A Change for PA hunters

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Rusty
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A Change for PA hunters

Post by Rusty »

It looks like hunters in Pa. will now be allowed to use semi automatics for hunting.

http://timesleader.com/news/630480/game ... or-hunting
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by walks with gun »

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RIHMFIRE
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by RIHMFIRE »

I just got a place to hunt in western Pa....... :wink:
still going to use a lever or bolt gun though..
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Sixgun
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by Sixgun »

Dang Rusty.......you know more than me and I live here! I gotta start paying attention to what's going on.......all this Trump stuff with his excellent nomination for SCOTUS has had me captivated.

At first I was against the semi auto thing but I was not thinking.....heck, we have been using semi auto shotguns since like...forever. We have been losing hunters big time for the last 5-10 years and we all know money talks...this semi thing will put the young boys in the woods....good.

In my area, it's shotguns only so nothing really changes. Upstate in the mountains there are not a lot of deer left but those good ole boys up there hunt about anything so they will like it.

Ya know what the coyote hunters will pay about anything for.......that now just changed? Remington Police 760 pumps in .223 that take AR mags are going for a thousand dollars....I know, buddy of mine had me locate one for him last year and he "bit the bullet" paying a grand for it. Looks like the price on those just dropped about $600 :D ......probably don't have to worry about hearing from him for awhile.---6
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6pt-sika
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote:Dang Rusty.......you know more than me and I live here! I gotta start paying attention to what's going on.......all this Trump stuff with his excellent nomination for SCOTUS has had me captivated.

At first I was against the semi auto thing but I was not thinking.....heck, we have been using semi auto shotguns since like...forever. We have been losing hunters big time for the last 5-10 years and we all know money talks...this semi thing will put the young boys in the woods....good.

In my area, it's shotguns only so nothing really changes. Upstate in the mountains there are not a lot of deer left but those good ole boys up there hunt about anything so they will like it.

Ya know what the coyote hunters will pay about anything for.......that now just changed? Remington Police 760 pumps in .223 that take AR mags are going for a thousand dollars....I know, buddy of mine had me locate one for him last year and he "bit the bullet" paying a grand for it. Looks like the price on those just dropped about $600 :D ......probably don't have to worry about hearing from him for awhile.---6
With this coming down I wouldn't be surprised if Remington's production of the 760 or whatever model they call it now comes to a screeching halt . I was talking to a factory rep ten years ago and he told me the only reason they still made the 760 was for the PA market . He claimed PA hunters bought 95% of those manufactured .
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by Sixgun »

6 Point.......yep....there are more pump rifles of every make, model, caliber, and vintage around here than you can shake a stick at. We get old Remington 25's, 14's, 141's, 760's in most all calibers showing up regularly. Don't see too many 25's or 14 and 1/2's as their production numbers are low. Even Colt Lightnings medium and small frames show up enough for me to get em in all calibers.

Remington 760's shoot as good as a bolt gun...I've shot enough of em---6
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

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6pt-sika wrote:With this coming down I wouldn't be surprised if Remington's production of the 760 or whatever model they call it now comes to a screeching halt . I was talking to a factory rep ten years ago and he told me the only reason they still made the 760 was for the PA market . He claimed PA hunters bought 95% of those manufactured .
THAT is why sometimes even the 'gun lobby' (i.e. gun manufacturers) actually have supported 'gun control' and things like semi-auto or 'high-capacity magazine' bans... sometimes it increases their sales or control of a market niche... :|
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote:6 Point.......yep....there are more pump rifles of every make, model, caliber, and vintage around here than you can shake a stick at. We get old Remington 25's, 14's, 141's, 760's in most all calibers showing up regularly. Don't see too many 25's or 14 and 1/2's as their production numbers are low. Even Colt Lightnings medium and small frames show up enough for me to get em in all calibers.

