Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

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wm
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Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#1 Post by wm » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:15 pm

Can 40 S&W bullets be used in a 41 long colt? Not the 40 S&W cartridge, just the bullets meant for handloaders.

Heres the deal …… I ran across a 41 Long Colt DA Colt from the turn of the century. Its been modified, remodeled, polished, nickel plated and 'loved' within a inch of its life. Collectible it is not. But somehow it still beckons, It has a 3" barrel and bone handles and looks the part of a professionals gun from the era before the war to end all wars. I know the bore diameters on the Colt 41LC was the same used on the Colt offerings in 38-40 WCF and 38-40s can generally use lead bullets meant for 40 S&W/10mm.

I have not any intention of running hot loads, but I have brass and dies for a 41 long Colt (long story, short version is I got them with something I really wanted in trade as part of a package deal) and I always intended to trade them off but never did. So plan B that is emerging from the misty part of the back of my head is I should buy a little 41 Long Colt.

So the question is 'Are 40 S&W cast 180 grain bullets reasonably good plinking fodder out of a 41 Long Colt?'

Wm

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JimT
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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#2 Post by JimT » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:23 pm

Back in the days of Sixgunner.Com we had a .41 Colt guru by the name of Harry O. I will post his stuff here for you to go through .. not sure I have all his articles but ...

Everything you wanted to know about the 41 Long Colt
(and probably more)

by Harry O


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contents

* How I got started with the 41 Long Colt
* How to form low-cost 41 Long Colt cases
* Reloading data
* Where to find components

------------------------------------------------------------------------

How I got started with the 41 Long Colt

It all started when I found an Ideal 310 nutcracker reloading tool for the 41 Colt in the corner of an old gunshop. This was an old one with steel handles, 5 dies, a hole in the handle for the case instead of a removable ring, and was stamped "41 Colt" on the side. It was not very expensive, so I bought it. Little did I know what I was getting into.

The 41 Long Colt cartridge was created in 1877 for Colt's double action "Thunderer" revolver. The front of the bullet was about 0.406"OD, approximately the same diameter as the barrel grooves and the O.D. of the case. The bullet lubrication was outside of the case. The base of the bullet was smaller in diameter at 0.388"OD to fit inside the case. This is known as a "heel-base" bullet. In other words, the bullet was a lot like a really big .22LR.

After a while, Colt reduced the entire diameter of the bullet to 0.386" and lengthened the brass case in order to put the bullet and its lubrication inside the case. The bore of the revolver was reduced slightly to match the diameter of the more popular 38-40 at 0.401" groove diameter. The soft lead bullet was made with a large hollow base like Civil War Minie'-Balls. The intent was for the base of the bullet to expand with the pressure of the gunpowder to grip the rifling. Surprisingly, it worked pretty well. Although it will never be a target gun, the accuracy is adequate for close-range self-defense.

After a while, I ran across a fairly cheap Colt 1892 Army/Navy revolver in 41LC, so naturally I had to buy it (to use the reloading dies I already owned of course). It was in poor shape (which is why it was cheap), but it cleaned up pretty good. There is still some pitting in the bore, but the rifling is fairly strong. Then I had to find bullets and brass. Bullets were not much of a problem. Several places sell them (sources listed below). All seem to be made from the same type of Rapine hollow-base mold so the only difference is cost and how fast they fill the order.

Obtaining brass was something entirely different. Starline has said that they are going to produce 41LC brass "soon" for at least the last 5 or 6 years. Nothing firm yet. Rumors are that they are nearer to producing it, but the projected price (if and when it ever arrives) is expected to be approximately 50 cents each. Not cheap. Many places sell Bertram brass from Australia. It costs about $1.00 per case wherever you find it. Original fired brass usually runs a 50 to 75 cents on the auction boards and varies greatly in quality. A fair percentage of the used brass is balloon-head, black powder brass. Stay away from it unless it is dirt cheap (not likely) -- much of it is brittle and it is heartbreaking to see a 50 to 75 cent case break in two the first time it is sized. Don't even bother with anything that has green (verdigris) on it. Also, the primer pocket in a balloon-head case gets loose very quickly.

There are a few places that sell brass made from 30-30 cases for nearly the same cost as the Bertram. Doing this yourself requires a heavy forming-die/bench-press and also a lathe too machine down the rim. Do NO try to form a 30-30 case with ordinary loading dies. They will stick (regardless of the lube) and may damage your very expensive and hard to find 41LC dies. All loaded cartridges are collectors items. They seem to be running $1.25 to $2.00 for shootable cartridges right now. Except for a small run made by Winchester in the 1960's-70's (for L.M. Burney Co. of Texas. But don't call -- they have been sold out for a long time), the last 41LC cartridges were made in the 1920's-30's.

