120 grain bullets in 30/30 and 32/20 -- Range Report

[earlmck]

I snoozed the last few years while lead prices jumped 1000% or so. Suddenly it seems nicer to blast my tin cans with a smaller bullet vs. doing the same thing with a larger bullet, just for the economy of the deal. And while my old reliable Lyman 31141 (about 175 grains) has been my 30 cal casty of choice for a looong time, I have picked up a couple of nice 120 grain molds which I needed for the 32/20. Seemed like a natural thing to give them a try in some of these other rifles.

Today was 30/30 day, and also a "let's see if this bullet really needs that expensive gas check" day.

Here are the bullets tested:

LightCast30CalBullets.jpg

We have the 117 grain Ranch Dog bullet which casts up about 314, and the first two bullets are sized .314 in the Lee sizer after getting a light coating of Lee liquid Alox; first with gas check and second without gas check. The third bullet is the same Ranch Dog bullet gas checked and sized .309 with LBT Blue lube. And the last is the 120 grain Lee which casts about .311, here sized .309 with the Blue lube.

30/30 with the 120 grain Lee and my old standby of 10 grains Green Dot for 1700 fps. and about 4.5 moa group (all shooting done at 50 yards)

309Lee.jpg

30/30 with the 117 grain Ranch Dog .309GC and the 10 grains Green Dot, also 1700 fps. and about 2.5 moa group.

309RanchDog.jpg

Here is the 32/20 with the .314 Ranch Dog, no gas check, 3.0 Red Dot for 1000 fps. and about 2.75 moa group.

314RDwithoutGC.jpg

And here is the 32/20 with the .314 Ranch Dog with gas check, 3.0 Red Dot and also about 2.75 moa. and the same point of impact as without gc.

314RD withGasCheck.jpg

I'm a happy camper. That Ranch Dog bullet doesn't lose a bit of accuracy leaving the gas check off for my light loads (grandkid favorite load there). Not only does that make these bullets cheaper to produce but much much quicker (all you who have spent hours applying gas checks know whereof I speak).

And who'd have thought you could size a .314 bullet down to .309 and not damage it so bad it wouldn't shoot for beans? This seems to shoot fully as well as the old 31141 mold and requires only 2/3 the amount of lead to produce. I could probably play with the Lee 120 grain and get equal accuracy (it appears to be a very nice bullet) but I may not bother. The Lee is from a 2-cavity mold while the Ranch Dog is from a 6 cavity mold. Man can you turn out a bunch of bullets in a hurry with that 6 cavity baby!

A note on the bullet sizing is in order. I did get some apparent damage sizing from that .314 down to .311 in my Lyman sizer. The grease grooves appeared more "squozed" on one side than the other on many of the bullets. But I have long known that my Starr sizer (push through nose first) does a more even sizing job. And the only 30 cal die I have for the Starr is the .309 die. (acquired from "lathesmith" over on "CastBoolits"). It seems to do a perfect job of taking that .314 bullet down to fit in a 30/30.

Final note. I had loaded 50 of the 120 grain Lee bullets so we shot them up on tin cans. They seemed to do a lot better on tin cans to 120 yards than you would expect from that 4.5 moa grouping. Plus I shot five, made a 3-click elevation adjustment, and shot the other five, so some of that spread is done intentionally. Another try would be in order if I didn't have such good results with the other small bullet.

[gamekeeper]

Interesting post, thanks for sharing...

[Nath]

Result. Good work and perfect sense. I find the Alliant shot shell powders are great in these applications.

N.

[J35]

Go get em Earl

When I was working with GD in the 30-30 with 115 to 120 gr cast bullets my best accuracy was with 8 gr.

----------J

[ollogger]

Nice report Earl !! The little lee shoots great in 1 30-30 for me but real bad in 2 others ive tried
it also did well in a 30-06 with a little unique, if you don't run out of lead you can keep the
grand kids shooting real cheap





ollogger

[Canuck Bob]

Great report, I'm looking at light cast for my 32-20 and 32 Special. I think I have a lifetime supply of scrap lead in the garage. however getting it to stretch is wise these days. I am also convinced the real purpose of tin cans is as targets, lol.

[Catshooter]

Earl,

I use the Lyman 311008 over five grains of Red Dot. Quiet, accurate, zip for recoil and just a bit over 1,200 feet. Nice load.


Cat

[w30wcf]

Great report. One of my favorite things to shoot in my .30-30's.