Remington 760's shoot as good as a bolt gun...I've shot enough of em---6
There's a little gun shop outside of Williamsport in a place called Hughesville . The place is called Dugans Gunshop , well that is if it's still open . Anyway they had a veritable PILE of most anything that was used during the gun season in PA for the last 100 or so years . As to the Lightnings I always thought it would be nice to have a large frame in 50-95 !
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OldWin
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by OldWin »

They sell a pile of 7600's up here too. They are everywhere. Many are cut down if they weren't the carbine version to begin with.
Guy I know has one in 35 Whelen that is cut to 17".:shock:
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by Rusty »

I wonder if the popular appearance on the scene of what some want to call the MSR, or Modern Sporting Rifle doesn't have something to do with it. The AR-15 can be had in a wide variety of calibers these days. Everything from a .204 Ruger to the .458 SOCOM.

FWIW the initial information on this came from Guntalk Media.
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by GunnyMack »

Yup, the great pumpkin army will go afield with black guns this fall.
Just goes to show that some politicians actually listen to the voters...
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by 41 Redhawk »

Keep in mind that yesterdays vote was an initial vote. The final one takes place in a couple of months. Included in that reg is a 5 round magazine limit. I was actually surprised to see the reg in this years business. All estimates was for semis to be allowed for small game and varmint hunting with big game to be looked at later. Perhaps the PGC actually started looking at the facts and listening to hunters.

Something else new this year in the same set of regs is allowing air rifles for small game hunting.
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by GunnyMack »

Here across the river they allowed air guns a few years ago for small game. I think they even changed the regs for using rifles for predators.
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by shortwheels »

Well good for the PA hunters, something new is always good, now you will hear on opening day 7or8 rapid fired shots and wonder did they hit it ??
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by Merle »

41 Redhawk wrote:Keep in mind that yesterdays vote was an initial vote. The final one takes place in a couple of months. Included in that reg is a 5 round magazine limit. I was actually surprised to see the reg in this years business. All estimates was for semis to be allowed for small game and varmint hunting with big game to be looked at later. Perhaps the PGC actually started looking at the facts and listening to hunters.

Something else new this year in the same set of regs is allowing air rifles for small game hunting.

I'm in Mercer County and my only interest for semi autos is for coyote hunting. Sometime you get the whole pack to come in - that's where rapid fire is useful. :shock:
Last edited by Merle on Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by Steelbanger »

Doesn't matter to me because I will still be hunting with my leverguns and cast bullets. I usually load three in the magazine although it holds about a dozen or so. I like to get off one s l o w good shot.
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by piller »

Some people will try to hit the animal with the first shot, and for those people, it probably won't matter whether it is a bolt, lever action, pump action, or a semi auto. I would be worried about the ones who have never hunted before and will go out by themselves without any knowledge of what they are doing just because they can use a semi auto. Hopefully that will be a very small number.
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41 Redhawk
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by 41 Redhawk »

Here is a pretty good article from a local newspaper writer explaining the hows and whys of what is going on. It contains some good information.

http://blog.triblive.com/wild-outdoors/ ... explained/
Semiautos in PA’s woods: A decision explained

You’ve probably heard the news by now: Pennsylvania Game Commissioners on Tuesday gave preliminary approval to allowing hunters to use semiautomatic rifles and air rifles in the woods starting this fall.

In the case of semis, the guns would be legal for all seasons, including those for big game, i.e. deer, bear, elk and fall turkeys.

But have you heard why?

Commissioners explained their decision at their board meeting.

Several said that the safety record of hunters using semiautomatics was a big part of it.

Commissioner Bob Schlemmer of Westmoreland County, for one, admitted he was initially skeptical about allowing semiautomatics in the woods, especially during busy times like deer season.

Hunters commonly use the guns elsewhere, though. Pennsylvania is the only state in the nation that, to this day, has not permitted their use on some level.

So commission staff looked at their impact in all of the states surrounding Pennsylvania, said Tom Grohol, director of the bureau of wildlife protection. They also examined their use in states – like Michigan, Wisconsin and others – that pack hunters on the landscape in densities similar to Pennsylvania.

The use of semiautomatics proved to be of no concern anywhere, Grohol said.

“We found no correlation between the way a weapon is loaded and hunting accidents,” added commissioner Tim Layton of Somerset County.

