possible new service pistol...

[1894c]

Hi - the LE Agency I serve is looking at the Sig Sauer P30 (Carry, Compact, and Sub-compact). Soooo, I just ordered a Sig P320 Sub-Compact in 9mm. Here are a few pics. I've already shot the Carry (with has a Compact slide on a full-size frame that holds 17+1) and the Compact (15+1). A very interesting auto, very module, the Sig Sub-compact is slightly bigger than a G-26....in the end I like this pistol a lot for a striker-fire auto, I like it better than any Glock I owned... :)

[rossim92]

can you get the extended mag for it? seems like your bottom two fingers would be under the mag butt

[1894c]

can you get the extended mag for it? seems like your bottom two fingers would be under the mag butt

The grip is longer than a Glock 26 so you can grip it with 3 fingers, although I never had any issues qualifying with a flush mag with the G-26. Also, like the Glocks you can use a 15-round, 17-round, or a 22-round mag, they all fit... the P30 sub-compact takes a 12-round mag, while the G-26 is a 10-round mag... :)

[AJMD429]

I love my Sig P938 ('mini-1911'), but have to admit, a double-stack version would be nice.

[jdad]

I have a 320 compact with the medium frame and a medium carry frame. The carry allows me to use the 17 and 21 round mags. Ergonomically it's a great pistol. Accurate also.

Bad news is the drop issue is real. I tried and duplicated it easily, so I am going to send mine in for the "voluntary upgrade".

[jeepnik]

I'm curious. Is you agency considering replacing your duty weapons because they are old and worn out or are they just flush with cash and want something new?
Or, are these to be issued to new officers and the old officers keep their older handguns until they have problems?

I understood when agencies began to transition to semi autos, heck I wondered why they hadn't done it years before. But one reason agencies gave for not doing so earlier was that the revolvers that were issued were still serviceable and the cost to transition would be very high.

[1894c]

I have a 320 compact with the medium frame and a medium carry frame. The carry allows me to use the 17 and 21 round mags. Ergonomically it's a great pistol. Accurate also.

Bad news is the drop issue is real. I tried and duplicated it easily, so I am going to send mine in for the "voluntary upgrade".

Yep, that is an issue, but Sig has fixed that issue that's why mine is "on the way", it'll have the up-grade fire control system. I remember when NYPD went to the Glock 19 in 1996. Glock had to fix 26,000 of them because they had a serious FTF issue, and remember the issues Glock had with the Gen4. So every gun has issues, at least they can fix them... ")

[1894c]

I'm curious. Is you agency considering replacing your duty weapons because they are old and worn out or are they just flush with cash and want something new?
Or, are these to be issued to new officers and the old officers keep their older handguns until they have problems?

I understood when agencies began to transition to semi autos, heck I wondered why they hadn't done it years before. But one reason agencies gave for not doing so earlier was that the revolvers that were issued were still serviceable and the cost to transition would be very high.

We've been carrying Glocks since 1997, and Glock has served us well, it's a great platform. What has caught our attention is that the US Army just replaced the Beretta M9 with the Sig 320. It's the ability to take the fire control system out of one gun and put it into a different size frame, change the cailber, the whole module thing. Otherwords I can buy one gun and buy separate frames, slides & barrels -- I can carry a full size service auto, thake out the fire control system (which is the serialized part, so that is the gun) and I can place it in a sub-compact frame and slide/barrel for off-duty.

Right now we're just looking--but this module concept is the wave of the future... Usually when a LE Agency adopts something new it all begins with price, and if and when a decision is made the old service weapons are usually traded in, but in some cases the LEO is able to buy their old service weapon. ... :)

Here is a link for your viewing pleasure: https://www.sigsauer.com/edu/meet-the-p320/

[jeepnik]

Okay, but I've seen modular firearms before. What usually happens is they get put into one configuration and left as such. Most cops I've met aren't "into" firearms. They aren't likely to spend time at the end of their shift switching their issue weapon from a full size to a compact size for off duty.

A few years ago I had a tenant that was a police officer. He had three handguns. All were glocks. A full size for uniform, a compact for plain clothes and a subcompact for off duty/backup. He owned no other firearms and didn't want to. Truthfully, had it not been mandatory he likely wouldn't have carried off duty. To him a firearm was a tool of the job and nothing more.

[1894c]

jeepnik -- you comments pretty much say it, I'm similar in that I have a G-19/26/43, but I also like trying out different handguns (as evidenced by my membership on this forum). I think the grip sizes are what's going to be attractive, instead of inserts, panels or whatever you have three separate grip sizes. But in the end I think the Sig P320 will make it's way into the holsters of many LE Agencies--
1). The US Military adopted it.
2). easy to convert from 40S&W, .357sig, to 9mm
3). the ergonomics are amazing
4). BEST striker-fire hammer I have ever used--ever
5). It's a great shooter, I've shot a P320 Carry a lot and I really hate to admit that I shot it better than my Glocks.... YMMV... :)

PS -- I still think a Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 in .30WCF makes a good patrol rifle.

[jdad]

I tried another shooters 320 that had the "small" compact grip module. It's hard to imagine that the ergonomics could be improved by a fractionally smaller grip, but it really did. The hard part is finding "small" modules.

