Winchester 94 BB 444 Marlin

[daisygordoninc]

Anyone know what the twist rate on my Winchester BB in 444 Marlin would be. I don't think it is the Timber model, just a regular 94 BB angle eject. I'm wondering about stabilizing 265 gr FTX bullets.

[Pete44ru]

.

I misremember the twist on the one I had 15 years ago, but I do remember that it shot handloaded Hornady regular 265gr JSP's just fine.


.

[AJMD429]

6pt-sika will likely chime in soon; he's the 444 Marlin expert here I think...

[Old Savage]

I am sure 265s will do fine. I have had 444s in Marlin and Win. Both shot them very well. I believe the Marlin was 1 in 38".

[765x53]

I believe the 265 grain Hornady was designed for the .444.

[william iorg]

My Winchester Timber Carbine has a 1 in 12" twist. There two twist rates. Some early rifles were reported with slow twists.
My rifle shoots the 310 grain Lee bullet very well.

[Old Savage]

My Marlin was very accurate with 310 cast but keyholed heavier bullets.

[william iorg]

My Marlin was very accurate with 310 cast but keyholed heavier bullets.

I think most of us came up with about the same result with the 1 in 38" twist. The Winchester with 1 in 12" will shoot the 330gr bullets but will not drive them very fast.

It seems like a long time ago that we were all scratching our heads and swapping info on the 444 Marlin. We seemed to naturally break into two groups, over 300 grain and 300 grain and under bullets. I am with the 300 grain and under group. My friend Russ - a retired commercial loader in San Angelo - was in Walt Meanders camp and his custom 444's are just getting started at 300 grains.

Most of the old links no longer work but here is one about that which still works

https://www.shootersforum.com/leverguns ... twist.html

[sore shoulder]

The Winchester 444's had several twist rates. I had a deluxe AE with the tighter twist I don't recall exactly but I think low 20,s. I think Paco wrote an article on this subject. You can find the twist by running a cleaning rod down barel, count rotations, divide barrel length by turns.

[sore shoulder]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/444.htm

I made a couple mistakes earlier, this is the article. I read that 10 years ago when I had a deluxe model 94 BB AE with the 1/12. Another member I haven't seen for awhile named tworow has/had it since then.

[daisygordoninc]

Great article, that answered most of my questions, love this sight, so much experience to draw from.
I plan to take my Winchester BB 444 Marlin to BC for bear and moose this fall. Looking forward to
loading it.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika will likely chime in soon; he's the 444 Marlin expert here I think...

I dunno I never much cared for the Winchester 444's .

I can get 375 grain cast to shoot well enough in the old Marlin 1-38 at 100 yards for hunting so I see no reason they wouldn't be fine in a Winchester . In the Marlin's with Ballard rifling I think it's 1-20 and I get 450 grainers to shoot well enough for hunting to 100 yards .

[6pt-sika]

Great article, that answered most of my questions, love this sight, so much experience to draw from.
I plan to take my Winchester BB 444 Marlin to BC for bear and moose this fall. Looking forward to
loading it.

Get a mold for the Ranch Dog 432-300GC cast it of straight WW's and water drop them . Push it with about 50 grains of H322 . That should knock the fire out of a moose at most reasonable distances .

The Ranch Dog 432-350GC also pushed with about 45-48 grains of H322 also worked well for me . But I think my MM/RD 432-325GC I kinda like a skoosh more . Also like the BRP/RD 432-375GC I came up with a few years back . I also had a mold cut for the MM/RD 432-365GC that I've yet to blood , but it shoots very nicely in my circa 1966 Retro 444P with a 19" 1-38 Micro barrel pushed with a stout load of H322 of course .

It's been my somewhat biased experience that H322 , IMR8208 , XMR2015 , VV N-130 , W748 and Western X'Terminator all work pretty well with 200-375 grain cast in the 444 . It's also been my experience for cast over 390 grains RL-7 works the best .