“That really pushed it forward to make my final decision,” Schlemmer said.

Commissioners also considered the word of hunters who suggested “we don’t need it so let’s not do it,” said board member Jim Daley of Butler County.

“But because you don’t absolutely need it – we’ve hunted with repeating firearms forever – is not a reason to prohibit it,” Daley said.

Many hunters – even those using lever-action 30-30s – carry guns now that hold six or more rounds. They can choose to be safe or not, he said.

Allowing them to carry a semiautomatic with the same number of rounds should make no difference in their behavior, Daley noted.

“It’s not the way we load the gun. That’s not what causes accidents,” said commission president Brian Hoover of Delaware County.

Commissioner Charlie Fox of Bradford County said the hang up with some hunters – and non-hunting members of the public — appears to be the the image of AR-style rifles being used. But semiautomatics have been around in various forms for 100 years.

This is a chance for sportsmen to educate those people about how hunters can use any and all firearms safely, he said.

“I think public perception is the greatest hurdle to get over. They have a lot of fears,” Fox said.

“We have to look at this as an educational opportunity.”

Of course, it’s the idea of allowing semiautos in the big game woods that most worried some.

Commissioners had initially suggested months ago that they might allow them only for small game and varmints, namely predators and groundhogs.

Most of the public bought into that.

Daley said that support for allowing the guns to be used for those species was near unanimous. Support for allowing them for big game was what he termed “more diverse.”

Opposition seemed to be demarcated by age, though, said Hoover. The older a hunter was, he said, the more likely they were to oppose the change.

In the end, commissioners decided the safety record of hunters supported just allowing semiautos overall.

“Pennsylvania, our hunters are slow to change, our agency is slow to change. And I think most of us thought, we’ll be slow on this one, too, we’ll do it incrementally,” said commissioner Dave Putnam of Centre County.

But realizing that the state was the last to prohibit semiautomatics, for no good reason in terms of safety, changed that thinking, he added.

“I think it became easier as we became educated. It became easier to see that, let’s just do it and be done,” Putnam said.

They did put a “sunset” provision into the regulation change. If they give things final approval later this spring, semiautomatics will be legal from July 1, 2017 to June 30, 2020. At that time, the board would have to re-evaluate the rule and decide whether to make use of the guns legal permanently, Layton said.

In the meantime, they’ll continue to promote the idea of an ethical, humane hunt being one that involves “one shot, one kill,” as they always have, Fox said.

“That first shot is the one you’ve got to make count,” said Daley.



The specifics of the rules

Here’s a look at all the details of the proposed rules regarding semiautomatic and air rifles.

And that’s what they are, proposed. Commissioners have to give all this final approval at their next meeting on March 27-28 before it’s official.

They’ll take public comment between now and then, so hunters can still weigh in by writing letters, making phone calls or sending emails to pgccomments@pa.gov.

When it comes to semiautomatic rifles – and shotguns – hunters would be permitted to use them for hunting big game, small game and furbearers. They could carry six rounds, one in the chamber and five in a magazine.
Legal magazines will be those capable of holding five rounds, too. It wouldn’t be permissible to just put five rounds in a 30-round magazine.
Semis for small game hunting must be .22 caliber or smaller rifles firing single-projectile ammunition and shotguns 10 gauge or smaller propelling ammunition not larger than No. 4 lead, No. 2 steel or No. 4 composition or alloy.
There is no caliber restriction for semis used for woodchucks or furbearers.
In all cases, full metal jacket ammunition will remain illegal for use on big game, said Rich Palmer, deputy executive director of the commission.
As for air guns, they would be legal for small game in calibers from .177 to .22 that propel single-projectile pellets or bullets.
For woodchucks and furbearers, air-guns must be at least .22 caliber and propel a single-projectile pellet or bullet.
In no seasons can BB ammunition be used.
In a change from what was originally suggested, nowhere do the rules make any mention of minimum muzzle velocities or foot pounds of energy for air rifles. That’s because those things are too variable to control, said Tom Grohol, director of the commission’s bureau of wildlife protection.
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by Merle »

piller wrote:Some people will try to hit the animal with the first shot, and for those people, it probably won't matter whether it is a bolt, lever action, pump action, or a semi auto. I would be worried about the ones who have never hunted before and will go out by themselves without any knowledge of what they are doing just because they can use a semi auto. Hopefully that will be a very small number.