I started looking at case dimensions and noticed that the .38 Special case is almost exactly the same length as the 41LC. The rim thickness and rim diameter are almost exactly the same, too. However, the case diameter is too small by 0.026". I wondered if it would be possible to fireform .38 Special brass to 41LC size. The advantage of this is that the .38 Special brass is dirt cheap, you can use standard loading dies to form them, and do not have to machine the rim afterwards. I tried several experiments before I found out how to make .38 Special and .357 Magnum brass work.

Incidentally, I have since found out that the exact length of a 41 Long Colt case is unimportant. All the 41LC handguns I have inspected have straight through chambers. There is no throat. Only the case diameter and rim diameter are important. I have a selection of original factory brass now that ranges from 0.932" long (for heel-base bullets) to 1.132" long (for hollow-base bullets). Because the 41 Colt chambers were bored straight through, anything that is loaded shorter than the cylinder will work. For example, loading a "normal" length 1.132" case with a heel-base bullet makes a cartridge that is too long to fit in an 1892 Colt cylinder. However, I have some virgin Remington/Peters brass that was originally manufactured at 1.010" long. When it is loaded with either a hollow-base or heel-base bullet, the finished cartridge will fit the gun. In addition, a few of my factory cases have pockets for large pistol primers instead of the usual small pistol primers. Evidently, there were not very many standards for this cartridge.

Anyway, the following is what I did to form low cost 41 Long Colt brass.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

How to form low-cost 41 Long Colt cases

1. Start with .38 Special brass or shorten .357 Magnum brass. I used a Lee .38 Special trimmer in a power drill to speed it up (the difference between the length of the 41LC and .38 Special cases is only .030" and after expanding it is virtually zero).

2. Anneal the brass. I did this by inserting a long 5/16" steel rod in the mouth of the case, holding the case upside down, and rotating it in a propane torch flame starting from the center of the case and working toward the case mouth. When there was a noticeable change in color (brownish starting to turn dull cherry red -- bright cherry red or orange is too much), I dropped it in a bucket of water to stop the heat from migrating completely through the base (head) of the cartridge. Even if the head softens, this is not particularly dangerous at 41LC pressures. The primer pocket will expand on firing and make the case useless in one or two reloadings. After annealing, parts of the case will be discolored (brownish). This has no effect on
it and will lessen with each cleaning.

3. I put a .38 Special case holder in my press and screwed in a Redding 41LC neck expanding die (my wife bought me a Redding set for Christmas). The Ideal 310 nutcracker will work, but it is MUCH easier

4. Put the annealed case in the case holder and raise it into the neck expanding die. Do it gently and it will expand straight and even from 0.357" ID to 0.386" ID in the front 1/2" of case. Remove it from the die.

5. Roll the case on a flat surface. If it did not expand evenly all around, you will see it "wiggle" as it rolls. If it wiggles, throw it
out. The primer will not line up with the firing pin if it did not expand straight. There are VERY few crooked cases with the Redding die, but the Ideal nutcracker turns out more mistakes. It is because the hole for the 41LC case in the handle is larger than the .38 Special case and the case "tilts" easily. This is not a defect of the Ideal 310. It loads 41LC cases perfectly. That is what it was designed for. It was not designed for expanding .38 Special cases.

6. Prime the cases as usual. Use a .38 Special shellholder.

7. Add powder. I use 3.3gr of Bullseye in my 1892 Colt.

8. Seat a bullet. I use 185gr Rapine HB-RNL bullets which are available from several sources. You cannot seat it as deeply as normal. The neck expander is not long (deep) enough, so the expanded part of the case is too short. There are three lube grooves in the Rapine bullets. You can seat it so that two lube grooves are inside the case and one is outside the case. I just screw out the bullet seating bolt a little, but leave the crimp setting in place.

9. They look strange when you are done loading them. There is a larger diameter bullet and case in the front and a smaller diameter case behind that. Don't worry. You can load them in the cylinder without spacers in the rear or pointing the gun upward or anything else unusual. Just load them into the gun like you would any normal 41LC case and shoot them. If they are straight, they will fire, and they seem to be about as accurate as "real" 41LC cartridges even in the "pre-fireformed" stage.

