Finnicky cartridges
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Finnicky cartridges
After almost 50 years of reloading ammunition, it seems like some cartridges are much more finnicky to reload for. As an example, I have worked on three different 300 Win. mag. rifles. All three were quite accurate, but each one liked only one load, and it was a different load with each one. One was an old Sako Finnbear that I passed on to my oldest son. With 180 gr. Nosler Partitions and IMR-4350 powder, it will shoot 3/4" inch groups at 100 yds. all day long. Everything else is lucky to make groups twice that size. The second is a Winchester M70 that does the same thing with 200 gr. Bear Claws and IMR-4831. The third is a custom M98 that would only shoot 165 gr. Sierra's withe H4831.
I have noticed the same thing with 4 different 30-30's (2-94's, 1-64, 1-336). I could always find a load that would work, but the sweet spot was very narrow and there weren't many loads that would work.
Two other cartridges I would add to this list would be the 270 Win. and the 375 H&H.
On the flip side, there seem to be other cartridges that handle a wide variety of loads very well. This group would include the 243 Win., 280 Rem., 30-06 Spfd., and 300 Wea. mag. The stars of this group would be the 25-06 Rem. and the 308 Win. I have never heard of anyone having a significant problem getting those two to shoot well.
I have a couple of others like my 348 Win. M71 that I just can't tell about due to the lack of variety in suitable components.
Maybe my experience is just unusual or my imagination is running away with me, but each of these calibers mentioned has been represented by at least three rifles, and some as many as six. Many of you have a lot more experience, so I'd like your input on what you have seen.
I have noticed the same thing with 4 different 30-30's (2-94's, 1-64, 1-336). I could always find a load that would work, but the sweet spot was very narrow and there weren't many loads that would work.
Two other cartridges I would add to this list would be the 270 Win. and the 375 H&H.
On the flip side, there seem to be other cartridges that handle a wide variety of loads very well. This group would include the 243 Win., 280 Rem., 30-06 Spfd., and 300 Wea. mag. The stars of this group would be the 25-06 Rem. and the 308 Win. I have never heard of anyone having a significant problem getting those two to shoot well.
I have a couple of others like my 348 Win. M71 that I just can't tell about due to the lack of variety in suitable components.
Maybe my experience is just unusual or my imagination is running away with me, but each of these calibers mentioned has been represented by at least three rifles, and some as many as six. Many of you have a lot more experience, so I'd like your input on what you have seen.
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Re: Finnicky cartridges
+1 for the .308 Winchester.
I will add 38 special and .357 magnum in pistol and rifle.
Also had good success with .405 WCF and .45-90.
I will add 38 special and .357 magnum in pistol and rifle.
Also had good success with .405 WCF and .45-90.
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Re: Finnicky cartridges
I don't know much about the 300 Win Mag, but I have had a bit of experience with the 30-30 Win. I've never fount it to be a finicky cartridge, actually I've found it to be just the opposite.
I've tried many loads over the years but way back in the 70s I found Win 748 powder and started using it with the 150 gr bullets. Never did have a 94 that didn't like this load.
Perhaps I'm just lucky.
Joe
I've tried many loads over the years but way back in the 70s I found Win 748 powder and started using it with the 150 gr bullets. Never did have a 94 that didn't like this load.
Perhaps I'm just lucky.
Joe
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Re: Finnicky cartridges
Mmmmmmm....I have sixty sets of dies of which some do multiple cartridges, and while I agree with you to a point, I think it's more of a "gun problem" than it is a cartridge problem. Yes, some cartridges are more finicky than others but in my experience, it's mostly the gun, usually due to barrel bands, forend pressure,leade, and rifling twist. Some cartridges only seem to run at top pressures while most operate at 1000-3000...
The more modern the cartridge, the less finicky it is...due to modern technology that keep tolerances within quality guidelines.
Most all cartridges that propel a bullet from 1500-2200 most always give "fair accuracy"...1-3" depending on sighting equipment and these guns are usually leverguns wth barrel bands and other things tha touch the barrel.
Never did have a '06, .308, 45-70, 30-30 that did not give acceptable accuracy within their acceptable velocity ranges.
Case in point....the 25 ACP,.....EVERYONE knows this to be a very inaccurate cartridge....but..if you put this cartridge in a Marbles adapter and shoot it in a 25-35, you can smack beer cans at 100 meters.
It's all very interesting .....that's why it's a lifetime job...you never get bored ---6
The more modern the cartridge, the less finicky it is...due to modern technology that keep tolerances within quality guidelines.
Most all cartridges that propel a bullet from 1500-2200 most always give "fair accuracy"...1-3" depending on sighting equipment and these guns are usually leverguns wth barrel bands and other things tha touch the barrel.
Never did have a '06, .308, 45-70, 30-30 that did not give acceptable accuracy within their acceptable velocity ranges.
Case in point....the 25 ACP,.....EVERYONE knows this to be a very inaccurate cartridge....but..if you put this cartridge in a Marbles adapter and shoot it in a 25-35, you can smack beer cans at 100 meters.
It's all very interesting .....that's why it's a lifetime job...you never get bored ---6
Re: Finnicky cartridges
That .25 ACP sounds like fun!
