.32 Winchester Special at the range

[Carlsen Highway]

Gentlemen,

My new pre'64 .32 Special has given my much thought since I got it, and I have been in need of wise counsel a couple of times, but today I broke through.


Originally I had no dies, but I managed to cobble together some 030-30 dies and an expander from a 8mm Mauser. This now seems to work alright for neck sizing the .30-30 cases. They give me enough neck tension as well.

But my first results at the range were poor. Very poor. I started with a black powder jacketed bullet load that I had shot in my .30-30 and quite accurately, 40 grains of 3F black powder and two grains of Universal as a primer to clean up some of the fouling shot into one ragged hole in the .30/30 so I tried that in the .32 Special, thinking it would do alright, since the longer twist rate of the .32 would help out even more.
Nope. Two - three inch groups at 25 metres was the result. I shelved the black powder until I can get a cast bullet mold.

I didn't have the smokeless powder I really would have liked last week, so I tried a smokeless load (from an ADI book) with H4198. This claimed some high velocity for itself in the book, but I was not impressed, I didnt see how it could be going faster than my .44-40, and it turned out it wasn't. No where near it. Anyway the rifle didn't like it at all - six inch groups at 100 metres. I shelved the H4198 powder.

I am still waiting on some factory Federal ammo to show up that I ordered, apparently it is coming by wagon train. So I set to with more reloading as best I could.

So I tried some Varget after finally getting my hands on some. This is the powder I use very successfully in my 1978 Winchester 94 in .30-30, and it shoots very accurately and gives top velocity. I figured if the .32 didn't like slow loads at all, maybe I should try giving it some pressure. I loaded up 37 grain of Varget with the 170 grain Hornady interlock, and shot the below target very carefully.




The first three shots went into one inch, the fourth making it a two inch group at 100 metres. I am very pleased with this indeed. I was thinking of rebarreling or recrowning and all kinds of ridiculousness considering I hadnt even fired any factory ammo in it. But sometimes I get that way....

[ollogger]

Looks like Varget is your powder for your 32 spl.& jacketed bullets, I've never giving Varget a thought in the 32 or 30-30
maybe I should give it a try, I use it in a 99 in 243 with good results




Brad

[Carlsen Highway]

With my .30-30 using Varget I can get it to shoot both 150 grain and 170 hornady's into 1.5 inches at 100m, with velocities of 2231fps and 2120fps. I recommend it. Have used in cartridges from the .222 Rem up to .30/06 as well,

[piller]

I may have to find some Varget. IMR 3031 has been my go to powder for the .30-30 since I started, but my Marlin. 336 does not like it.

[Tanqueray]

That is a fine result CH. MOA accuracy from an open sighted 60 year old lever action is beyond the majority of men who’d consider themselves a good shot.

[Nath]

Good stuff.
By the way, what kind of performance was the black powder load like?

N.

[Griff]

That is a fine result CH. MOA accuracy from an open sighted 60 year old lever action is beyond the majority of men who’d consider themselves a good shot.

I was almost going to take offense at this... then I realized you were talking about 60 year old RIFLES!!! Feelin' a mite touchy this am...

[Carlsen Highway]

Good stuff.
By the way, what kind of performance was the black powder load like?

N.

Nath,

The black powder load I tried was truly awful accuracy-wise, - 2 or 3 inch groups at only 25 metres - despite the same load working quite well in the .30-30 ironically enough. (three shots in one hole at 50 metres) But I was using jacketed bullets (because thats all I had) with 2 grains of a smokeless priming to clean up the fouling a little since I could not lube the bullets. I suspect that once I revisit blackpowder was a cast bullet sized a couple of thousands over bore diameter, or even just pure lead at .321 - that it will be a diiferent story.
More black powder exploration is still to come...

[Carlsen Highway]

That is a fine result CH. MOA accuracy from an open sighted 60 year old lever action is beyond the majority of men who’d consider themselves a good shot.

I am on a lone quest to convince the internet that Winchester 94 factory sights are excellent rifle sights. I have a Williams receiver sight, but I don't find it anymore accurate than the open sights with a bead at 100 metres anyway. Once the rear sight gets too blurry I suppose I will have to make the change,

[Nath]

Good stuff.
By the way, what kind of performance was the black powder load like?

N.

Nath,

The black powder load I tried was truly awful accuracy-wise, - 2 or 3 inch groups at only 25 metres - despite the same load working quite well in the .30-30 ironically enough. (three shots in one hole at 50 metres) But I was using jacketed bullets (because thats all I had) with 2 grains of a smokeless priming to clean up the fouling a little since I could not lube the bullets. I suspect that once I revisit blackpowder was a cast bullet sized a couple of thousands over bore diameter, or even just pure lead at .321 - that it will be a diiferent story.
More black powder exploration is still to come...

Sorry, my bad. I meant power wise?

N.

[Carlsen Highway]

I didnt have a chronograph with me (have to get a new one) but from experience I would put the velocity at around 1200 - 1300 fps. About the same as a .44-40.

[Nath]

I didnt have a chronograph with me (have to get a new one) but from experience I would put the velocity at around 1200 - 1300 fps. About the same as a .44-40.

Mediocre then.
Keep us up to date with the old girl

N.