10. What you have now is an expanded (fireformed) .38 Special case that looks just like a real 41LC case in the front 3/4 of the case. It gently necks down to a standard .38 Special rim in the rear 1/4. It is sort of like a large extractor groove for a rimless case. The 41LC is not really rimless, but it does have a VERY small rim. There is no longer any hint of where the neck expanding stopped and the fireforming started.

11. Reload them as normal 41LC cases from now on. Use a .38 Special shellholder. BTW, in spite of what the reloading companies say, a .38 Special shellholder will not accept a REAL 41LC case. You have to use a motodremel tool to open up the inside slightly (you don't need to do this for the formed cases). Don't overdo it. The 41LC rim is very small.

12. I have not had any cases fail during firing using this method. However, if you wish to do the same, you do it at your own risk (just like handloading is done at your own risk). At this writing, I have reloaded the first ones I fireformed ten or more times. Like any case, it will eventually crack at the neck from repeatedly forming, neck expanding, and crimping. However, it looks like they will last a long time at 41LC pressures. I have not had any let go (split) near the base.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reloading data

Reloading the 41LC is actually pretty easy once you find all the components. After all, it is a straight-forward, straight-sided case. Much of the reloading information I have on the 41LC is from two very old Lyman reloading manuals. I have only found a couple of mentions in shooting books about loading the 41LC, but they match the reloading manual. Although I went up to the maximum in stages, I went back to a little less (4.5gr for the Unique and 3.3gr for the Bullseye) for the 1892DA.

The Unique load gave poor accuracy. That was surprising to me. Unique has always been "old reliable" for me. The best groups were about 3-1/2" to 4" at 15 yards offhand and were high and a little to the left. I believe that Unique is too slow to expand the hollow base of the bullet quickly enough.

Bullseye was better, in-between 2-1/2" and 3", and a little high on the black. I also tried using plastic shot buffer as a filler with the Bullseye. If you use filler make sure there is enough so that the bullet compresses the filler when the bullet is seated. If this is not done, the filler and powder will mix with handling, leading to variable ignition up to and including hangfires. Also reduce the powder charge whenever you use filler. The weight of the filler adds to the weight of the bullet when figuring pressure. This is an important consideration with an old gun. Anyway, there was no noticeable difference in accuracy between the loads with and without filler

I have also fired a slightly compressed case of FFFg black powder in it. I didn't weigh them once I found the right size scoop -- one that fills the case to where the bullet compresses the powder slightly when it is seated. Black powder gave by far the best accuracy and the most recoil of any of the 41LC load I tried (this is with old balloon-head cases). It's best groups were only 2" at 15 yards offhand and they were centered in the black. I tried a few groups at 25 yards, but this gun and cartridge are not well suited for anything more than 15 yards. It is not a target gun or a hunting gun, but it is certainly adequate for close range self defense. But more importantly, it is fun to shoot. More fun than it has a right to be. I don't understand why, but maybe it is because it shouldn't work at all. But it does work and it works surprisingly well.

The amount of BP that 41LC cases can hold varies considerably. From tests, the different kinds of brass hold the following amounts of FFFg BP. However, keep in mind that the amount of BP will vary depending on how much pressure you use to compress the powder. Be very careful not to damage the hollow base of the soft lead bullet, though.

1. Original balloon-head BP case (0.932") for heel-base bullets = 18.5gr.
2. Original balloon-head BP case (1.132") for hollow-base bullets = 21.5gr.
3. Original solid-head BP case (1.132") for hollow-base bullets = 19.5gr.
4. Formed .38 Special cases for hollow-base bullets = 18.0 gr.
5. Formed .357 Magnum cases (unshortened) for hollow-base bullets = 20.5gr.

The unshortened .357 Magnum case is longer than the originals, but will fit some 41LC handguns because the chambers are bored straight through. However, the OAL loaded length must fit in the cylinder. That means it won't fit the 1892 Colt (and probably not the Thunderer). It will fit an 1873 Colt, Colt clone, or any handgun made with those dimensions. I am currently having a Uberti Bisley Colt-clone in 38-40 changed over to 41LC. The gunsmith is rechambering a .357 Magnum cylinder to 41LC. The unshortened .357 Magnum cases should fit it and come close to holding the original amount of BP.

