OT - Gettysburg's new visitors center

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:59 pm

For the civil war buffs, just wanted to let you know that the new visitor's center opened in Gettysburg this past monday. IT IS FANTASTIC!!! Spent hours there today. Really enjoyed seeing the firearms and such, but the new displays were much more informational thanthe past and the facility was fantastic. As I toured it today, I realized on this date, in 1861, Virginia declared its independence from the union. Seeing the sharps, the firearms, and gear, really pulled together the meaning of combos. As always, as I walked the battle field, I heard the calling of the ancient in me, the voices of the past, the movements of the military units, and the sights, sounds and smells of this hallowed ground are felt at my very core. It is as if I was there. It is always a moving experience for me. It is one of my favorite places . Blessings

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:11 pm

That was one of my entrance inspection projects. I've since changed job locations and have only seen the outside of the building but it looks great.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:13 pm

I am waiting with baited breath to get there! Can't wait and thanks for the heads up.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:45 pm

I spent a week there with my father some 5 years ago.
Gave me enough time to vist different parts of the battle field several times and sit there and read the excerts of each battle fought and let it sink in.
Everyone should make it a point to go there.

stormspotter · Post by **stormspotter** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:19 pm

My wife, daughter and I spent a couple days there in 2002. It makes you do some serious thinking as to what happened there.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:17 pm

Incredible, just plain incredible. I cannot believe that I only live about 125 miles from there and have never visited it. I am a poor American

As the Lord as my witness, I will visit there this summer.

Funny thing, I only live 5 minutes from the Brandywine Battlefield and I've only been there a couple of times. I play in the same woods that George Washington and his troops fought in and seldom think of what happened there while I am woods loafing. My wife is friends with George Waymouth, the famous painter who lives in a house that was once an Indian trading post on the Brandywine Creek. Still, I don't give it much thought. I really ought to be slapped in the head or maybe get my head out of these Winchesters. -------------Sixgun

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:44 pm

Hope to see it. My great, great, grandfather was wounded there. He was with I belive the 2nd volenteer infantry co D Wisconsin, "the iron brigade".

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:20 am

i've been wanting to go back there for some time. I was there as a kid and thought it was one of the most amazing places I'd ever seen.

My G-Great Grandfather was there with the 3rd Indiana Vol. Cav.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:33 pm

Mike -

Thanks for letting us know. Last time I was in Gettysburg was about 15 years ago. My children are now old enough that they would enjoy the trip and get something out of it. Will have to plan this one for next summer or sometime soon!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:35 pm

Also for those that don't know, the battle at Gettysburg lasted from July 1 through July 4 on the main battle field, and the last shot/casulty was on july 7 as the north followed loosely the retreat of the southern army. Every July 1 through 4, the town is filled with reenactors who redo the various battles that compose the complete battle of Gettysburg. It is an amazing week of events and a perfect historical weekend for family. Add to that the proximity of Hershey Park, Lourdes Caverns, Harpers Ferry, Appalachian trail, hiking, camping, water sports, minor league baseball, etc, it could provide a wonderful family vacation. Any on this forum who get this way, let me know. I love meeting forum members.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:52 pm

rjohns94 wrote: Any on this forum who get this way, let me know. I love meeting forum members.

Mike,
How come when we met, you told me you hated my guts.

Hey, for real, in the near future I need to ask you what would be a good plan for a one day event at Gettysburg. I don't want to get bogged down a half day looking at stupid stuff.------Jack

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:21 pm

Jack,

I was so happy before you flashed those pics of the brace of 1851's that I just had to have and set me back 10C's. VBG But I am much happier now (if you are of the mind set that things can make you happier). with the 1851's in my possesion.

I enjoyed meeting you and I am looking forward to burning some powder with you.

If you want the full impression of the battle, Iwould start at the visitors center. Do the movie. In september, the cyclorama will be complete and available. The movie is a bit biased and skewed but gives a sense of the mood. Then tour the exhibits which give a before the war, a chronology of the war, and the impact of the war. Take three hours to do this part. You can have lunch there or any one of the pubs (I like the farnsworth ) that are on the main drags there. Then do either a battlefield tour. You can get a car cd to give you a self guided tour and saves you some money over a guide. The battle field is very marked. Also available is the Eisenhower farm where Dwight grew up. It is available via a bus ride of 5 mins from the visitor center.