[william iorg]

I use both the “FPS per grain of powder” and Ken Howells efficiency formula to compare powders against each other. Hodgdon 322 easily exceeds 58 fps per grain of powder with top loads and runs 65% efficient which is comparable to other powders operating at the higher load levels.
If it had not been for the residue left in the chamber with the straight wall cases I would have been very happy with Hodgdon 322.
I found Hodgdon 4198 to have a slight velocity advantage over Alliant Reloder 7 with the standard weight bullets but about the same accuracy potential.
Did you find any “Magic” in Exterminator? I found Exterminator to be a useful powder delivering top performance but did not receive any significant velocity increases over otherpowders as reported by some.

[sore shoulder]

I use both the “FPS per grain of powder” and Ken Howells efficiency formula to compare powders against each other. Hodgdon 322 easily exceeds 58 fps per grain of powder with top loads and runs 65% efficient which is comparable to other powders operating at the higher load levels.
If it had not been for the residue left in the chamber with the straight wall cases I would have been very happy with Hodgdon 322.
I found Hodgdon 4198 to have a slight velocity advantage over Alliant Reloder 7 with the standard weight bullets but about the same accuracy potential.
Did you find any “Magic” in Exterminator? I found Exterminator to be a useful powder delivering top performance but did not receive any significant velocity increases over otherpowders as reported by some.

I am not surprised 4198 works well in 444, it is by far my favorite powder for 45-70, and very forgiving and consistent.

[6pt-sika]

I use both the “FPS per grain of powder” and Ken Howells efficiency formula to compare powders against each other. Hodgdon 322 easily exceeds 58 fps per grain of powder with top loads and runs 65% efficient which is comparable to other powders operating at the higher load levels.
If it had not been for the residue left in the chamber with the straight wall cases I would have been very happy with Hodgdon 322.
I found Hodgdon 4198 to have a slight velocity advantage over Alliant Reloder 7 with the standard weight bullets but about the same accuracy potential.
Did you find any “Magic” in Exterminator? I found Exterminator to be a useful powder delivering top performance but did not receive any significant velocity increases over otherpowders as reported by some.

X Terminator pretty much fell right in there with the ones I mentioned and several others . I tried IMR4198 a bit and while it was ok it never caught my fancy . The little Hitler on MO in the Pacific Northwest claimed the only powder to use was H4198 that unto itself was enough to make me not care for H4198 . I had pretty decent results with VV N-120 , 130 and 530 although they can be hard to get sometimes . The first bullet I EVER loaded for the 444 was the no longer made Nosler 250 grain Partition Gold and I pushed it with IMR4198 . My first attempts with cast in the 444 were pushed with XMP 5744 and it worked relatively well on paper and deer . Shortly there after I went on to shall we say higher octane powders and groups shrunk PDQ . For awhile there I'd try most any powder that was loosely what the bill called for and usually they would all work . For awhile there I was going thru an 8 pounder of H322 a year . But now I shoot not quite as much as I was . It's been my experience that all those 444's I had or have all pretty much shot the same loads pretty much the same . You just needed a fat enough bullet and push it hard enough .

[6pt-sika]

I use both the “FPS per grain of powder” and Ken Howells efficiency formula to compare powders against each other. Hodgdon 322 easily exceeds 58 fps per grain of powder with top loads and runs 65% efficient which is comparable to other powders operating at the higher load levels.
If it had not been for the residue left in the chamber with the straight wall cases I would have been very happy with Hodgdon 322.
I found Hodgdon 4198 to have a slight velocity advantage over Alliant Reloder 7 with the standard weight bullets but about the same accuracy potential.
Did you find any “Magic” in Exterminator? I found Exterminator to be a useful powder delivering top performance but did not receive any significant velocity increases over otherpowders as reported by some.

I am not surprised 4198 works well in 444, it is by far my favorite powder for 45-70, and very forgiving and consistent.

I liked H322 in the 45-70 as well . Did nicely with the RD 460-350 and 460-425
. When I got the BRP 462-465GC mold BaBore told me to push it hard with H322 and it shot very well . Had a BallistiCast 462-550GC mold that also did very well with H322 . I suppose it's like anything else if for some reason you prefer something you'll try harder to make it work .

[Old Savage]

I like 322 for both. I do not try to push velocities in either.