The only problem with BP is the cleaning. It is filthy. I highly recommend using special "BP" cleaning solutions instead of the usual oil-based solvents to clean BP. BP also not welcome in some indoor ranges. In fact, it got me kicked out of an indoor range once and the owner eyed me suspiciously when shooting Unique and Bullseye for several visits afterward. Pyrodex P was between smokeless and BP when it came to fouling, but did not have BP's accuracy. Incidentally, the accuracy tests were made with real (original) solid-head 41LC brass, not fireformed brass, although I have not seen any noticeable difference between the two. Also, I have not found any practical difference between smokeless lube and BP lube when used with smokeless powder. Do use BP lube (it is softer) if you are shooting BP.

I have also tried heel-base bullets, but have not had any success with any powder, charge, type of case, or method of crimping. I personally don't think that heel-base bullets are worth pursuing. The original Lyman/Ideal molds are oversized for later guns. It is difficult to even chamber outside lubed 0.406"OD bullets in a 0.410"ID chamber. Crimping is difficult, too. If you want to try them yourself, you need to shorten the cases. The originals are 0.932" long. Keep in mind that there these lengths are approximate. There is more variation in 41LC cases than any other case I have worked with.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where to find components

Heel base and hollow base bullets: Huntingtons I have not ordered any from here, yet.

Hollow base bullets only:
Wayne Doudna Good quality HB-RNL at reasonable prices and a fast return.
Western Bullet Co. Good quality, but slow (7 weeks).
Custom Cast Bullets & Reloads I have not ordered from here, yet.

Heel Base bullets only:
The Bullet Lady Good quality, but slow (6 weeks).

Bullets, brass, and dies:
Buffalo Arms Good quality, wide selection, and fast.

Rapine 185gr hollow-base bullet mold #386185
Rapine Bullets Moulds I have not ordered from here, yet.

Dies only:
Redding They make great dies.

If you run across any Ideal/Lyman bullet molds for the 41 Colt, they are
numbered as follows:

* 386176 which is a 0.388/0.406"OD, 163gr RNL, heel-base for the 41Short Colt, but will work in the 41LC.
* 386177 which is a 0.388/0.406"OD, 196gr RNL, heel-base for the 41LC.
* 386178 which is a 0.386"OD, 200gr RNL, hollow-base for the 41LC
(recommended, but make sure that they are made from very soft alloy --hard alloy will NOT work).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope that this helps you get that 41LC shooting again.

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JimT
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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#3 Post by JimT » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:24 pm

.41 Long Colt Update

by Harry O

Since my last article on the 41 Long Colt ( Most importantly, Starline ( http://www.starlinebrass.com/ ) has started making 41LC cases. They are still fairly expensive at $112 per 250, but that is half what Bertram brass costs. I also don't fireform my cases any more. My brother-in-law finally got around to machining a "full length" neck expanding piece for me. I removed the decapping rod from an extra 44-40 sizing die I had and put the machined piece in its place. I still have to anneal the case, but once that is done, I just put it in a .38 Special case holder and run it up into the altered die. Out comes a formed 41LC case.

I also found out that I can form full-length .357 Magnum cases with the same altered die. This is not to create a 41LC "Magnum". It is to get the amount of black powder in the formed cases up to what it was in the original 41LC balloon-head cases. Original 41LC balloon-head, long-cases (1.132") hold about 21.5gr of FFFg with the bullet compressing it slightly. The .357 Magnum cases hold 20.5gr. The solid head and the necking down of the case walls near the base are the reason it holds less. Close enough, though. The problem with this is that the loaded cartridge using a .357 Magnum case is too long for an 1889 through 1905 version of the Colt DA revolver (which I generically called an 1892 revolver in my last article). It is probably too long for a Colt Thunderer, too, although I don't actually own one to check it.

However, it does fit my rechambered Uberti Colt Bisley clone, originally chambered in 38-40. The cylinder of that gun is long enough and the barrel is the right diameter. I sent it to a gunsmith who ordered a .357 Magnum cylinder from Uberti and bored out the chambers to 0.410"ID straight through. This matches all the chambers I have seen in original 41LC guns on gunshow tables. None of them had a reduced diameter neck in the front of the chamber (although the earliest guns did have larger 0.413"ID chambers full length). The gunsmith did a very good job. Anyway, shooting brass that holds the original amount of powder in an original style gun is fun. It is no more accurate than my 1892's, but it is not any less accurate, either and it is more consistent. Remember accuracy is inherently limited when shooting a 0.386"OD bullet through a 0.401"ID bore. It does work better than I have any right to expect, though.