That is already a problem in some areas - and you can really crank out the rounds with a lever or a pump, so I don't see much of a change there. Almost all the other states allow semi auto, without any problems.

Kind of reminds me of the "blood bath" predictions of the antis when concealed carry first goes into effect - that hasn't happened either. :roll:
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

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I was one of those "semi-older guys" who originally opposed semi autos for deer, then.....I put my Italian thinking cap on. ......I live in a "special regulations" county where it's been shotguns only for big game since I was young,in the sixties. Semi auto shotguns have always been legal throughout the state for small game and big game...in the special regulation counties.....semis only for small game in the rest of the state......Delaware Co., parts of Chester Co....now all of Chester Co., Philly,co, and The Pittsburg area counties.

Hunting small game has always been more dangerous than big game as we used to walk 5 in a line sometimes approaching other hunters 5 in a line. When a pheasant jumped up, guns were a blazing, all semi autos, pumps and double barrels. We never paid any attention to the semi auto guys, we watched where we were shooting. So there's should be no difference upstate in the deer woods with semi auto rifles.

When I first started hunting in 1966 my dad would take me to the cabin up in Centre Co. and the woods were full of hunters, mostly WW2 vets and some of those guys used their M1 carbines and Garands...illegally of course but those were the days. It was nothing to hear 2-300 shots in the first 2 hours of hunting on opening day. Nowadays, there's very little shooting upstate.....they are all down my way, eating bushes in front of most people's houses at nighttime. They got to be so tame I stopped hunting deer for the last 15 years.-----6
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by tman »

It gives me an excuse to buy an AR 10, but I will still ending up hunting with a 71 .348, or the SRC 86 cause, to me, it's a hell of a lot cooler. But, that AR 10 would be fun to blast away with. :twisted:
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by fordwannabe »

I Will be using my 458socom this fall. Because now I can.
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

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Sixgun wrote:I was one of those "semi-older guys" who originally opposed semi autos for deer, then.....I put my Italian thinking cap on. ......I live in a "special regulations" county where it's been shotguns only for big game since I was young,in the sixties. Semi auto shotguns have always been legal throughout the state for small game and big game...in the special regulation counties.....semis only for small game in the rest of the state......Delaware Co., parts of Chester Co....now all of Chester Co., Philly,co, and The Pittsburg area counties.

Hunting small game has always been more dangerous than big game as we used to walk 5 in a line sometimes approaching other hunters 5 in a line. When a pheasant jumped up, guns were a blazing, all semi autos, pumps and double barrels. We never paid any attention to the semi auto guys, we watched where we were shooting. So there's should be no difference upstate in the deer woods with semi auto rifles.

When I first started hunting in 1966 my dad would take me to the cabin up in Centre Co. and the woods were full of hunters, mostly WW2 vets and some of those guys used their M1 carbines and Garands...illegally of course but those were the days. It was nothing to hear 2-300 shots in the first 2 hours of hunting on opening day. Nowadays, there's very little shooting upstate.....they are all down my way, eating bushes in front of most people's houses at nighttime. They got to be so tame I stopped hunting deer for the last 15 years.-----6
The first time I did the deer opener in Wayne and Monroe county PA I heard about 130 shots by 9AM . To you guys that might not sound like much , but you gotta take into consideration in VA on opening day if I heard a dozen shots by 10 AM that was a lot .
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by OldWin »

I don't hear a dozen shots all season. :lol:
And we can use anything but full auto.
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Re: A Change for PA hunters

Post by Rusty »

I bought my first Colt AR-15 in 1977. From the factory it came with 2, 20 round magazines. Both magazines had a "U" shaped piece of sheet metal in them that limited the mags to 5 rounds. There was also instructions on how to remove the "spacer" so that the mags could be loaded with a full 20 rounds.
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