Anybody Ever Stone A Sear?

[Fiddler]

I recently found a cherry Mossberg Palomino 402 carbine in a pawnshop and it followed me home. Great rifle, except for the trigger. Very crisp, but extremely heavy break. A trigger I can't live with!
Do you guys do your own trigger jobs? Does that include stoning trigger sears and hammer notches?
I'll try to post a photo of this trigger and hammer. What part do you stone?
Alrighty then. I just got a notice that the pic I tried to upload contained too many pixels or something.

[M. M. Wright]

You need to resize your picture to 800 pixels. See the one sticky for instructions on how to post pics.

Are you new? If so, WELCOME!

[crs]

Only once years ago, when I was accurizing my pre 64 Model 70 featherweight .308.
I used an Arkansas stone and followed the directions in an article on how to accurize the M70.
That plus floating the barrel gave me 5/8 inch groups at 100 yards from the bench rest and that was good enough for a hunting rifle. It is still a shooter and dropped my cow elk this year at 200 yards.

[Blaine]

I recently found a cherry Mossberg Palomino 402 carbine in a pawnshop and it followed me home. Great rifle, except for the trigger. Very crisp, but extremely heavy break. A trigger I can't live with!
Do you guys do your own trigger jobs? Does that include stoning trigger sears and hammer notches?
I'll try to post a photo of this trigger and hammer. What part do you stone?
Alrighty then. I just got a notice that the pic I tried to upload contained too many pixels or something.

Do you think it might be very, very dirty/rusty? You could try a clean/polish before you start taking off metal. (Put away that Dremel Tool )

[Chuck 100 yd]

If the trigger is "crisp" as you say, the sear engagement surfaces can't be to bad. More often the springs are way stronger than needed. Adjusting (replacing) spring tension is where I would look first.
If you have not stoned a sear before,know that the engage angles are critical for safe function. Do it wrong and you will either make it worse or totally unsafe.

[new pig hunter]

I've done several trigger jobs on my leverguns and 1911's. I used a hard Arkansas stone. My method is to first look at the surface under a magnifying glass (or a loupe) for machining marks. What I do is gently stone to simply smooth the surface, which means to take off most of the peaks of the machining marks.
One pal of mine brought his Marlin levergun to the house. One of the surfaces looked liked a cheese grater. After a minimal amount of smoothing, the trigger pull was much much nicer.

NPH

[BenT]

Don't change angles just take the machine marks out. I use a small flat file with 400 grit sandpaper wrapped around it. If I remove the trigger sear from the gun then I lay 400 grit paper on the flat part of my vise and run the sear across it. That helps keep everything square. Add oil to the sandpaper also. Not that big of a deal . Then I add slight amount of moly lube to the surface.

[Paladin]

new pig hunter and BenT have it right be very light and only smooth the machine marks angle is very important .

[Fiddler]

I recently found a cherry Mossberg Palomino 402 carbine in a pawnshop and it followed me home. Great rifle, except for the trigger. Very crisp, but extremely heavy break. A trigger I can't live with!
Do you guys do your own trigger jobs? Does that include stoning trigger sears and hammer notches?
I'll try to post a photo of this trigger and hammer. What part do you stone?
Alrighty then. I just got a notice that the pic I tried to upload contained too many pixels or something.

Do you think it might be very, very dirty/rusty? You could try a clean/polish before you start taking off metal. (Put away that Dremel Tool )

This old gun was obviously a safe queen. Not a speck of rust or dirt anywhere, inside or out.
Update: I found the main culprit. It was the trigger return spring. I cut a couple of coils off of it and noticed a difference in the trigger weight immediately.

[marlinman93]

I've fixed more bad trigger/sear jobs than I've done! I personally think everyone who hasn't done a lot of this type of work, should keep their hands off the trigger system. I've had friends pay good money for trigger work, and gotten back guns that were unsafe.
I totally agree with what Chuck 100 Yard posted on springs! Try pulling the trigger spring, without the gun cocked, and see how heavy it is. I've made piano wire trigger return springs to replace flat springs, and taken guns from 8-12 lb. trigger pulls, down to 2-4 lbs. A good cleaning, and oiling with a very slippery oil, like Kroil on all the mating surfaces, will also add to a good feel.

[mikld]

As noted by Paladin, Pig Hunter, and Ben T, don't change the geometry/angles of any parts you work on. Just polish the surfaces smooth, removing as little metal as possible to get a clean friction free surface. But, I'd suggest trying other solutions first; springs, good cleaning, rust/corrosion removal, lube etc. You can always remove metal but it's extremely difficult to put metal back...

[Nath]

Actually the angle is often the culprit.

Many a hammer on a lever gun can be observed moving backwards just prior to release! This means the trigger is actually working the main spring!
This leads many to lighten main springs which is wrong!
Carefully removing this 'hooking' of the sears is always worth it. Often the standard spring weight can be retained and no safe issues arise.

Just because horror stories abound from ham fisted apes it is not a reason to believe it should not be done.


Re the Savage. With a crisp let off it could well be just a spring weight issue, not the striker or hammer spring though.

[BenT]

Actually the angle is often the culprit.

Many a hammer on a lever gun can be observed moving backwards just prior to release! This means the trigger is actually working the main spring!
This leads many to lighten main springs which is wrong!
Carefully removing this 'hooking' of the sears is always worth it. Often the standard spring weight can be retained and no safe issues arise.

Just because horror stories abound from ham fisted apes it is not a reason to believe it should not be done.


Re the Savage. With a crisp let off it could well be just a spring weight issue, not the striker or hammer spring though.

Nath you are correct. I used to put reduced hammer springs in. But I observed what you stated , I adjusted the sear a little. Now I have all the factory springs back in.

Depending on the design, the trigger return spring is a big culprit. I usually remove it and check trigger pull to determine the actually resistance of the sear engagement. It is not rocket science! it just takes patience and observation. It is very putsy work, it takes time to complete.

[stretch]

What everybody else said!

Springs are frequently too strong these days because of
drop-test regulations and suchlike. Wolff Springs
has replacement springs/tuning kits for most guns.

Be very careful stoning a sear. Not only are the angles mostly
correct from the factory, some bits and pieces are only case-hardened.
It doesn't take much to go through that hard skin to softer metal.

Think "polishing a flat surface" more than metal removal.

I did a trigger job not too long ago on a Rossi revolver. I polished
the return shoe and the frame where it rides, cleaned up some
burrs here and there on the hand, frame, and so on, put in a lighter
weight mainspring, and that's it. I was fussy with the polishing.
Never touched the hammer or sear engagement surfaces. It now
goes bang every time, the DA is GREAT, and the SA is light enough
to be unusable in a social situation. It takes a little time to find
out what the problem is, and many times touching the sear/hammer
is the LAST step.

I'd agree that if it lets off crisply, changing the appropriate springs
should help. Then test it to make sure that the hammer/firing pin/striker
hits the primers hard enough for reliable ignition.

Slow and easy. And put the Dremel tool away!!!

-Stretch

[Sixgun]

Stoning a trigger with no training is like a retart taking on the job of dismantling a bomb that has 6 switches that all have to be cut in varying sequences. In addition to geometric angles there's the possibility of cutting through the .005 of case hardening that protects the soft steel underneath. Even changing springs without knowledge can lead to all kinds of aggravation such as light firing pin hits or timing issues on related connecting parts.

These things don't cost much....pay someone the small charge or be prepared to pay someone a much larger charge. ------6