I have received other types of formed cases from people who saw my original article and contacted me. Several are based on the 30-30 case. As mentioned before, considerable machining is needed on the rim and the case wall diameter must be squeezed down to a smaller ID. Some of them were machined on the outside of the case, particularly near the base, in order to get them to fit. Another batch of cases I received from Rob in New Orleans were made from 7.62x39mm cases. I had never heard of that conversion before, but it works. Again, the outside of the case was machined, but it does not look like the rim needed to be machined. If you have a metal lathe, these cases look a lot more "professional" than my fireformed cases, but I don't know how much work they are to make. Using reworked 7.62x39mm cases also solves the caseholder problem. One of the things I have noticed about machined cases. There are several failures during the first or second loads (cracked mouths, uneven neck expansion - all on one side -, etc.), but after that they seem to be as rugged as expanded cases. I have had little or no similar failures (a few neck cracks, but no uneven neck expansion) in the expanded .38 Special.357 Magnum cases.

Several people are concerned about the "unsupported" case wall near the rim where it necks down even though I have never had one let go there. Rob and I have sectioned several types of cases. The thickness of the .38 Special brass case wall is 20% more than the thickness of original 41LC brass. When using .357 Magnum brass, it is nearly 30% thicker. I have no doubt that the new brass is stronger than the old brass, too.

Rob is also experimenting with "loose" rings around the base of a .38 Special cartridge. This is not for strength. This holds the loaded cartridge in the center of the 41LC chamber to allow it to be fireformed without going through the work of annealing, neck expanding, and loading it with a 41LC bullet like I did. Just stick a .38 Special wadcutter load in a ring and load it into the gun. After fireforming the ring stays in place, not for strength, just because removing it would destroy the fireformed case you just made. Making the ring is still somewhat of a challenge since he has not found something that works directly without machining.

Rob also sent me a few 0.401"OD 38-40 soft-lead bullets with a step (or heel) machined at the base. I have loaded them and shot them. They are more accurate than the ones I tried before, no doubt because they are correctly sized and made from soft-lead instead of hard-lead. The fact that they are not oversized for later 41LC guns like the Lyman 386177 heel-base bullets (0.406"OD) also makes them much easier to load into the chambers without forcing. There were not enough for a thorough test, but they seem to be about as accurate the Rapine hollow-base bullets (maybe just a little less). This is much better than my earlier attempts with heel-base bullets, though. They are still difficult to crimp. I will leave these for others to experiment with.

I have started casting my own 41LC bullets now. I bought a Rapine 386185 bullet mold. One nice thing about the Rapine vs the Lyman 386178 hollow-base mold is that you do not have to remove the base-pin to remove each bullet with the Rapine. It is setup so that the base-pin stays in the center when you open the two-halves of the mold. You just invert the mold and dump the bullet out. This is a high quality mold that is easy to use. I was a little concerned with the hollow-base since I have read of other peoples' problems with filling-out of hollow-base molds. This was not a problem with the Rapine. I don't know if that is because it is made from an aluminum block, but my 3rd bullet was pretty good and by the time I cast my 5th bullet, it was a keeper. I am using a 40:1 lead/tin mixture. I did keep the casting temperature slightly higher than what I have used with flat-base bullets to make sure it did not prematurely harden while flowing around the base-pin. The only problem was overheating the mold. I solved that by plugging in a small fan and holding the sprue-plate in the breeze for 10 to 12 seconds before opening it. The thin part of the base was fully filled out and the top of the bullet was solid and smooth.

Another thing that has happened is that I have done some more experimenting with balloon-head, heel-base, short-case (0.932") reloads. Originally, I thought that the short cases held far less black powder than the later balloon-head, hollow-base, long-case (1.132") cartridges, 18.5gr vs 21.5gr. That was true when I only compressed the powder 1/16" to 1/8" in each case when seating the bullet. I have since found out that I can fill the short case full to the top and still seat a heel-base bullet. This brings the amount of powder to about 20.5gr of FFFg. The base of the heel-base bullet, being flat, is stronger than the base of the hollow-base bullet and can stand a lot more pressure during seating without damage. I have also pulled a couple of bullets loaded that way and the BP was not damaged as much as I thought it would be. I have not fired any of them, but they don't look dangerous. This may be the way that the originals were loaded.

