Need help/ideas from a Subaru crank...

[Old Ironsights]

I've got this weird glitch in my 2001 Outback...

When hot (not overheated) if I shut the engine off it will not start again until it cools to some as of yet unknown and or arbitrary temp.

(We ended up involuntarily parked in Mitchell SD for 2hrs waiting for it to want to start again...)

The battery is good, all accessories power up, the fuel pump activates properly when the key is turned to "on", but the solenoid won't click over - at all - until it does and the engine starts fine.

I've got an OBD reader and it's not throwing any codes except for the stuffy Cat - which shouldn't have anything to do with it.

Any ideas before I start throwing money at swapping parts?

[Pitchy]

A few ideas.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Discussio ... 6_ds447270

[Ben_Rumson]

Had the same symptoms Buy a QUALITY BATTERY.

[gamekeeper]

I was thinking vapor lock but reading about the fuel temp switch I would change it, hope it ain't a pricey gizmo.

[flatnose]

Heat in a starter or solenoid or wiring to the starter will cause increased resistance for the current to flow through that circuit.
1. Make sure the wires at the solenoid and starter have good clean connections.
2 It is possible that you may have just a sticking solenoid when hot.
3. The windings inside the starter may be braking down.
4. Damaged or missing starter heat shield if originally fitted.
You can check the draw from the battery when trying to start hot, or have a garage check it for you

Check no1 first. If no luck replace starter and solenoid, and make sure any required heat shields are fitted.

[flatnose]

ps. If you can get to the solenoid when hot, try putting power directly from the battery terminal to the solenoid. if it starts then the motor is ok, and the problem is with the solenoid, or wiring to the solenoid.

[flatnose]

How many miles on that starter?

[Blaine]

What Flatnose said. My 73 F250 had owner-installed headers that were not shielded and would fry the starter with regularity. I'd go thru a starter about once a year with that beast. (one of the nicest trucks I owned, tho)

[Pitchy]

It`s still rolling they just left our place, I`m thinking starter too, it`s cool and raining so maybe that kept it cooled down.

[GunnyMack]

Buddy of mine recently had an issue with his Chevy pickup. Being a retired mechanic he figured it was the fuel pump, dropped the tank and replaced it. Truck was ok for a week or so then one morning he went to leave and it wouldn't start. About that time I stopped by to BS seeing the hood up. I asked what was going on, he explained it. I popped the fuse cover box open, found the fuel injector relay, (looked at all the other relays which were the same), swapped out the FI. With washer motor and it started. Swapped them back and truck didn't start. Then it started and you could feel the heat build inside the relay.

[Old Ironsights]

Great advice all. We'll test those theories at my in-law's place.

I'm hoping to have a good Hi/Low temp reading from the OBD the next time it fails then starts working again.

As far as the age of the starter.? 156k.

The battery is new last winter and tested ok under load and disconnected.

It doesn't seem to be a low voltage from the battery issue because it won't Jump either (tried with both cables and another vehicle and with a portable jump battery).

My money's on either the solenoid or the fuel temp sensor (Though i would think a sensor should throw a Code to the OBD...)

[vancelw]

As far as the age of the starter.? 156k.

My money's on either the solenoid or the fuel temp sensor (Though i would think a sensor should throw a Code to the OBD...)

156k? There is your problem. That Subaru is not broken in yet!

Solenoid don't cost much. Try it 1st.

[flatnose]

When you say it will not start when hot do you mean it will not crank over?
If so, do this test when hot and will not crank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIgD4FvguYE
If you still have voltage at the terminals, ie more than 12 volts, then the starter or solenoid is bad. Don't bother just replacing the solenoid or rebuilding it, replace the whole unit.
If you travel on average 10 mile trips, that starter has 15,000 cycles on it and it is probably pretty much done.
I just noticed something about stuffy cat in your post. If your cats are partially blocked, that will cause higher underhood temps, and can lead to increased starter resistance problems that you appear to have. It can lead to other problems as well, such as high fuel temp, head gaskets etc, etc, etc.
Dont confuse yourself with the obd tests for the moment. Keep it simple.

[rossim92]

yep, sounds like a weak starter not wanna work when it gets hot. One trick u can try, is that the starter might be on a weak spot in the windings after you cut it off. Had a chevy truck that did it. Had someone hold key in start position and tapped starter housing with hammer and it would start.

[cas]

I've changed 2 Subaru starers, far and away the easiest starters I've ever changed on anything. Though I don't know where they are now days, or on an '01 for that matter.

[Old Ironsights]

When you say it will not start when hot do you mean it will not crank over?

I don't even hear the solenoid click, much less the starter turn.

I just noticed something about stuffy cat in your post. If your cats are partially blocked, that will cause higher underhood temps, and can lead to increased starter resistance problems that you appear to have. It can lead to other problems as well, such as high fuel temp, head gaskets etc, etc, etc. ....

Replacing the Cat costs more than the best street price (much less trade) of the whole car WITH a good cat.

Fortunately, we don't emissions test, so it's not mandatory. Is there a way to remove it but still ensure proper back pressure?

[flatnose]

You need to get the motor hot so it will not start. If you disconnect the small wire to the starter, there should be voltage there when you turn the ignition key, test the terminal with a voltmeter or test light. If there is no voltage there, the problem is most likely not your starter motor of solenoid. See the video.

Removing the cats has no detrimental effect. In properly functioning cats, there should be very little if any back pressure. A test for a blocked cat is to measure the temperature difference before and after the cat using a infrared heat gun. If the exhaust pipe is hotter before the cat than behind the cat, there is a blockage. Cats can be removed and replaced with a test pipe, but they can also run a couple of hundred bucks.
Although you dont smog test in your area, it is still illegal to tamper/remove any smog devices that came with the vehicle, as there are federal requirements as well as the state requirements. Having said that, people do remove the cats.

[m.wun]

First thing to check is the ground where the cable is attached to frame or engine. Remove it and wire brush both areas. They can look tight and feel fine but when hot a little film of corrosion can separate the connection. Same at battery and sometimes a cable will be corroded internally. Look for slight bulges in the cables.

[mikld]

Electrical problems can be hard to trouble shoot (25 years as an Auto Electrician at LA DWP). When an electrical component heats up, things can expand and poor connections can open. Solenoids are known for this (also ignition coils, but modern auto engines have one coil per cylinder). If the engine doesn't crank when hot, I'd trouble shoot the starting circuit starting with the battery, battery connections, starter relay, starter solenoid and starter itself. Follow the power flow from the source (battery), and the control circuit from the ignition switch...

Another often missed item is the auto trans neutral switch.

[jeepnik]

Most of the stuff has been mentioned. But, check and see if there is supposed to be a heat shield installed between the engine and starter that is missing. Sometimes they are a bear to reinstall when changing a starter and folks or even shops will just leave them off.