Action strength question
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Action strength question
I got into a discussion the other day and the question came up as to which action would have the most strength a Modern made Handi Rifle or a Shiloh Sharps and by how much? I'm thinkin there's not all that much difference.
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They do make the Handi rifle in 500 S&W, if that is an indication.
I've wondered the same about the Thompson Center Encore - some folks say it is horrifically strong and modern and all that, but I look at the way it locks up vs. the way the Ruger No. 1 locks up and can't believe that the Ruger wouldn't be way stronger.
Of course, unless I mess up in my reloading, I stick with way tamer loadings than some, and relatively tame cartridges - the .454 Casull is likely the 'hottest' I've got in terms of chamber pressure.
I've wondered the same about the Thompson Center Encore - some folks say it is horrifically strong and modern and all that, but I look at the way it locks up vs. the way the Ruger No. 1 locks up and can't believe that the Ruger wouldn't be way stronger.
Of course, unless I mess up in my reloading, I stick with way tamer loadings than some, and relatively tame cartridges - the .454 Casull is likely the 'hottest' I've got in terms of chamber pressure.
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I dunno... compared to the pressure curve of the .500 or .460 or .480, I just don't know whether the 55-110 can compete. Bigger, yes. Better, Yes. More pressure? I'm skeptical.
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Paul Jenkins
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Strength question
Gentlemen,
A 50-110 sharps develops very little pressure. The Ruger is considered the strongest of ALL. Shiloh says their rifles are as strong as a Ruger. Everything else falls behind the Ruger, Shiloh, and Brownings. The Ruger, Shilohs, Browning, and Late Winchesters are good to 50,000 PSI. Marlins and all others far behind. Maybe 40,000 PSI. I would'nt want to shoot a steady diet of 50,000 PSI through any firearm. I'm not An engineer or an expert. but , On expert advice, have used 48,000 PSI loads in Shilohs and Brownings.
thousands of times. You can acheive 2000 FPS in a .45-70 with 350 gr. bullets at way under 50,000 PSI. The biggest BP load would'nt come close to testing a modern rifle. If you'll spend a little time researching this site, you'll find that all I said and more is already available.
A 50-110 sharps develops very little pressure. The Ruger is considered the strongest of ALL. Shiloh says their rifles are as strong as a Ruger. Everything else falls behind the Ruger, Shiloh, and Brownings. The Ruger, Shilohs, Browning, and Late Winchesters are good to 50,000 PSI. Marlins and all others far behind. Maybe 40,000 PSI. I would'nt want to shoot a steady diet of 50,000 PSI through any firearm. I'm not An engineer or an expert. but , On expert advice, have used 48,000 PSI loads in Shilohs and Brownings.
thousands of times. You can acheive 2000 FPS in a .45-70 with 350 gr. bullets at way under 50,000 PSI. The biggest BP load would'nt come close to testing a modern rifle. If you'll spend a little time researching this site, you'll find that all I said and more is already available.
65,000 PSI
The Handi-Rifle is chambered in cartridges with chamber pressures up to and including 65,000 PSI (22-250). It is plenty strong for any rational cartridge.
I suspect Griff is just pulling your leg. I'm sure he knows that 50-110 pressures don't approach even half of what a Handi-Rifle can handle. But who wants to buy a 50-110 in anything approaching a modern firearm. That old offering is best suited for replicas of much older and finer firearms.
Now, you should remember this Rusty, when the Handi-Rifle is chambered for the higher pressured cartridges, those cartridges are fairly small in diameter (22-250, 270 W), which leave an awful lot of steel surrounding the case. I don't know, but I suspect that once you get into the bigger cases, with less steel surrounding it, that pressures it can handle safely will go down. I mention this only as a caution should be you thinking of blowing out 348 Winchester case and building a 65,000+ pressure cartridge to chamber in a Handi-Rifle. The Handi-Rifle is not chambered in any of the very big cased cartridges (like the big cased Weatherby cases). Anyway, that's my centavo's worth.