100 gr. RCBS 50 yds


Lyman 3118 50 yds



For those that don't cast:

The 90 gr. Hornady SWC works really well.
I size them from .314 to .311 in a Lee push through sizing die.



The 98 gr. Magtech works fine too.


There are a number of neat lead alloy bullet choices for the .30-30 & other .30 caliber rifles....


w30wcf

[earlmck]

There are a number of neat lead alloy bullet choices for the .30-30 & other .30 caliber rifles....


w30wcf

Wow! That's an impressive lineup of light 30 cal bullets, John. Fellow could look at your picture there and do some serious planning. And that's some good shooting also!

I can see I was quite late to the light-bullet party here. I'd still be shooting old 31141 if I hadn't got a shock at the local tire store the last year when I went to restock my wheelweight supply and found a) they only had 20 pounds of them and b) they wanted $0.80 per pound for those few. And old dummy here is down to his last couple hundred pounds. That'll produce quite a bunch of 120 grain 30's and 100 grains 6mm's and 55 grain 22's. Won't last so long if I go to producing those beloved 300 grain 44's for the 44 mag or the 310's for the Casull.

[1894c]

earlmck -- this a great post, thanks for sharing... :)

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, I assume you were running those .32-20 loads through that lovely Savage bolt gun of yours?
Thanks for making the comparison of GC and non-GC; I always feel like an idjit on the subject.

[earlmck]

Earl, I assume you were running those .32-20 loads through that lovely Savage bolt gun of yours?
Thanks for making the comparison of GC and non-GC; I always feel like an idjit on the subject.

Yes, using the little Savage I got from jdad. I haven't showed the grandkids the Browning 53 -- it's too dang purty for me to shoot, let alone a grandkid. And the Savage has outshot it with any load I've tried so far anyway.

The gas check starts getting more and more necessary as we go past -- seems to me the 1300 fps level, +/- ?? -- and some of my tries without GC haven't looked good at any velocity, depending on the bullet. So it is a treat when one does fine w/o the little GC.

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, did Kacie get in some offhand elk practice while you were at the range?

[earlmck]

Earl, did Kacie get in some offhand elk practice while you were at the range?

Not this time, Bill. I have discovered that I can either take grandkids shooting, or I can set up targets and chronograph and test loads, but I can't do both the same day.

[w30wcf]

earlmck,
I guess you could call me a .30-30 light bullet nut of sorts. Since I took that pic, I purchased a Lee 100 gr. RN mold and an RCBS 110 gr. RNFP GC mold which is similar to the 311316 (#9 in the pic) except that the nose portion is a little longer.

In a way, we are repeating history. Back in the late 1890's - early 1900's the factories offered a .30 W.C.F. / .30-30 Short Range Cartridge that was loaded with 100-117 gr. lead bullets depending on the year and the manufacturer.
They were advertised "For small game when the more powerful cartridge is not necessary."

They were designed to be close to the same O.A.L. as the standard factory cartridge.

The neck cannelure was needed to keep the pure lead bullets from telescoping into the case when in the magazine.
Velocities were in the 1100-1200 f.p.s. range based on some original rounds I tested.



Last year I decided to have Accurate Molds make a mold that would replicate the 117 gr. Winchester bullet.....



Testing so far indicates that it is a nice accurate bullet at 1,200 f.p.s.

w30wcf

[earlmck]

earlmck,
I guess you could call me a .30-30 light bullet nut of sorts. Since I took that pic, I purchased a Lee 100 gr. RN mold and an RCBS 110 gr. RNFP GC mold which is similar to the 311316 (#9 in the pic) except that the nose portion is a little longer.

In a way, we are repeating history. Back in the late 1890's - early 1900's the factories offered a .30 W.C.F. / .30-30 Short Range Cartridge that was loaded with 100-117 gr. lead bullets depending on the year and the manufacturer.
They were advertised "For small game when the more powerful cartridge is not necessary." w30wcf

Fascinating info, John. Those were surely the "good old days", weren't they, when the factories loaded down the powerful 30wcf so it wouldn't be so destructive?

And that would give exactly the same ballistics as the light 32/20 load EdinCT used to dispatch the "mangy coyote" the other day...

I can see I have some more playing around to do. My 1700 fps loads are waaaay overdoing it. At 1200 fps or below I'll bet I wouldn't need the gas check for the 30/30 loads.

[Bill in Oregon]

John, thank for the info on the factory small game loads. You say your 117 FN from the Accurate mold in nicely accurate? Bet it is perfect for the intended purpose.