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Re: Finnicky cartridges
When I was building rifles each one I assembled would shoot the 'magic inch or less' except for one. That rifle is a .257 Ackley Improved, Mexican Mauser, Douglas barrel. This rifle will not shoot groups with any bullet in the inch area at 100. Most groups are around 2-2&1/2. The odd thing is this rifle is fantastically accurate from 200 and farther. This is the only barrel I did NOT fit/chamber or turn. I picked it up cheap from a shop in Raton NM, short chambered and turned.
I've tried everything from 75 gr hp to 120 sp and all the same accuracy.
It's been a real head scratcher!
The 300 Winchester with that short neck is usually what gives folks consistencies problems. Also leade(throat) can cause problems for load development.
Oh the fun in load development!
I've tried everything from 75 gr hp to 120 sp and all the same accuracy.
It's been a real head scratcher!
The 300 Winchester with that short neck is usually what gives folks consistencies problems. Also leade(throat) can cause problems for load development.
Oh the fun in load development!
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Re: Finnicky cartridges
Interesting observations.Sixgun wrote:The more modern the cartridge, the less finicky it is...due to modern technology that keep tolerances within quality guidelines.
Most all cartridges that propel a bullet from 1500-2200 most always give "fair accuracy"...1-3" depending on sighting equipment and these guns are usually leverguns wth barrel bands and other things tha touch the barrel.
Never did have a '06, .308, 45-70, 30-30 that did not give acceptable accuracy within their acceptable velocity ranges.
Case in point....the 25 ACP,.....EVERYONE knows this to be a very inaccurate cartridge....but..if you put this cartridge in a Marbles adapter and shoot it in a 25-35, you can smack beer cans at 100 meters.
It's all very interesting .....that's why it's a lifetime job...you never get bored ---6
I wonder if there is an 'inherent accuracy' difference between 'straight-wall' versus 'bottleneck' cartridges, or if the case-capacity to bore diameter ratio affects things as far as finickiness....
I have a Ruger M77-V in 6mm Remington I don't shoot often enough, but when I carefully weighed IMR-4831 and used neck-sized internally-neck-reamed brass, I'd get cloverleafs at 100 yards. However the load was slightly compressed, so when a friend popped by unexpectedly and wanted to shoot it, I just 'dipped' some cases in a bowl of powder to fill them to the brim, then dumped out 'a little' powder to about the base of the neck. I explained to him those loads wouldn't be very accurate, but we just wanted to put some rounds downrange since he lived in the city and hadn't gotten to shoot in months. Off we went, and since the gun was fairly heavy, we shot from the bench like 'normal', and were surprised to find that in terms of accuracy, the gun shot . . . . cloverleafs . . . . maybe 'bigger cloverleafs' than when charges were weighed, but five shots would still be covered by a nickel.
Pretty cool.
I almost got a 16" Encore rifle barrel in 25 ACP once, but decided on a 300 Blackout instead. I thought the 25 ACP would be cool to max-out in the rifle format.
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Re: Finnicky cartridges
Doc, I really don't think there are any inaccurate cartridges. I still say it the guns that chambered in them.---6
Re: Finnicky cartridges
I find the 25-20 hard to get to group well with reloads, I have a 1892 with an original barrel with a 9.5 out of 10 with a mirror bore, shoots original Winchester jacketed loads and cloverleafs at 50 yards but I have yet to hand load with success, I have tried 87 grain lead and Hornady 60 grainers with diferent loads, I won't give up, will give it another go this year.
I have a CL Marlin and Martini in 218 BEE no trouble, all my other calibers I have no trouble with being finicky- 45-70, 32-40, 243, 44 magnum, 38-40, 32-20 are great to reload, just the 25-20
I have a CL Marlin and Martini in 218 BEE no trouble, all my other calibers I have no trouble with being finicky- 45-70, 32-40, 243, 44 magnum, 38-40, 32-20 are great to reload, just the 25-20
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Re: Finnicky cartridges
I had a 25 acp that was very accurate, relatively speaking. 7 yards is not far, but considering the microscopic sights on it, I had a Beretta that when sandbagged would put the whole magazine in one blurry hole.
Mentioning the 300 Blackout.... 300-221, 300 Fireball, 300 Whisper... I've owned 4(?) single shot pistols, one single shot rifle, one bolt action rifle and 3 AR's in it and not a one of them would do any better than 1MOA.
Mentioning the 300 Blackout.... 300-221, 300 Fireball, 300 Whisper... I've owned 4(?) single shot pistols, one single shot rifle, one bolt action rifle and 3 AR's in it and not a one of them would do any better than 1MOA.
Slow is just slow.
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Re: Finnicky cartridges
Finicky - 25-20, 308
Not finicky - 6 mm, 25-06, 270 Win, 30-06, 444, 45-70
Not finicky - 6 mm, 25-06, 270 Win, 30-06, 444, 45-70
Re: Finnicky cartridges
Still working on the 348 Win load development. Hands down, the most difficult I have come across to get good accuracy. A 22-250 gave me a fair workout, until I started using IMR4064 and win760.
Easiest has always been the 30-30 and 45-70. 45-70 has lots of loads and different powders that will be acceptable to very good accuracy.
Easiest has always been the 30-30 and 45-70. 45-70 has lots of loads and different powders that will be acceptable to very good accuracy.