I suspect Griff is just pulling your leg. I'm sure he knows that 50-110 pressures don't approach even half of what a Handi-Rifle can handle. But who wants to buy a 50-110 in anything approaching a modern firearm. That old offering is best suited for replicas of much older and finer firearms.
Now, you should remember this Rusty, when the Handi-Rifle is chambered for the higher pressured cartridges, those cartridges are fairly small in diameter (22-250, 270 W), which leave an awful lot of steel surrounding the case. I don't know, but I suspect that once you get into the bigger cases, with less steel surrounding it, that pressures it can handle safely will go down. I mention this only as a caution should be you thinking of blowing out 348 Winchester case and building a 65,000+ pressure cartridge to chamber in a Handi-Rifle. The Handi-Rifle is not chambered in any of the very big cased cartridges (like the big cased Weatherby cases). Anyway, that's my centavo's worth.
Go to www.sskindustries.com for an answer to your concerns JD Jones was involved with the Encore design and then look at some of the ammo he chambers them for.Buy some Magtech 260gr jacketed flat point 454 casull ammo it has a stout recoil more so than 260gr Win Partition Gold & Hornaday SW460Mag ammoAJMD429 wrote:They do make the Handi rifle in 500 S&W, if that is an indication.
I've wondered the same about the Thompson Center Encore - some folks say it is horrifically strong and modern and all that, but I look at the way it locks up vs. the way the Ruger No. 1 locks up and can't believe that the Ruger wouldn't be way stronger.
Of course, unless I mess up in my reloading, I stick with way tamer loadings than some, and relatively tame cartridges - the .454 Casull is likely the 'hottest' I've got in terms of chamber pressure.
In the final estimation a falling block will be much stronger than a hinged gun, with all other factors being equal (action wall thickness, barrel shank diamiter etc).
This can be amply demonstrated when one looks at the really big Nitro Express cartridges. The chamber pressure has to be kept low as the thrust on the action face attempting to open the action is function of the case diamiter and the chamber pressure. In the grand old days when the English still were a preeminent manufacturer of big game rifles, chamber pressures were not even quoted, rather they quoted tons of base thrust.
The thrust in something like a handi rifle is trying to bend the two halfs out of alignment. In a falling block they are in shear.
Ruger #1's will tollerate horrendious pressures, far more than other designs. They are often used to work up experimental cartridges. 50,000 psi will not make a #1 blink.
From the left a 308, 444 marlin ,300 WM and 450#2 NE.
In a double rifle the 450#2 is 480 grains @ 2150 fps. In a #1 you can get that well over 2500 fps.
I have never worked on a modern Sharps, but if it is the equal of the #1 as has been said then I think you have your answer.
In any event I would think with the really big cartridges ones desire to fire the light weight handi would give out long before the action
Regards
This can be amply demonstrated when one looks at the really big Nitro Express cartridges. The chamber pressure has to be kept low as the thrust on the action face attempting to open the action is function of the case diamiter and the chamber pressure. In the grand old days when the English still were a preeminent manufacturer of big game rifles, chamber pressures were not even quoted, rather they quoted tons of base thrust.
The thrust in something like a handi rifle is trying to bend the two halfs out of alignment. In a falling block they are in shear.
Ruger #1's will tollerate horrendious pressures, far more than other designs. They are often used to work up experimental cartridges. 50,000 psi will not make a #1 blink.
From the left a 308, 444 marlin ,300 WM and 450#2 NE.
In a double rifle the 450#2 is 480 grains @ 2150 fps. In a #1 you can get that well over 2500 fps.
I have never worked on a modern Sharps, but if it is the equal of the #1 as has been said then I think you have your answer.
In any event I would think with the really big cartridges ones desire to fire the light weight handi would give out long before the action
Regards
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Andrew
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Re: 65,000 PSI
Ok, I am not as ignorant as I thought. I was thinking about the 22-250 being kinda hot and also chambered in the Handis. Wait, does this mean there might be hope for me?Idiot wrote:The Handi-Rifle is chambered in cartridges with chamber pressures up to and including 65,000 PSI (22-250).