[RustyJr]

My agency just switched to the Sig P320 in 9mm from a Glock 23 in 40S&W. While it does feel good in my hand, I am a Glock guy through and through. Glocks have been put through more $*** and have a proven record both in actual combat as well as on the streets with law enforcement. I have carried a Glock for the last nine years and will continue to do so when off duty. I know SIG makes quality weapons, but I'm stuck on Glock. If the chips are down and the stuff is hittin the fan I'll take my Glock 19 in 9mm for a handgun to bet my life on if given the choice.

RustyJr

[Sixgun]

Man, thats cool 30-30. My brain is still back in th single action revolver days.....other than 1911's and a few vintage Colts I have little to no experience with these new fangled semi autos.

I've "heard" that the sub compacts are prone to limp wristing.....any truth to that?-----6

[piller]

As they become better known, and probably more popular, the modules will become easier to find. I can see the usefulness of the system. I have both 9mm and .40 cal handguns, and this would sort of bridge the slight divide. Kind of like having a Glock 22 in .40 cal with an extra barrel in .357 Sig and one in 9mm with the Glock 17 magazines. The only difference would be the ability to move it to the compact size. I have the Glock 22 and the extra barrels. The ability to change from full size to sub compact is going to be useful only if the grip and slide/barrel uppers are significantly cheaper than buying a second gun. My barrels for my Glock were about $100 each, and are cut rifling with fully supported chambers. For me, it was the way to go. I effectively have 3 calibers which I can use one pistol. The best part is that the 9mm is cheaper to buy and shoot for practice, the .40 cal gives the option of heavier bullets for certain circumstances, and the .357 Sig gives more speed and penetration for times such as carrying when hiking in places where there might be hogs or black bears. Sort of how the .44magnum revolvers can use .44 special. Or the same with .357 magnum and .38 special. The Sig P320 gives a few more options. Options can be useful.

[Rusty]

My son's dept just switched over to the full sized P320s. They had previously been carrying G23s. So they have switched from the compact 23 in .40 to a full sized 9mm.

I'm at home recovering from shoulder surgery so I've had a lot of time on my hands. I spent half the day a few days ago watching Youtube videos on the P320. The one thing that stood out was when watching videos by Hickcok 45. He said in one of his videos that if he weren't so heavily invested in Glocks he could easily see himself switching over to the P320. I'd say that for someone that has done as many Glock videos as Hickok has over the years that is a pretty conclusive statement.

Oh, and by the way when Jr. qualified with his fresh out of the box P320, he scored a perfect 40 out of 40.

[jeepnik]

This is one of the freeing things about being a lowly civilian. Not being a member of the military or a policing agency, I can select the best handgun, not one that fits people with smaller hands (although mine aren't even that large), lesser upper body strength, or so mechanically challenged that they can't figure out a single action semi automatic.

Thus I can carry a 1911A1 in the much superior caliber of .45 acp.

One must wonder why, as several folks have mentioned, departments are downsizing from the .40 Short & Weak to the 9mm. Is the recoil too much for the smaller and weaker to handle? Wasn't reduced recoil why the FBI went from the 10mm to the .40 S&W?

[Rusty]

One must wonder why, as several folks have mentioned, departments are downsizing from the .40 Short & Weak to the 9mm. Is the recoil too much for the smaller and weaker to handle? Wasn't reduced recoil why the FBI went from the 10mm to the .40 S&W?
Jeepnik


From what I've seen, advancements in projectiles have caused 9mm to be as effective as the .45 was at one time. The 9mm also offers larger magazine capacity. Researchers have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a reliable one shot stop from a handgun. Stopping an aggressor requires multiple hits from a handgun no mater what caliber is used.

[piller]

The 5.56 NATO cartridge is significantly less powerful than the .30-06, but it has been used for years. The 9mm is smaller than the .45 ACP, but it has been able to use advances in technology to be able to do what is needed in a handgun in the last several years. I still prefer to start with a larger diameter bullet and twice the weight. Since I am not one who has access to all of the information used to study whether or not the hits were in the best place, how many shots were in the bad guy vs how many missed, et.c., then I must rely on the information which I do have available. That information shows me that the criteria used by the Federal Investigation Bureau is being met by the 9mm. Maybe it is less than ideal, but I don't want to be shot by any 9mm round if I have a choice. I don't want to be shot by any .45 ACP round, either.

The debate goes on, and probably always will.

[jeepnik]

The number of rounds it takes in a shooting to put someone down are just about impossible to accurately gauge. Most shootings involve multiple hits. So even if one would do, it's counted as say three because that's how many of the fired rounds hit the target.

Obviously we don't count misses. I've seen all sorts of percentage numbers for the rounds fired vs hits. The statistics are usually collected by someone sitting behind a desk who has never even fired a gun, much less fired one when someone else was shooting back.

[1894c]

9mm vs the .40S&W -- it all comes down to bullet placement, some shoot the 9mm better, they're more accurate with it. Plus, as someone stated the bullet technology has dramatically changed so the difference between the 9mm & the 40S&W is very close. I transitioned over to the 9mm from the 40S&W 5-6 years ago and never looked back... :)