The visitor center has many firearms on display (but not as many as they used to). The car tour will take a few hours depending on the version. By the end of it, you will have a true sense of the battles. There are plenty of shops in town that offer original weapons for sale if you are interested in that. The theater puts on civil war production plays through out the year.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:44 pm

Mike,
Thanks very much!

And yes, I am of the mindset that I am happy when a guy buys my guns, that he enjoys them, not just a guy who wants to make a profit. In other words, a good home and I know those '51's are going to have a happy home while in your possesion! (a little sick, ain't it?--a good home)
Anyway, I am going to take your advice in hitting the visitors center first. I hope to do this gig during my first of 7 weeks of vacation this coming May. (its great being a Teamster!) I would like to do it in several days but my wife is a day tripper and with 18 million animals that she has also puts in the "one day" category.

Thanks buddy,------------Jack

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:42 pm

bogus bill wrote:Hope to see it. My great, great, grandfather was wounded there. He was with I belive the 2nd volenteer infantry co D Wisconsin, "the iron brigade".

Yea, Well...my great great grand-pappy said yours shoulda ducked faster!!!!

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:46 pm

I need to come back again soon...
I hope it is not an "interpretative" center. Several of the renovated centers in the south were changed from "history" to "interpretations" of the events.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:53 pm

bogus bill wrote:Hope to see it. My great, great, grandfather was wounded there. He was with I belive the 2nd volenteer infantry co D Wisconsin, "the iron brigade".

My great-great grandfather was there (as well as many "cousins"). He was in the 134th New York. Shot on the Jul 1st, he lay on the battlefield at the brickyard, until the 5th. The bullet entered 2" above his right nipple and exited just below the right shoulder blade and hit NO BONE. That saved him. I suppose one can survive a simple Â½ inch hole through and through. He lived until 1920. I have stood about where he was standing when he was shot/wounded. Others from our family, 44th New York, were killed at Little Round Top.

In my wife's and son-in-law's families, there are several who were killed, wounded and/or captured at Gettysburg. They were fighting for the "other" side...

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 pm

Very interesting story Hobie!

General Longstreet wanted to fight a guerilla type battle at Gettysburg and during the remainder of the war (kind of what we faced in Vietnam and now in Iraq). It was his theory that the North would grow tired of the casualities and expense and eventually negotiate a peace. (Funny how history repeats itself).

General Lee said that type protracted ambush war would leave 2 bitter countries. He believed someone had to win the war, out and out and by clear victory. He felt the contest would be decided at Gettysburg..... South wins, then we march on and capture Washington DC...... North wins, then retreat back to VA and wait for the inevitable.

In many ways we all owe a debt to R.E. Lee for this insight. We could have ended up 2 countries with a guarded border (North and South Korea).

General Longstreet never forgave Bobby Lee for Gettysburg. Many of my family knew the General in his later years. He died in 1904 and is buried just down the road in Gainesville, GA.

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:22 pm

Hobie wrote:
bogus bill wrote:Hope to see it. My great, great, grandfather was wounded there. He was with I belive the 2nd volenteer infantry co D Wisconsin, "the iron brigade".

My great-great grandfather was there (as well as many "cousins"). He was in the 134th New York. Shot on the Jul 1st, he lay on the battlefield at the brickyard, until the 5th. The bullet entered 2" above his right nipple and exited just below the right shoulder blade and hit NO BONE. That saved him. I suppose one can survive a simple Â½ inch hole through and through. He lived until 1920. I have stood about where he was standing when he was shot/wounded. Others from our family, 44th New York, were killed at Little Round Top.

Little Round Top led by Chamberlain was the North's finest hour. If your folks had given that ground, us Rebels could have flanked the Northern lines and the battle may have ended differently. You have a Proud Heritage.

