Sometimes the old way is still the better way

[jnyork]

MARINE CORPS BASE QUANTICO, Va. — Old-school rifle cleaning kits are about to make a comeback as the Marine Corps phases out its newer, soft cable kits that troops used on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

The throwback change is one of the decisions to come out of the October combat marksmanship symposium here, where leadership met to streamline the service's marksmanship program.

The newer kit’s thin, flexible cable simply lacks the friction needed to properly clean a rifle barrel, said Col. Tim Parker, commander of Weapons Training Battalion.

“Quite frankly, they don’t work as well as the old rods we had that you just screw together,” he said. “This is what the fleet was telling us, so we said ‘All right, we tried a good idea — now let’s go back to the original one.’”






The newer kits, which cost about four times as much as the legacy kits, contain a plethora of specialized precision attachments for almost every possible cleaning scenario. They were designed for Marines' modular lightweight load-carrying equipment.



The older kits, which date back to at least the Vietnam era, consist of three rods and a handle that can be screwed together, a tip for cleaning pads, three wire brushes and a toothbrush — all of which fits snuggly into the buttstock of an M16 rifle.

The newer kits are compact, but experience in Iraq and Afghanistan has shown that their small components are either not used or are easily lost, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Vince Pope, director of the combat marksmanship program’s management section.

“The big benefit of going back to the three-piece cleaning rods is it gives us the additional capability we used to have to clear when I have stuck brass in my chamber,” Pope said. “I can’t do that with the flexible cleaning rod.”

[Griff]

[Pete44ru]

.

I don't even want to know how much the flexible "good idea" cost the American taxpayer. .


.

[sore shoulder]

I can confirm that those Otis cleaning kits are full of useless pieces that get lost easy, and you simply cannot clean the chamber properly/at all with them. I'll have to look at mine again (i still use the rods) but I don't think it even has a chamber brush, which is probably the most important tool in a cleaning kit for an M4/M16.

[Pisgah]

The newer kits are compact, but experience in Iraq and Afghanistan has shown that their small components are either not used or are easily lost, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Vince Pope, director of the combat marksmanship program’s management section.

Duu-uhh.. and it took HOW long to figure this out?

[Griff]

I had to get the chamber brush separately, and use a T-handled rod to clean from the rear with the back pin released. But, I like the cable for bore cleaning.

[FWiedner]

Well, no zhit.

[J Miller]

Good for the Marines. Now I'm assured a good supply of pieces for my cleaning rod kit.

Joe

[gamekeeper]

Some say "don't let practicality stand in the way of progress".......

[mikld]

Ummm, if small parts are lost from a "cable" cleaning kit, what make the small parts of a standard "rod" cleaning kit more "retainable", not easily lost?

[Marvin S]

This probably means the Air Force will go to the cable kit

[Malamute]

Ummm, if small parts are lost from a "cable" cleaning kit, what make the small parts of a standard "rod" cleaning kit more "retainable", not easily lost?

I'm guessing, but probably because there are far less small parts included in the older type.

I rather like the M-16 rods and use them quite a lot. I use a brass cone muzzle guide for levers. Very good rods in general. They made a belt carrier for them, nylon with an Alice clip. I keep one in my truck all the time, with a few brushes and patches and a small bottle of CLP oil.

[jeepnik]

This probably means the Air Force will go to the cable kit

Hey, if it hadn't been for the USAF you folks would never have had to deal with the failure waiting to happen M-16.

[AJMD429]

I like the fiber-type rods that are one-piece, for 'back at home' cleaning, but I do like the 'bore snake' type ones for field use. Seldom do I really need to hard-brush a barrel unless it is 'leaded', in which case nothing works without lots of time or sweat.

With the new 'AR' type carbines often having only 16" or so barrels, why couldn't a one-piece rod of sufficient length be included with the firearm, and stowed on the gun itself, like the muzzleloaders we all use, and the SKS or AK type firearms still used all over the world...???? It isn't like it is heavy, or takes lots of space; there would be plenty of room for it to be stowed up-top alongside the gas-tube under the forearm/handguard. If protruding at front or back end was a problem, a T-handle and 8" of rod would be easy enough to incorporate as a separate piece on the upper, or even a collapsible buttstock.