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Ho ho ho ! I just finished sighting the 6.5x54 MS in with my Hornady 123 SST and Nosler 120 BT handloads . Sorry to say only at 60 yards however . I went to the gun club yesterday to do this exact thing at 100 yards with the 6.5x54 MS and my Savage Hog Hunter 338 Federal and when I arrived I realized I’d forgotten to bring the two boxes of you guessed it AMMO . But all is go now I have them both about an inch high at 50 yards . And the 6.5 shoots both handloads to the same POA !!! So tommorrow in the AM the 6.5x54 will have an 123 SST in the chamber and four 120 BT’s in the rotary magazine .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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Late Christmas gift ! Small doe at 63 yards . Used the Hornady 123 SST pushed by 41.1 grains of IMR4350 . She did run about forty yards after the shot but such is life or lack of life depending on how you look at it . Entrance wound was on the other side thru the lung area but the bullet exited on the off side thru the digestive region .
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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Have the 6.5x54 MS in the garage waiting to go again but with only Nosler 120 BT’s . But also loaded a couple three groups Hornady 129 SST’s for trial . Might try them tommorrow after I come in then whichever one is the best load up maybe 8-10 rounds
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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GunnyMack
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by GunnyMack »

Was she quartering that hard or did the bullet take it's own path?
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

GunnyMack wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:55 am Was she quartering that hard or did the bullet take it's own path?
I think the bullet went straight but the angle may have been more acute than I anticipated . I have a cold so didn’t go Friday morning . But I think I’ll venture out the morning of 12/28 . Only gonna carry the 6.5x54 MS loaded with 120 BT’s pushed with 40.1 grains of IMR4350 . If I go after I get back to the house I wanna try two groups with the Hornady 129 SST pushed with40.1 and 41.1 grains of IMR4350 just in case I get one with the 120 BT’s :wink:
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

I had apprehensions about the stock on this gun but it seems to work pretty well face to stock wise . Which has me wanting to find a mount that’ll work on my Model 1908 in 8x56 MS then I can see how it does with the Nosler 180 BT and the Hornady 170 SST .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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Took the little rifle out Saturday afternoon and tried two loads with the Hornady 129 SST since Hornady says use the same date for 123 and 129 grains I tried 40.1 and 41.1 of IMR4350 . The stouter charge shot a smaller group so back to the bench resized the six cases and loaded them and four others . Incidentally they shoot the same POI as the 123 SST and 120 BT . So at the moment the gun will have a 120 BT in the chamber to be followed by four 129 SST’s in the heat of battle in the Whitetail Wars LOL’s !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
M. M. Wright
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by M. M. Wright »

I'm enjoying following your activities 6pt.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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M. M. Wright wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:54 pm I'm enjoying following your activities 6pt.
Thank you sir !

I'm doing way better this season than I anticipated before I found sonmeone to watch my pop some :wink:
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

Brass showed up for the 6.5x54 MS today and I slugged the barrel on my 8x56 MS just to be on the safe side before calling CH-4D and yes I’ll be shooting .321” in the gun . And I ordered dies from CH-4D . Heck it only took 12-14 years to get to this point !!!!!
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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GunnyMack
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by GunnyMack »

12-14 years ain't nuthin- in '93 I put together a .375 H&H on an Argentine Mauser, opened the bolt face,made a 4 shot mag box, English walnut stock, D&T for a base, blued it and it sits in the safe UNFIRED! I've got hundreds of new cases, bullets too, just dont NEED it here but I've got it! :lol:
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Dave James
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by Dave James »

You mite try Griffin & Howe in New Jersey, they may have the mount
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

Dave James wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:11 am You mite try Griffin & Howe in New Jersey, they may have the mount
I've seen the G&H mounts on the MC and MCA models before but not on a 1903/1908 type but one never knows until they ask :wink:
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

Had the 8x56 at the shop today along with fifty three new pieces of 8x57 and five new pieces of 06 . To make a long story short I trimmed one 8 x57 and one 06 to a few thousandths shorter than what it needed to be for the 8x56 then ran them both thru the sizing die . Couldn’t get either to chamber in the rifle . After trying several things I got irritated and called Quality Cartridge and bought sixty pieces of correctly head stamped 8x56 MS should be here Wednesday or Thursday .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

Post by 6pt-sika »

Now I need to see about the front claw mount . Need to remove and see if I can find a G&H or Pachmayer side mount . Or possibly one of the Redfield style from the fellow in the Midwest .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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6pt-sika
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Re: Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine

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I’m leaving for the Philippines in a skoosh over two months . Hopefully in that time I can get the 8x56 MS and the 7x57 straightened out . And my upgraded AH Fox upgrade , just sent the stock and forend out to be repaired . My gunsmith buddy says he thinks he can tighten the action back up this week as well as straighten the top lever . And possibly rust blue the barrels the following week . Then when the wood comes back just fit a recoil pad and have it ready to go to the Southern Side by Side the day after I return from the Philippines .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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