LOP?

[FLINT]

Hey guys,

Just an observation. Does it seem like the LOP on rifles has been getting longer?

on all of my old guns, the LOP is between 13" - 13.5"

my newest rifle is my marlin 336 that I bought in 2002 and the LOP is 13.75" whereas the LOP on my 1969 336 is 13.5".

I've been looking at Henry's online, and they list all LOPs as being 14" , and was just looking at the Mossberg 464 as they listed the LOP as almost 14"

why so long? 14" is just too long for me in a rifle. I can understand that most shotguns have a 14" lop as those are pointed not aimed and often with the barrel pointed up.

I was just thinking about it and it seems like of like how all axe handles are now 36" when back when people actually used axes for a job, handles were most commonly 28" - 32". for most chopping uses 36" is just way too long.

anyways, I just wanted to throw it out there to see what you think. I'm sure there are some gorilla people out there that love a 14" LOP, but its just too long for me in a rifle, and is something that might actually prevent me from buying a Henry.

[piller]

I have noticed the same thing. For me, a 13.5 inch lop is great. Longer than that and it actually starts to get uncomfortable in any caliber. I am 5'10" with slightly shorter than average arms.

[wm]

I confess that thought has gone through my mind as well. I've always liked a LOP on the short side. I can adjust to a real short lop but a long lop is always troublesome.

In fact I've been known to swap butt stocks on my Marlin 336 rifles to a 'youth' stock before hunting season with the attendant use of thick winter grade coats.

Wm

[GunnyMack]

People have been getting taller than they used to be on average.
As for LOP, the manufacturers have realized this and have grown the stocks as well. They also have to take into account the average person.

Now for my rifles, I keep a 13&3/4" LOP but my Perazzi trap guns are 14 &1/2- trap shooters 'crawl' stocks and that keeps us from punching ourselves in the nose. Like WM says, more clothes in the cold weather is why I keep rifles shorter.

I'm only 5-10 with average arm length.
If you are tall but large chested or short but skinny stock fit could be good or bad depending on your body.

[earlmck]

I think you're on to something FLINT. I hadn't thought about it before but after reading your post I took the tape measure to some of my stuff. The Win 1873 from the 1880's has a 12 1/2" LOP, dad's old m92 from the late 1920's measures 12 3/4", and the m94 new mfg one I bought a couple years ago measures 13 1/4". So it would appear from my limited sample that Winchesters have been creeping up in length over the decades.

I measured my little Henry 22 and it comes in at 13 3/4" and I sure wouldn't want it any longer. Half inch shorter would be just fine for me, and would help out the grandkids who do like to shoot it.

The "Youth Model" Remington 700 I use for taking the grandkids hunting measures 12 1/4" and I do notice it being slightly on the short side when I shoot it but it sure doesn't bother me, so if these manufacturers asked me I'd be telling them that a bit too short is better than too dang long.

[Grizz]

I like short LOP also. this is why I like collapsible AR stocks, and I put on on my shotgun. Helps when going from tee shirt weather to winter coat weather....

[wm]

I like short LOP also. this is why I like collapsible AR stocks, and I put on on my shotgun. Helps when going from tee shirt weather to winter coat weather....

I originally put the collapsible stock on the Mossberg 500 so my son when he was young could comfortably handle the shotgun during waterfowl season. Worked great for that purpose but I kept it on there for just the reason you mention.

Wm

[AJMD429]

Similar issue with handgun grips; short (female?) finger length seems to dominate marketing now. My fingers are not only long, but skinny....so I prefer Bisley grip revolvers, and double-stack semiautos...

[AJMD429]

ANOTHER perennial issue Is the 'youth' stock for the 22LR's....the 'Cricket' rifle I had my kids try was AWFUL....
First off the sights were cheap/awful....a kid can use a 'peep' sight easily and naturally, but a 'notch' one is didficult, and cheap ones hard to precisely adjust, leading to load of confidence, and LESS FUN....

Secondly, the 'youth' stock must be setup for city-kids who begin firearms instruction around age 18.. ..rural kids are shooting rifles at age 6-8, and handguns around age 8-10. The collapsible stock AR-15's will shoulder-mount a 6 year old kid, whereas the 'Cricket' is typically shot under the armpit until the 'kid' is 17-18 years old.

Thankfully the CAR-15 is available with 22LR adapter,, sturdy, AND has great 'aperture' sights....plus it looks really COOL....