Earl, on grandkids vs. getting some chrono work done, I understand. It's like taking little ones fishing ... dad or grandad spends the whole day baiting hooks, untangling lines ...

[Canuck Bob]

w30wcf those are great pics and details. This topic really interests me. How do the bullets 6-9 feed from the magazine. The Soupcan style with a long bearing surface and short nose seems to make a lot of sense from a design point of view if it feeds ok.

It is interesting that you like some of the bullets with long noses and shorter bearing surfaces.

[w30wcf]

earlmck,
Yes indeed, they surely were "the good old days." At 1,200 f.p.s. no g.c. is required.

There was another light bullet .30-30 cartridge back then....
the .30-30 Miniature which was offered only by U.M.C. and Savage. It was loaded with a 100 gr. full metal patched bullet at around 1,450 f.p.s. Savage literature indicated that it was accurate to 200 yards.

It was loaded with 8 grs of "Infallible", a powder with a burning rate very close to Unique. 8grs. of Unique under a 120 gr. G.C. bullet clocked around 1,500 f.p.s. and produced good accuracy. (With 110 gr rn jacketed .30 Carbine bullets, velocity was closer to 1,400 f.p.s.).

Bill,
You are most welcome. Yes the Accurate 31-117K shoots well at 1,200 f.p.s. Possibly, if pushed much faster acuracy would diminish since a bit over 1/2 the bullet length is unsupported.

Bob,
Thank you. Yes, cartridges with the shorter bullets feed fine from both my 1894 W's and 336 Marlins.

w30wcf

[DiamondD]

w30wcf,

My favorite light bullet .30 wcf load is the Speer plinker 100 grain over a bit of W231, I think it's six grains but I'd have to look. I believe I got this load from you here years ago. I have a couple of pounds of trail boss and will load this bullet with some of it eventually.

Dean

[w30wcf]

A bit of history ........
In the early 1900's Ideal (forerunner of present day Lyman) catalogs had a chapter on "Reduced Loads in.30 Caliber Rifles".
To that end they offered lighter versions of a couple of their standard bullets.
The 308206-125 and 308241-125 are a couple of examples.....



After noting that, back in the 1990's I purchased an additional 311041 mold and had it modified (cut the mold back) so that only 3 driving bands remained. Interestingly, the resultant bullet weighed 125 grs. in w.w.+ 2% alloy. In keeping with the earlier tradition, I named it the 311041-125.

It has proven to be a very accurate bullet. Success! In the .30-30, Using 6 grs of 4756, velocity runs 1,150 f.p.s. or thereabouts. On a good day (little wind), it will group in the 1 1/2" range at 100 yards.....if I do my part....

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

w30wcf,

My favorite light bullet .30 wcf load is the Speer plinker 100 grain over a bit of W231, I think it's six grains but I'd have to look. I believe I got this load from you here years ago. I have a couple of pounds of trail boss and will load this bullet with some of it eventually.

Dean

Dean,
The Speer plinker is a nice lighter .30 Caliber jacketed bullet. 8 grs. of Trailboss worked pretty well and developed 1,220 f.p.s. in the .30-30.

In addition to the 100 Speer short jacketed, here is a lineup of some other lighter .30 caliber jacketed bullets.



w30wcf

[M. M. Wright]

Thanks Earl and others, a lot of good information here that I can use. I have an Ideal 32-20 hand tool with bullet mold on the end. Throws a sorta 115 grain bullet that I want to try in the 32-20.

[Malamute]

Great thread, and great information guys!

I've been using 6 1/2 grs Unique with a 115-120 gr cast for quite a while as a small game/pest load. Its about 1200 fps from what I can determine, though I don't have a chronograph.

3 grs Unique or Red Dot with a .310-.315" round ball also makes a very mild close range grouse/bunny load with little noise. 231 is supposed to be better for extra-light loads, but I haven't tried it yet.

I have a mold for the 77 gr 32 auto bullet but haven't cast any yet. It should be great for light loads.

[w30wcf]

I recently ordered and received some 90 gr. .30 Cal cast bullets (100 count) from Desperado just to see how they would perform.

http://www.cowboybullets.com/32-Caliber_c_1.html

I loaded 10 over 5 grs of 4756 for about 1100 f.p.s. Two 5 shot groups @ 50 averaged 1 1/4".

w30wcf

[Tycer]

Time to resurrect another great thread!

