POLITICS - America is dying.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:32 am

I think some of you are missing the point.

I love the Black Knight in Monty Python...after they've chopped your arms and legs off, start biting off knee caps!

That I can do my friend.

I also believe in the scpriture. But until the Lord comes I'll be locked and loaded.

Johnny

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:08 am

I also believe in the scpriture. But until the Lord comes I'll be locked and loaded

+1000 I love that line

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:32 am

In the long run, hard times are good for a people as a whole. If we are not challenged, we do not grow.

One of the big limitations of humanity is that we tend not to innovate for no reason. We need adversity to motivate us.

I want to be prepared for hard times ahead (and right now the economy looks like it might take us there) but I don't fear them.

I'm 27, and I've never really been challenged as I grew up in a very cushy age. A little bit of adversity might be good for me. If I don't die, that is. But if I die, all my earthly troubles are over.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:16 pm

old time hunter nailed it. without a strong middle class you end up with a bannana republic. 8th grade economics; mining, farming and manufactoring are essisential to a strong economy. until we return to this process the country will deterioate. as less people can afford to support themselves, more government programs funded thru higher taxes will be heaped appond the shrinking working class. government will step in, giving you enough to survive, while severely limiting your freedoms. until the reps and dems, conservates and liberals stop dividing themselves over trivial difference and demand our country back it will continue to errode. judging from the intelligent exchances from this forum alone, i think we can do it. stop letting THEM divide us. let's go after THEM and demand our country back.

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:06 pm

Charles wrote:The spirit of Chicken Little lives on!

Right on Charles. Fifty (25?) years from now no one will remember this or care. When the going gets tough real Americans get going. The defeatists moan and cry in their beer.

Now don't forget you all, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling."

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:22 pm

BAGTIC wrote:
Charles wrote:The spirit of Chicken Little lives on!
Right on Charles. Fifty (25?) years from now no one will remember this or care. When the going gets tough real Americans get going. The defeatists moan and cry in their beer.

Now don't forget you all, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling."

And the pompus speak of belittling others. It never seems to amaze me.

Is that why I've heard numerous times of how good we had it "back then"? Is that why we can look down this board at the multiple POLICAL issues that are being fought, tooth and nail, to be held on to? Were Americans discussing these issues 25 even 50 years ago?

Johnny

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:16 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:Based on Kensian economic theory for every 'rich' entity, three must fail. Therefore is it safe to assume that for every new wealthy or affluent winner in our society, there might be three losers? Most likely the losers are the ones falling from middle class down to lower income.

There are several 'schools' of economic thought/theory, and Keynesian has been popular among politicians who favor socialism to some extent, but the so-called 'Austrian' economic theories have proven for decades to do a much better job of explaining human behavior, choice-making, and serving as a guide for public policy.

This article discusses the waning Keynesian movement, http://www.mises.org/story/2924, and this one rather bluntly dissects the opinions of Paul Krugman, a leading Keynesian, http://www.mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1318, and this article discusses (albeit a bit dryly) the origins of the Austrian school of economics, http://www.mises.org/etexts/austrian.asp.

The Mises Institute, http://www.mises.org/, has many other introductory articles on the Libertarian (or 'Classical Liberal' if you like) economic theories, http://mises.org/literature.aspx?action=subject&Id=1, many in the form FREE e-books.

Worth checking out!

As far as doom-and-gloom vs. hope on this thread, if you look at history, there have been relatively few stress-free intervals; usually a famine, plague, or constant warfare is the NORM. Too bad, perhaps, but Mother Nature and God seemed to have partnered on this one and locked it in pretty well to human's nature. Occasionally, people of unusual intelligence have risen to the forefront, 'thrown off their shackles,' and created societies strong enough to be stable, powerful enough to be secure, and fair enough to not incite rebellion from within. The natural course of events seems for the less intelligent, less hard working, and less fair-minded to gain control for their own ends (socialism eclipsing capitalism) which is 'cute and fun' for awhile, as the various political factions get turns at the trough. Soon the inefficiency of top-down micromanagement, and the resentment created by socialist economic policy, result in insurmountable instability and the society collapses.

What happens next depends on who picks up the pieces - resilient and self-sufficient citizens, or troops from a neighboring nation, for instance.

We just have to 'deal with it' since we were born in the 20th Century, just like those born in earlier centuries had their world issues and events to survive. Teach your children well, including technology, history, and basic survival skills, and they'll do as well as they can, with whatever comes down the pike. We've been spoiled for the past 4 or 5 generations, and all good things eventually come to an end.

