Food For Thought
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Food For Thought
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FYI - The following is from An Alternative Look at Handgun Stopping Power by Greg Ellifritz.
Greg is a 20-year veteran police officer in central Ohio, president of Active Response Training, and an adjunct instructor for the Ohio Peace Officer’s Training Academy.
IOW, he’s been around the block.
He gathered information on as many shootings as he could to increase the accuracy of his conclusions.
Because the .327 Fed Mag is such a new round (2007), it’s not in his compilation of observed shootings. However, the .32 ACP/.32 Long is. Since the .327 is much more powerful, we are able to draw some conclusions based on the .32 ACP/Long performance.
We sometimes forget just how powerful modern guns are.
Even the "wimpy" .22 LR performed well, even though most would never consider that for a self-defense gun.
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FYI - The following is from An Alternative Look at Handgun Stopping Power by Greg Ellifritz.
Greg is a 20-year veteran police officer in central Ohio, president of Active Response Training, and an adjunct instructor for the Ohio Peace Officer’s Training Academy.
IOW, he’s been around the block.
He gathered information on as many shootings as he could to increase the accuracy of his conclusions.
Because the .327 Fed Mag is such a new round (2007), it’s not in his compilation of observed shootings. However, the .32 ACP/.32 Long is. Since the .327 is much more powerful, we are able to draw some conclusions based on the .32 ACP/Long performance.
We sometimes forget just how powerful modern guns are.
Even the "wimpy" .22 LR performed well, even though most would never consider that for a self-defense gun.
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Re: Food For Thought
I concur with your findings--we transitioned back to the 9mm because there is now not much difference between the .40S&W and the 9mm--this is mostly due to bullet design, plus many shoot the 9mm better than the 40 and shot placement is critical... :)
Re: Food For Thought
The 32 stats are pretty amazing considering that most would agree that it's not even a marginal round.
was there any other info on bullet type or composition?
was there any other info on bullet type or composition?
Re: Food For Thought
I'm not a math geek, but I believe the numbers can be skewed by how many times a certain caliber is used.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
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Re: Food For Thought
Looks as if shot placement is pretty important. Practice really helps that. Enough practice and your body will react without any conscious thought.
I really don't want to get shot with anything. I have no desire to be another statistic for analysis.
I really don't want to get shot with anything. I have no desire to be another statistic for analysis.
D. Brian Casady
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Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: Food For Thought
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The findings are not mine - I'm simply passing them on.
Greg did not provide projectile/boolit information in his testing, and his study consisted of a limited number of recent shootings - only 25 for the .32, while there were 106 for the .357.
But, he feels it’s still enough to get an idea of relative performance.
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The findings are not mine - I'm simply passing them on.
Greg did not provide projectile/boolit information in his testing, and his study consisted of a limited number of recent shootings - only 25 for the .32, while there were 106 for the .357.
But, he feels it’s still enough to get an idea of relative performance.
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Re: Food For Thought
Hmmm... no numbers for the 45Colt? Methinks the data is skewed! It's a plot to keep folks for knowing just how effective this 140 year old cartridge really is!!!
Griff,
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Re: Food For Thought
I still like 148 gr hollow base loaded with the hollow facing forward!
Also 12 ga, open choke and #4's, NOT buckshot in th house!
Also 12 ga, open choke and #4's, NOT buckshot in th house!
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
Re: Food For Thought
Nah, the old 45 Colt is just fine, and dandy. It's the Old fanny burbs that use them that are unreliable.Griff wrote:Hmmm... no numbers for the 45Colt? Methinks the data is skewed! It's a plot to keep folks for knowing just how effective this 140 year old cartridge really is!!!
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Re: Food For Thought
A cartridge could average 1.5 rounds to 'behavior-change' if half the time one round did the job, and half the time it took two, but..........the only way an average rounds result could be less than one is if the 'mere display of the firearm' was enough..............so, if you take that chart and figure "1" to be the bottom - or 'maximum effectiveness', rather than "0", it shows the relative differences per cartridge more clearly.
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"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: Food For Thought
Kind of odd how the .22 did so well. I guess it's like real estate. Location, location, location.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
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Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
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Re: Food For Thought
Yes. Also, the "number of rounds required" is not definitive since I doubt in any of those scenarios did the shooter pause to ascertain if the target was incapacitated, so whether or not follow up shots were "required" is really unprovable. Considering 9mm is so popular with LEO and bad guys alike, and multiple rounds is doctrine for LEO and sop for driveby's, you are correct.BlaineG wrote:I'm not a math geek, but I believe the numbers can be skewed by how many times a certain caliber is used.
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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Re: Food For Thought
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IMO, the various thoughts expressed are interesting, to say the least - discussions & POV's are great !
Keep rolling on..........
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IMO, the various thoughts expressed are interesting, to say the least - discussions & POV's are great !
Keep rolling on..........
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Re: Food For Thought
It goes without saying that shooting a charging bear/hog is different from shooting a charging Human. In humans, there's not much to penetrate to get to all the really important parts.
The results of my very unscientific telephone book tests are that as far as handgun shooters go, a .44 mag 180 grain hollow point has got to be the most destructive instrument. 125 grain hollow-point .357 is probably next. I also put the .45acp 230 fmj in the same class as the 357, as the jacket usually comes off, the razor sharp pieces raise heck, and the soft lead spreads out and makes a Yuuuge hole out the back. But, telephone books aren't people. My very first EDC was a S&W 317 AirLite and the plan was to deploy 8 Stingers in a couple seconds into The Big Part. I thankfully never had to do that, but I'm fairly certainly of what the results would have been.
The results of my very unscientific telephone book tests are that as far as handgun shooters go, a .44 mag 180 grain hollow point has got to be the most destructive instrument. 125 grain hollow-point .357 is probably next. I also put the .45acp 230 fmj in the same class as the 357, as the jacket usually comes off, the razor sharp pieces raise heck, and the soft lead spreads out and makes a Yuuuge hole out the back. But, telephone books aren't people. My very first EDC was a S&W 317 AirLite and the plan was to deploy 8 Stingers in a couple seconds into The Big Part. I thankfully never had to do that, but I'm fairly certainly of what the results would have been.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Re: Food For Thought
Thanks for posting. Except for rifles and shotguns being more effective than handguns, the results are not exactly what I would have expected.
Have you hugged your rifle today?