[KWK]

I started with a black powder jacketed bullet load that I had shot in my .30-30 and quite accurately, 40 grains of 3F black powder and two grains of Universal as a primer to clean up some of the fouling shot into one ragged hole...

Tell more! What jacketed bullet and what velocity was given?

[Carlsen Highway]

KWK, in the .30-30 I was trying to duplicate the .32 Special black powder load - I used a 170 grain Hornady FN and loaded it with 2 grains of Universal (could use unique), and 40 grains of 3F Schuetzen (or 6 grains of H4227 and 32 grains of 3F Schuetzen powder. Compressed with the bullet and lightly crimped - shoots three shots into a single hole at 50 metres before fouling occurs and the bullets start wandering widely, velocity was 1250 fps.

The black powder load in the .32 Special is supposed to be 160 grain bullet at 1380 fps (from a rifle) according to the 1902 Winchester catalogue

BP clean up with the '94 is as easy as with my '73 - just pour some hot water down the bore and three patches and she is sparkling clean. Oil and done. Nothing in the action.

[EdinCT]

I use IMR 30-31 32 grs with a 170 gr jacketed bullet am and satisfied. I have shot 35 gr of 748 and it was a good load but it has been called temperature sensitive so I stay with 30-31. The 184 gr cast Lyman 321297 over 27.5 grs of 30-31 shoots well ,also 25 grs of R7 under the cast has shot well.
The black powder isn't a interest to me but I read a article where the writer tried it and got the same low velocities you mentioned. He then was given some 100 year old powder and it shot much better and gave 1384 just like Winchester said it would. I wouldn't use a jacketed bullet with black ever but a cast with a soft lube would shoot much better I have been told and for longer shot strings.
That is a beauty of a 32 by the way!

[KWK]

... I used a 170 grain Hornady FN and...

Thank you. One of these days I'll try something similar in my .30-40 and try to make a scaled down version of some of the BPE rounds developing just before smokeless was being introduced.

[Bill in Oregon]

Carlsen, I admire your persistence. That's a nice load you worked up. Forty years ago, my .30-30 go-to powders were IMR-3031 and H-4895. But I have rarely been disappointed by a Varget load in a number of calibers. Be interesting to see what you could achieve in .32 Special with LeveRevolution.

[Carlsen Highway]

Well this .32 spcl is turning into a roller coaster ride - I went back to the range today to reproduce this group and alter the point of impact also. I had made up a handful of the same loads, made exactly the same as the load above.

First thing I saw was my rabbit. This rabbit has been seen lurking about the little range where I shoot on and off for the last little while. I at first tried to nail him with my .22 and didn't get a shot, but after that I decided he could stay and so I have left him alone. I am pleased to see no one had got him yet. It will happen. Its a rifle range after all. But interestingly there are few hunters, mostly cowboy action shooting and pistol shooters, and virtually none of them hunt, so he is safer than you might suppose.

So that was fine. I headed up to put some targets up at 100 metres, to confirm that good load, as I said. So I got halfway up there, and found a pig there. Well I was the only person at the range, and a pig is a pig, so I went back to get the .32 and snuck up on him. (He was just too far round to get him from the bench rest) I got up to about 50 metres away, and shot at him three times offhand with the .32 and missed him each time. He wasn't a big pig so I was aiming for his head. But still. That pig should have been dead three times over. I saw myself shoot over him twice, and then under him once, and it was about then I started getting a bad feeling.
The pig, who obviously lived next to the range, was not disturbed by rifle fire at all. Perhaps because of where he lives, he is stone deaf. After I ran out of ammo, he decided to go and sit in the trees while I was around.

So with said bad feeling about my shooting, the rifle and the ammo, I shot three rounds off the bench at a 50 metre target and got a four inch group. I then shot a four round group at 100 metres which went six inches.

I have had good groups that turned out to be flukes before. Its possible that group pictured above is one of them. If you shoot ten rounds at a target, and then put a ring around the five closest, then you might claim it as a one inch group, but overall the whole ten shots might go four inches. You know what I mean. The giveaway is that the rifle will seem to have changed its POI of impact from one place to another. Actually its just shooting within a much larger dispersion area than you think. The pig is a good example.

I suspect it is the ammo since I am not even working with proper dies. I have now fiddled with everything and discovered that I don't have enough neck tension at all, the expander is expanding but the die is not pushing the neck down to make it tight enough - I cant use the 8mm die for this as the .32 cartridge is not long enough. I thought I did - but that was because the die set up was putting a minor false crimp in the end of the case mouth, making it feel like neck tension when seating a bullet....anyways the upshot is this die set up and ammo is not working for me.
I need to shoot some factory ammo as a control.
Still thinking about a recrown also, the bore is excellent but there is some tiny pitting right at the muzzle that I didn't notice at first, that might or might not be an issue. I could clean it up myself, but I am loath to do anything to the rifle untl I have tried some factory ammo in it, or some ammo made with proper dies.
I have a box of factory Federal on order, that they said was in stock, but its been two weeks now, it must be coming by wagon train.

[Bill in Oregon]

I sure would invest in a set of dies and kiss the crown with a round-headed bolt and valve grinding compound before proceeding with more expensive fixes.

[Nath]

Patience our friend, wait for the factory ammo for a control measure.

N.