Now that I have a modern 41LC with modern steel (the rechambered Uberti), I have upped the smokeless loads above what I felt comfortable with in my 1892's. I have gone up to 3.5gr of Bullseye, which is the maximum listed in my old Lyman reloading manuals. Accuracy was a little better than the 3.2gr I had been using before. However, black powder is still the most accurate powder with hollow-base bullets.

Good luck and good shooting.

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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#4 Post by Pete44ru » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:34 pm

wm wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:15 pm


Can 40 S&W bullets be used in a 41 long colt ?

Not the 40 S&W cartridge, just the bullets meant for handloaders.

Here's the skinny:


.41 Colt bullet diameter: 0.386"; bore diameter: 0.400"

.41 S&W bullet diameter: 0.400"; bore diameter: 0.4.00"

Mechanically doable, but IMO the jacketed S&W slugs may eventually damage the 140+ years old steel (very different than modern steels) in the old Colt's barrel.

.
IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.


(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

.

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Ray
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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#5 Post by Ray » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:53 pm

"Every gun is a law unto itself"......

Mister Taffin has written it more than once and it may have been original to Col. Whelen.....

While a modern .40 bullet might be the right diameter for the barrel, it ain't gonna fit into the case. Mister Harry gives you the two options in the above articles....heeled outside lubricated like a .22 rimfire or way undersized hollowbased expansive bullet or a hybrid with both characteristics.....

If this colt you describe is indeed a long and not a short, then a blank made from a .38 s & w (not special) case and a .410" ball swedged into the chamber might work. 15 gr. of fff black tamped and tightly wadded with ball in contact with wadding at case mouth is a place to start.

This is how I got into .41 colt shooting without all of the drama of heeled vs. hollowbase.
m.A.g.a. !

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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#6 Post by Sixgun Sr » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:29 pm

No question deserves ridicule. None of us know anything after we are born. We learn as we live, often asking questions. I know so much it's disgusting...shows ya how many questions I've asked. :D

This is what I used to use in my Colt Thunderer that was made in the middle 1880's. Cast from a Rapine mould from near pure lead they come out of the mould at .383. I loaded them like any other bullet with a full charge of 3f BP. I tried smokeless but could not use pressures great enough to open up the base without blowing up the like new Colt. (Yea, sold it and enjoyed the nice windfall) I shot up a few boxes of original Western factory ammo to get the brass.----6

Image
Merwin & Hulbert 44-40
4th Model Frontier DA

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Ray
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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#7 Post by Ray » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:38 pm

m.A.g.a. !

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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#8 Post by M. M. Wright » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:51 pm

By now you know the answers to your questions but let me encourage you to buy, swap, trade or whatever it takes to acquire that old pistol. It needs you to rescue it and find a way to concoct ammo for it so it can be shot again. I have both a Bisley and an 1877 Thunderer that I load for. I have made cases from 30-30s, tried the 38 specials and found a few originals but now that Starline makes new ones I use those. Like Harry O. said, fffg black is the way to go. Best accuracy but you can hardly tell the difference from Red Dot.
The Bisley is my favorite, shoots to point of aim, old yellowed Stag grips, 4 3/4" bbl. And if that '77 breaks, well let's not even mention that.
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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#9 Post by Nath » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:03 am

Thems may work better with 4f.

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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#10 Post by wm » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:43 pm

Well I went to buy it today and it was gone. A gunsmith bought it and is going to use it as a parts donor to get a more collectible gun back up and running for a customer.

I'm kind of kicking myself right now but I will get over it as soon as something else shiny catches my eye. Lots of time yet to find a winter project to keep from getting a little stir crazy after the holidays.

Wm

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Sixgun Sr
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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#11 Post by Sixgun Sr » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:55 pm

Wm,
Sorry to hear that....on the loss of purchase.....I started in this gun game collecting nice stuff when I was 18 and learned early on......if ya snooze, ya lose. ----6
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wm
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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#12 Post by wm » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:34 pm

Ain't that the truth.

I remember this one time I came across this Colt Python ……… :roll:

However I consider myself a whole lot more informed about the 41 long Colt as a result of dilly dallying. thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge.

Wm

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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#13 Post by Bill in Oregon » Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:12 pm

Jim, I remember Harry O back in those great days -- and Rapine molds as well.

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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#14 Post by AJMD429 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:07 pm

Fascinating stuff...!
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Re: Okay I have a question that deserves a bit of ridicule.

#15 Post by Rusty » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:20 pm

Thank you Jim T, for taking the trouble to research and post this. Our civilization has been enriched because of your efforts.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9

It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.

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