Breechseating??

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed May 07, 2008 1:13 pm

I was browsing last night and ran across a forum where there were talking about breechseating.

Is that what I think it is, they put a charged case and unseated bullet in the chamber and then tap it all in there?

Does this make for a more accurate shot?

Just curious, not going to try it.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Wed May 07, 2008 2:09 pm

Yes.. breach seating is an old time method..It is done by target shooters for the accuracy..They usually use stepped bullets that are made to fit the groove diameter/bore diameter..seated in the groove diameter throat with the bore diameter portion extending into the bore..The idea is for perfect alignment to the axis of the bore..usually done with a handled cartridge shaped tool that closely fits the chamber..Then the charged cartridge with wadding on top follows..This also allows, if one needs it, more powder in the case...The other old time method had the bullet started from the muzzle .....

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:04 pm

Here's what breech-seating tools look like:

http://personal.adiis.net/tenx/seaters.html

The top seater is the hand seater. As you can see behind the case are a coupla lock nuts so the seating depth can be adjusted to whatever depth you like. The reason for the offset of the main rod is so that it can be used with a scope. This is a home made seater, a knock-off of an Ideal seater they used to sell in the early 1900's.

The middle seater is the plug seater. It might be hard to see but just in front of the case you should be able to see a wooden plug. This of course will shove the bullet into the throat ahead of the case.

The bottom seater is a mechanical seater. You can't see it but the rod just behind the case has a hole thru it that can be turned to adjust the seating depth.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:20 pm

A lot of the schuetzen guys at South Bay use this method. They have a reloading box with tools and a powder measure attached, off they go.

It's very interesting to watch. One guy let me take a few shots and help with the loading. He used the same case the whole time I was with him, so of course he had a hand de-primer / priming tool. He didn't use a wad or filler though, but he was using smokeless powder that only filled the case about 1/3 to 1/2.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:37 pm

Once again, site members illustrate what a wealth of information is here, even on <gasp> non-levergun topics...

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:07 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Once again, site members illustrate what a wealth of information is here, even on <gasp> non-levergun topics...

+1 I have never heard of breech-seating before.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:13 pm

The great Harry Pope, of Pope barrel, Pope rifling & Savage/Stevens target shooting fame was one who popularized breech-seating, in the late 1800's, IIRC.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:20 pm

I have a custom Ruger #1 in .32-40 that I breech seat for. A breach seater is the tool you use to seat the bullet into the rifling and just deep enough so the charged case will chamber behind it. There is no craming needed and one case can be and is used to fire a group by de and re priming and charging for each shot.
With an NEI 170 gr PB bullet and 14 gr IMR 4227 I have fired 5 shot groups under 1/2" @100yd. with my rifle. Very slow but accurate as all get out!!

PS , My breech seater has compound leverage like a Rockchucker loading press and can seat hard bullets or gas checked if I want but all matches that one would enter are for PB bullets and fairly soft is the way to go.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:18 pm

IIRC...I believe Pope was in the Muzzle Starting School of practice..Started the bullet into the bore from the muzzle ....The idea being to avoid finning on the base of the bullet when the rifling engraved and thus more accuracy.... A more complicated system..They used a false muzzle that was placed over the true muzzle and located precisely on it with dowel pins...It was manufactured so it indexed to the rifling in the barrel...It was made from a piece of the same barrel ....The false muzzle had a lug on the same side that the barrel's sights were on.. so the target would be blocked if the shooter forgot to remove the false muzzle ..Pope was the most famous barrel maker back in the day..

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:23 pm

Ben is right, but Harry built them both ways as the customer ordered.
The book "Pope and his barrels" (wording may not be correct) is available from Wolf Publishing and a good book . Got mine several years ago.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:02 am

You will also read of "ringing" of the chamber where the wadding would contact the bullet base. Because of where this ringing would take place in the chamber, at the case mouth and below the bullet base, Pope said to ignore it as it affected nothing with his system. He was right of course, and some very good targets were shot with his system. Schuetzen targets were at 220 yards and shooting was standing or off-hand. Many of those fellows could shoot groups that you could cover with the palm of your hand.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu May 08, 2008 4:17 pm

I remembered reading about a shooter named C W Rowland..I think it was in "The American Rifleman" mag.. Talked about breach seating & muzzle starting and such, and a record that Rowland set that lasted for years and years..I googled him..The rifle, gear and targets are pictured in the below links..Would you believe bench rested 9/16ths inch 10 consecutive shots @ 200yds?(nearly 1/4MOA!!) or 10 into 3/8ths inch @ 100? C W Rowland also held off hand records too, but I don't know what size those groups ran..BTW he used the muzzle starting method

http://www.amoskeag-auction.com/64/30.html
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/64/32.html

Ken41 · Post by **Ken41** » Fri May 09, 2008 8:44 am

I have a CPA (Stevens 44 1/2) Schuetzen Rifle on order. Probably will not see it until Oct. or Nov. It will have 38-55 and 22RF barrels. I will have to say that this is most expensive firearm that I have ever purchased, and it is lever operated.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:27 am

Ken41 wrote:I have a CPA (Stevens 44 1/2) Schuetzen Rifle on order. Probably will not see it until Oct. or Nov. It will have 38-55 and 22RF barrels. I will have to say that this is most expensive firearm that I have ever purchased, and it is lever operated.

Ken41,
Those are beautiful rifles. I was looking at one on Gunbroker with envy, wishing I had the cash. It would have been over $6000 new, and never sold at $4200: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98030049
I'm sure you'll enjoy yours. Be sure to post pics when you get it. I have a Ballard Pacific and a Hepburn, both in 38-55, that I will someday restore and start shooting in Schuetzen matches.