How often have you seen this Win 94 configuration?

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I don't think I've ever seen what appears to be an at least 26" octagon rifle with a carbine forewood and band. How common were they?

Six, you ever seen one?

[Griff]

I don't think I've ever seen any octagon bbl with a barrel band. Have you taken the band & forend off to see if there's a tenon cut on the bottom of the barrel?

[J Miller]

That ... is ... interesting.

It's obviously been like that for a very long time. If it's not factory, someone did a lot of work on fitting it all together.

Joe

[Sixgun]

Nate,
It appears to be all standard except for that carbine forend......no......I've seen plenty of the reverse such as rifle butt plates on SRC's.......some of those are hard to prove.

I saw an 1894 SRC "takedown" at a show some years back at an astronomical price and laughed. The owner did not like my "Donald Trump" attitude until I showed him the differences between an original and his back room alternation.

It relatively simple to prove it's originalness. (is that a word?). Look to see if the bottom of the barrel has a dovetail in it where the tenon fits and the forend cap of a rifle screws into. Wait.....you probably don't have the rifle in your hands. Well, anyway, it's a pretty much of a simple job to change forends by carving out the wood and bend the barrel band to fit the octagon barrel......it's not so simple to fill in that dovetail to make it look undetectable......unless it was welded and refinished......many years ago.

Then there's the dimple on top of the mag tube that the carbine screw rides on.

But......anything can happen. Upstate over the weekend my good friend Cimarron Red had his 1894 Winchester in 30-30 that has a factory stainless steel barrel on it......and......it's octagon not round. Never saw one before or even heard of one. Leroy Mertz also never saw one. I saw this rifle at least 20 years ago when Gary showed up at a match and we did not know each other at the time......yea......I "tried" to rob him of it. I tried again over the weekend, but to no avail.

Then there's the elusive 33 Winchester barrel that's octagon. I hear one or two is out there but never did see a picture.

As the day goes on I'll check my sources to see if anything like this was ever original.-----6

Edit.....just saw Griff's response and he said first what I said in a lot less words but still got the job done.

[Pete44ru]

.

Sadly, it'll probably take a Cody Letter ($$$) to know for sure how it left the factory.............

It looks kinda neat, though - I like it.


.

[Griff]

.

Sadly, it'll probably take a Cody Letter ($$$) to know for sure how it left the factory.............

It looks kinda neat, though - I like it.


.

IIRC, you can only get a detailed letter if it's below 383,xxx...

[Sixgun]

I just got done looking through several of my most detailed Winchester books...no mention of it ever happening. I saw several rifles with carbine buttstocks that were original along with rifles with saddle rings, but not even the slightest mention of a carbine forend on a rifle.

An old collectors saying......"When in doubt, do without"-----6

[Mike Hunter]

Steve

I'm 99.9% sure that it's not the original configuration, but in the .1 % chance that it's ledgit, look to see if the barrel band is machined for an octagon. if not, it's bogus.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Steve

I'm 99.9% sure that it's not the original configuration, but in the .1 % chance that it's ledgit, look to see if the barrel band is machined for an octagon. if not, it's bogus.

I think you and Six are probably right, 1% maybe. I just just never say never when it comes to antiques Wins.

I really would like to get my hands on it but;

Winchester Model 1894 Rifle Octagon barrel 25-35

[Sixgun]

Nate,
While I'm not the most knowledgeable guy on antique Winchesters....far from it.....there are guys who eat, sleep, and breathe the stuff. (I almost do )

If there was any kind of originality to that gun whatsoever I can 100% guarantee that there is a guy watching that auction and would have hit the "buy button".....(if there is one). Even with the negative condition of the rifle, a serious knowing collector would ask the seller for the full serial number so he could "yellow letter" it and get instant clarification as to originality.

The pictures look like the saddle ring is "right" as to placement and condition but I have seen more than a few rifles with saddle rings...some original, some not. Without actually getting a micrometer on the gun, it's hard to tell.

To my knowledge there has never been an octagon barreled carbine of any model from the 66 to the 95 so it is really hard for me to believe Winchester would make a special barrel band for a carbine forend on an octagon barrel. If.......and a big IF..........if someone had the clout to have such a special order barrel band made, he would have also gotten better wood, takedown, special sights, trigger, etc........not just a saddle ring and a carbine forend.-------6

[J Miller]

Well, from a non-collector point of view, it looks to me like someone took a SRC and grafted on a rifle barrel / magazine and butt stock.

Don't look too bad though.

Joe

[jdad]

Nate,
While I'm not the most knowledgeable guy on antique Winchesters....far from it.....there are guys who eat, sleep, and breathe the stuff. (I almost do )

If there was any kind of originality to that gun whatsoever I can 100% guarantee that there is a guy watching that auction and would have hit the "buy button".....(if there is one). Even with the negative condition of the rifle, a serious knowing collector would ask the seller for the full serial number so he could "yellow letter" it and get instant clarification as to originality.

The pictures look like the saddle ring is "right" as to placement and condition but I have seen more than a few rifles with saddle rings...some original, some not. Without actually getting a micrometer on the gun, it's hard to tell.

To my knowledge there has never been an octagon barreled carbine of any model from the 66 to the 95 so it is really hard for me to believe Winchester would make a special barrel band for a carbine forend on an octagon barrel. If.......and a big IF..........if someone had the clout to have such a special order barrel band made, he would have also gotten better wood, takedown, special sights, trigger, etc........not just a saddle ring and a carbine forend.-------6

I agree with what you're getting at. It also seems odd that the seller has not made public any questions that may have been asked.......and I'm sure there have been some. If we're questioning it you know there are a whole bunch of people watching it that have the same concerns.