[AJMD429]

Time to resurrect another great thread!

+1

[Malamute]

I was just reading this and thinking what a great thread it was,...then saw the date. Its STILL a great thread. Re-reading it was a pleasure.

Before I saw the date I was going to post, just about what I did then.

I'm looking for a couple of other lighter weight molds for different guns. Thinking a 429215 for general use in the 44's, without GC for lighter loads, with for a little heavier ones. May try a 200 gr 45 auto bullet. I used to shoot the old 200 gr No 68 H&G I think it was. I think I found a round ball mold for 38 cal also. I turned up a couple 115 and 125 gr 38 molds. All should help the lead supply last longer. Recall seeing where people have set a bucket of sand up as a backstop to their targets so they could reclaim the lead easier.

Another thing, the more everything on the body hurts, the less fun the bigger stuff is to shoot.

[yooper2]

Agreed, great thread.
I'm using a plain based copy of the Lyman 311316 from NOE. I like that it has a crimp groove unlike the 3118. 6 grs. of Unique gives about 1130fps out of a 20" barrel over my chronograph with groups hovering around 1.75-2" at 50 yards. I position the powder for each shot.

This bullet also works nicely in my 32 Mag Single-Six.


Eric

P.S.
311316 crimped in the groove feeds through my '94.

[siberian505]

Sand will grind up your bullets, try rubber mulch. Is a lot easier on the bullet. Finally see some accuracy with trail boss loads. Have to try them for a grouse load.

[Bill in Oregon]

Yes, this is a classic thread. Great to re-read it. I was wondering how Earl was getting all that shooting in when the weather has been so disagreeable.

[Pisgah]

I've never fiddled with light lead bullet loads in the .30-30 -- but this thread has just about convinced me that I need to! I've go a bunch of those 90 gr. Hornady SWC bullets on hand that I use in my .32 S&W Long handguns, probably 600+ of them left after my latest .32-loading binge.

Really surprising that those GC'd bullets do so well without the GC, but I agree that the low velocity is probably the key. Overall, the idea of a light small game and varmint load has really got the ol' juices running!

[Malamute]

I've never fiddled with light lead bullet loads in the .30-30 -- but this thread has just about convinced me that I need to! I've go a bunch of those 90 gr. Hornady SWC bullets on hand that I use in my .32 S&W Long handguns, probably 600+ of them left after my latest .32-loading binge.

Really surprising that those GC'd bullets do so well without the GC, but I agree that the low velocity is probably the key. Overall, the idea of a light small game and varmint load has really got the ol' juices running!

They are a heck of a lot of fun.

The round ball loads I make are about as loud as a 22, and take care of marauding snakes, mice, pack rats etc with no problem. They kill grouse and bunnies well without tearing them up also. For some reason, the bunnies tend to make a loud WHOP sound and do a flip in the air, hitting the ground dead when hit with the round ball loads.

[Griff]

I got the "soup-can" mold over at Cast-Boolits" several years ago, but haven't played w/it as I've never had the boolits fill out properly. Now that I've got a working pot again, I'll have to make another run of 'em. Thanks for dredging up this "old" thread, got me thinkin'...

[earlmck]

I did a double-take until I saw the date -- for sure this kid hasn't got any shooting in for some time now.

For a while last year (between knee and shoulder replacements) I had been shooting the little bullet in the 300 Savage and it seemed reasonably deadly on tin cans, but I haven't put any on paper or through a chronograph. I'll have to do that if we ever get some shooting weather around here.

Man, if the boss could stand to abandon the grandkids for a while I'd be looking at joining up with jnyork in Yuma for a few months of the winter.

[JohndeFresno]

Earl - and others ! - great thread, terrific posts.

Saved in my archives.

Thank you!

[Marvin S]

Great write up. I have most of the 32wcf molds and plan to give them a go in the 30wcf.

[wvfarrier]

Instead of gas checks I use the "shake n bake" method of powder coating. No lube needed. No gas checks. Adds 30 minutes to the process but I can do A LOT in that 30 minutes.

[Hawkeye2]

Fantastic thread, thanks to everyone for sharing the results of their work. I've always been a fan of reduced loads for punching paper and plinking. They can lead to a longer shooting day without discomfort and result in a lot more fun. I think the most important benefit is that they encourage a person to get those older and possibly more valuable guns down off the wall and use them without causing extra wear. I have had it in mind to work up a light and accurate cast load for my 94 .32 special for a long time but just never seem to get round to it.