OUR part for the present is to try to delay calamity, and try to have ourselves and our children positioned to deal with those challenges when they come. It is NOT to 'give up' and resign our progeny to being drones in a socialist police state. If that society materializes, it will be our fault for not voting in the RIGHT candidates to office, not holding their feet to the fire on freedom issues, and for many of us, spending too much time on frivolities instead of participating in what is left of our political process.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:06 pm

Well there Doc, I must say that was a very sobering and remindful of how trivial it is to look just to the now without accepting the responsibility of the next generations. That being said and after reading the links you so generously provided, it just confirms Keynesian economic theory in that we live in a paper money world. The Austrian economic theory is actually based on more of the Feudel economic model in that are the owners the financial world and dictate the distribution of wealth based on their needs, not societies. Yes, it does accept more of a 'modern' enlightenment, but I personally would fear that this is mearly a patronizing diatribe not rooted in equal opportunity. The world has struggled with fairness since the beginning of time, but has always ended up with a division of haves and mostly have nots. Those that have will always use those that have not, to further their own greed above their peers, to do this they need power, whether that is through a government entity via 'laws' and 'regulations'(this includes the Draconian method of threat), or by preying on the lack of secure neccessities of life, or by hanging the proverbial carrot in front of their faces ...it is all the same. Call it a Totalitarian, Socialistic, or a Capitalistic society it is all the same, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. For a short time in history we were fortunate to have an opportunity to take a break from this continous cycle, that opportunity came in the expansion of America, where a person that did not want to partake in the normal society had an escape to the frontier. Their price to participate was the risk taken, but their success drove the powers that be to reign in that freedom, it just took a few generations to do that. 'Course that chapter has been closed for awhile now, we relish it's existance as a birthright but it really has become nothing more than lipservice now. We are back to getting our backs whipped to produce more wealth and power for the ruling class. They that have the GOLD make the RULES....er, the Golden Rule.

Dastook · Post by **Dastook** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:14 pm

As I would agree things do look bleek right now, I hold out on the side of hope. "OMG", I sound like Barack Obama. Really, I do think there is a great resposibility for those individules like those of you on this forum to take up the reigns and get this country on the right track. We are not in the minority. When it really gets down to the truely tough times the goodness and conservative ways of all God fearing folks can prevale. God Bless the US.

Pete Moss · Post by **Pete Moss** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:53 pm

Whatever you do don't let gun grabbers get Canadian on you.

model55 · Post by **model55** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:34 pm

Just like so many we seem to have forgotten history-this has been my worry for some time like so many of you.I always wonder what will be that defining moment when it all falls apart or when enough will be enough.We for the most part have forgotten how to depend on ourselves and I have to include myself there-a shame.Politicans be ----!-well you know where I'm going with that.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:35 pm

GANJIRO wrote:â€œAnd in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite" (Daniel 2:44)

My sentiments exactly...thanks Ji!

LeverBob

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:40 pm

Scott64A wrote:It is simply unfolding according to Scripture.

The move toward the Amero and the Euro will soon give way to a One World Government. all politics will not be local any more, and the individual will be crushed under the wheels of "progress".

Satan, laughing spreads his wings.

You can bet that the sky will open up and for the self-righteous and nonbelieving, the passing of the Age will be very painful to say the least.

Did you actually think we could go on with no change and not face destiny as God has laid his plans? It will be realy hard to hold fast and allow God to work here; we might have to lose a LOT to gain something. Be prepared to scrabble out your sustenance brothers, and stay true.

It is better then have faith in the Lord than any nation or government, these things pass while the former has been and will always be.
He knits and knits the fabric of Creation together according too His plan even as we sleep and are born and then die. How to acclimate the human brain with all of its limitations to God's plan?

Faith.

Chin up, Satan will not prevail. It will be on earth as it is in Heaven one day.

Don't be afraid of losing your status as a carnal critter. We are not just these lumps of clay; most of what we are exists outside of the physical realm, and that is where most of the war has been and will continue to be waged.

Another well done..Scott...you couldn't be more right!

Leverbob

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:50 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:For a short time in history we were fortunate to have an opportunity to take a break from this continous cycle, that opportunity came in the expansion of America, where a person that did not want to partake in the normal society had an escape to the frontier.

Isn't it amazing how the confluence of things led to this nation? Think about it; a natural-resources-rich continent (due to its being) inhabited by a relatively low population of low-tech tribal cultures. Then across an ocean (which importantly was at the time still a very difficult journey) you have a technologically advanced culture, just getting firearms (see this post IS 'on topic'

) to the point of mass production and available to the masses. Add to that enough 'masses' ready to get the heck out of their oppressive homelands, and all of a sudden you get a once-in-a-millenium opportunity where a bunch of like-minded people (rebels, freedom-lovers, entrepreneurs) basically get to 'start from scratch' and design a nation.

I think if we'd stopped in the late 1800's with most of our technology, we'd be doing better though.

My son was five, talking to a relative 5,000 miles away using a cell phone, and I realized he was standing in front of a picture of my grandfather, who was five when general Custer was killed. Expecting ANY culture to absorb that much technologic change in three generations (maybe five in most families) is a tall order, unless you assume there will be much social upheaval.

"In the Absence of the Sacred" is an interesting book on that very topic worth reading. http://www.amazon.com/Absence-Sacred-Fa ... 0871565099 (His book, 'Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television' is also a classic!)