We always wondered who those stubborn son of a biscuiteaters were........
Guess I know a real live one!

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:30 pm

bogus bill wrote:Hope to see it. My great, great, grandfather was wounded there. He was with I belive the 2nd volenteer infantry co D Wisconsin, "the iron brigade".

That is something to be very proud of. I doubt you could find a harder fighting brigade than The Iron Brigade. The Battle of Gettysburg would have been very different if it wasn't for their sacrifice on day one.

~Michael

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:37 pm

JohnnyReb wrote:
Little Round Top led by Chamberlain

Led by Col. Strong Vincent, originally of the 83rd PA. He took the initiative and put the brigade on Little Round Top, and my county's 83rd PA and the 44th NY did as much as the 20th Maine to hold that hill.

~Michael

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:42 pm

Slick13 wrote:
JohnnyReb wrote:
Little Round Top led by Chamberlain
Led by Col. Strong Vincent, originally of the 83rd PA. He took the initiative and put the brigade on Little Round Top, and my county's 83rd PA and the 44th NY did as much as the 20th Maine to hold that hill.

~Michael

You are correct. I was more generally referring to the 20th Maine's defense of the southern slope where Chamberlain won the Medal of Honor. It was Chamberlain's bayonet charge to defend the Union left flank that finally stalled the Alabama regiments attack.

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:51 pm

Very interesting that many from the North remember their heritage in the War of Northern Aggression

Many of the Yankees who re-locate to the South consider it ancient history and ridicule us for remembering that we had ancestors who fought in the conflict.

I always thought we were more sensitive because of being on the losing side. When I was a kid.... I knew many old people who could "still smell the powder burnin'!" They had not fought in the war but kept the same hard feelings as their fathers and grandfathers had....

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:56 pm

JohnnyReb wrote:
Slick13 wrote:
JohnnyReb wrote:
Little Round Top led by Chamberlain
Led by Col. Strong Vincent, originally of the 83rd PA. He took the initiative and put the brigade on Little Round Top, and my county's 83rd PA and the 44th NY did as much as the 20th Maine to hold that hill.

~Michael
You are correct. I was more generally referring to the 20th Maine's defense of the southern slope where Chamberlain won the Medal of Honor. It was Chamberlain's bayonet charge to defend the Union left flank that finally stalled the Alabama regiments attack.

I know what you're referring to. I just think Chamberlain and the 20th get too much credit and glory when it comes to Little Round Top. There were three other regiments from their brigade holding that line that Vincent had placed them in. If any of them had wavered (not just the 20th), things would have been very different.

I'm very proud of (and senstative about) the 83rd PA (the regiment on the 20th's right flank), and don't think they (or the rest of Strong Vincent's Brigade) get the credit they deserve.

~Michael

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:04 pm

Slick13 wrote:
JohnnyReb wrote:
Slick13 wrote:
JohnnyReb wrote:
Little Round Top led by Chamberlain
Led by Col. Strong Vincent, originally of the 83rd PA. He took the initiative and put the brigade on Little Round Top, and my county's 83rd PA and the 44th NY did as much as the 20th Maine to hold that hill.

~Michael
You are correct. I was more generally referring to the 20th Maine's defense of the southern slope where Chamberlain won the Medal of Honor. It was Chamberlain's bayonet charge to defend the Union left flank that finally stalled the Alabama regiments attack.
I know what you're referring to. I just think Chamberlain and the 20th get too much credit and glory when it comes to Little Round Top. There were three other regiments from their brigade holding that line that Vincent had placed them in. If any of them had wavered (not just the 20th), things would have been very different.

I'm very proud of (and senstative about) the 83rd PA (the regiment on the 20th's right flank), and don't think they (or the rest of Strong Vincent's Brigade) get the credit they deserve.

~Michael

I can certainly understand your feelings. Chamberlain was a central figure in the best seller "Killer Angels" and the subsequent mini-series which dramatized his conduct. Going only by this book and movie, you would have thought he won Gettysburg single handedly! That is why I am so concerned about kids learning "history" by movies.
Though we were on different sides, I can respect an opponent who shows great courage and honor.