[Blaine]

A trick an old timer showed me when shooting sporting clays was to choke up on the forearm. Sometimes the LOP has to be fixed, but try this first.... YMMV

[gamekeeper]

I like short LOP also. this is why I like collapsible AR stocks, and I put on on my shotgun. Helps when going from tee shirt weather to winter coat weather....

There you go, it's all about global warming, rifle manufacturers know that now we all shoot in tee shirts all year round....

[Pete44ru]

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Re: LOP -




.

[HawkCreek]

I've been noticing it also. Finally rifles are coming with stocks that are almost long enough to fit me "properly". At this point I'm so used to "too short" buttstocks that they feel normal to me.

[Lastmohecken]

I prefer a length of pull around 13-1/4 to 13-1/2, and often find the length of pull too long on factory rifles. The Browning BLR's were some of the worst. I have often had to shorten my stocks, which I usually engaged the services of a gunsmith for that and usually added a recoil pad at the same time on lots of centerfire rifles.

Shotguns I can usually handle a longer length, 14" or so. Actually, the problem I have with long stocks on rifles is being able to get the scope back far enough to get a comfortable and full field of view, add a winter jacket and it gets worse.

The problem I have found though is a man with a thick chest and short neck has the most problems with a long stock when using a scope, unless the scope is set back more which can be done sometimes with extended mounts or using a scope with a longer barrel. Unfortunately, lots of newer scopes are short, sometimes with bigger more sloping front bellhousing to boot. If you will take a look at the older scopes like the old Redfields and Weavers of the 60's and 70's you will see most of them had longer barrels allowing more forward and backward movement available before the bellhousing hit the rings.

I recently had to swap around some scopes on some of my guns to take advantage of some longer scopes to mount on my Browning BAR and also on an old FN Browning Mauser bolt action and I still had to get an extended front base mount for my FN Mauser to get the front ring back about a 1/2" farther so my scope would slide back enough to give me the desired eye relief I wanted. My other option would have been to cut the stock off some, but I hate to do that on old original guns like the FN Browning or really even my new to me 1969 Browning BAR because both rifles have the original Browning butt plates on them, and I don't want to butcher those stocks up.

These long stocks are often real noticeable to me on the more modern plastic and fiberglass stocked rifles that seem to dominated the market now days. One reason I never hardy consider buying one, and they are often harder to shorten.



When I was a lot younger and weighed about 165 lbs slopping wet, I could deal with a much longer stocked rifle then I care to put up with now, because I filled out as I grew older, and my chest got thicker pushing the gun farther out, and I can't stretch out my neck to accommodate the longer length of pull.

[FLINT]

I prefer a length of pull around 13-1/4 to 13-1/2

Me too. 13 1/4 - 13 1/2 seems to fit me the best. 13 3/4" is pushing it, and 14 is just too long.

The problem I have found though is a man with a thick chest and short neck

you just described me exactly Think Barney Rubble.

[Grizz]

I like short LOP also. this is why I like collapsible AR stocks, and I put on on my shotgun. Helps when going from tee shirt weather to winter coat weather....

There you go, it's all about global warming, rifle manufacturers know that now we all shoot in tee shirts all year round....

yup . . .

[Booger Bill]

My dad was 6ft 4 or5"s. He put a pad or even a block of wood on every long gun he had.
https://i.postimg.cc/50y3wPsr/Win-61-21738.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/6QDtdftr/Dad-in-1946.jpg

[Nath]

Great thread.
I hate too long a stock.
Great diagram Pete

Give me a too short a stock anyday over a too long a stock.

[2ndovc]

Thanks for the diagram Pete. Going by the pictures, it's no wonder rifles always feel too short. Measuring my right arm according to how it's done in the picture, I get 32".

jb

[earlmck]

ANOTHER perennial issue Is the 'youth' stock for the 22LR's....the 'Cricket' rifle I had my kids try was AWFUL....

Crickets come in a jillion models, some for adults. You must have got one of those Doc. The one I got for grandkid use almost 20 years ago has a cheap but fully functional rear peep and a 11.5" LOP and has been a perfect first rifle for quite a batch of g and gg kids here. And even old gpa is deadly with the cute little critter on the usual tin can targets out to 50 yards or so. My only problem with the Cricket has been the difficulty of persuading a kid to give it up to try something larger when they have grown bigger.

[piller]

According to the chart, a 12 1/2 inch LOP would be right for me.

[wm]

I always found a LOP of 12" give or take was most comfortable and in consulting that chart it seems I must be exactly right because it says so!

At least I've been doing something right!

Wm