Someday, research the WWII battle of Leyte Gulf. It is over-shadowed by Normandy....Okinawa....etc., but it was the only time the Japanese actually saluted Americans for their courage and self-sacrifice...

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:35 pm

Slick13 wrote:
JohnnyReb wrote:
Little Round Top led by Chamberlain
Led by Col. Strong Vincent, originally of the 83rd PA. He took the initiative and put the brigade on Little Round Top, and my county's 83rd PA and the 44th NY did as much as the 20th Maine to hold that hill.

~Michael

Of course I have to agree.

Seriously though, every one of those men did what they thought was right, suffered mightily for it and then, for those who survived, went home and made a life. Their sons and grandsons fought in WWI and WWII and are defending freedom today.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:27 pm

JohnnyReb - The center tries to give just facts, without too much of an opinion but the whole theme here in the north is that the overriding reason for the war was over the expansion of the slave trade to the west (kansas) and whether it shoud be allowed. Lincoln and Douglas were dealing with that issue as they ran for office. The center does touch on the issue of states rights and self determination. However, the slave trade is an overriding theme of the center. The discussions on the battles, the exhibits of each are well balanced between the north and the south.

My family was split in the war, though my heart will always lie south of the mason dixon line.

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:03 pm

rjohns94-Thanks. I really wasn't worried about the North-South issue as much as an almost complete dis-regard for history.

In some of the Federal landmarks here in the South, "Interpretative" centers have replaced historical accounts. One of the centers at a fort all but ignores the history of the fort and goes on about how the white man raped and pillaged the natural beauty of the land...... and how the new world was a nirvana before it was destroyed by us. That side needs to be told but not as a historical fact.

Some veterans have told me that some WWII sites have become "interpretative" and that the attack on Pearl Harbor was justified payback for our imperialist expansions into SE Asia. That issue is to be debated by historians, not included in a presentation at a war monument.

I was simply hoping that Gettysburg was not being used in such a manner.

Thanks
JR

Bluehawk · Post by **Bluehawk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:22 pm

SIxgun
Jack I am with you and without pride I have read 4 books seperately on
the Gettysburg Battle no to mention the various other book son the war over the years and( LIKE YOU ) I live a scant 140 miles fomr the site and even though i have driven through the area numerous times I have nver visited the battle ground I REGRET that imensely I have had plans 4 times in the past to be there and alloccasions have been spoiled by one thing or another I PLAN to go there this summer and Hope to
Thanks for the reminders every one

GEOFF · Post by **GEOFF** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:19 pm

I THINK I saw at the Appamatox center an incredible letter from Joshua L. Chamberlain to his wife. He said something to this effect about the Southern boys that he had just seen lay down their muskets.

"What better men could there possibly be to welcome back into the Union. There manhood and courage is so well tested and assured!!!"

That is a parafrase of what I read many years ago but it always stuck with me. I had family on both sides. My great grandpa fought with the 8th Michigan Vol. Infantry and was wounded at James Island S.C. in June 1862. Others were Rebel boys out of Bedford County, Virginia. They were all great men in my eyes, and I was very impressed with Chamberlains take on it at the end of the war. Not much bitterness, but much respect for the South that had fought so hard for what they believed. My father in WW2 felt much the same respect for the German combat soldier. Not the SS mind you but the average German fighting man dad respected very much and he fought them from North Africa to Berchtesgaden.

Geoff

66GTO · Post by **66GTO** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:21 pm

My wife and I did a Civil War battlefield tour about 12 years ago. We ended up at Gettysburg and it is an understatement to say I was overwhelmed.

I am not ashamed to say that I was overcome with emotion and tears as I stood on Cemetery Ridge and looked out over the field where Pickett led his charge. The courage those men showed when they charged across that field into the teeth of the Union cannons is more than amazing. I don't know if I could have done it.

Climbing around Little Round Top was inspirational also. You could see how close up and personal that fighting had to be. I don't know for sure, but I suspect some of my ancestors from North Alabama were among those Confederate soldiers fighting and dying on Little Round Top in 1863.