maybe a bargain ar upper

[Grizz]

http://www.surplusammo.com/saa-extreme- ... port-door/

I have no affiliation, but for someone with an already built lower, say a pistol lower, this upper will extend range, and seems pretty cheap to me.

I have this unit on a rifle only lower and it is a good shooter. the gas block is not same plane. the one I have functions perfectly, and gives me acceptable plinker accuracy with a cheap 1-4 scope. iow, the bullets go to about the same place as the reticule about every time as far as I can tell. have not benched it or punched paper.
I bought this kit because of the aluminum free float fore grip, and I like that a lot. I have two uppers with their 'dragon's breath' muzzle device and it does seem to push the gasses more forward than sideways, compared to an a2 flash hider. although it's subjective and I have not proofed the concept.

in the carbine application I don't miss the bolt pusher or the missing door. lighter and less to go wrong.

here's the bargain lower:

http://www.surplusammo.com/anderson-ar1 ... -integral/

sale ends manana and the upper is not a gun so it ships to your door.

[AJMD429]

Seriously - AR's have gotten so inexpensive that pretty much EVERYONE can afford, and should have, one - even if they are not a "black gun" type gun owner.

Kind of like having a vice grips in your tool box, whether you are a college girl who is like-totally-un-mechanical, or a trim carpenter or machinist. It is useful for all.

I tell everyone who asks about 'getting a firearm' to at least consider shelling out the $65 or so it costs to get a "stripped lower", so if later the "EBR Bug" bites them, they are sort of grandfathered in.

Sure, I know there are better ones and these 'entry level' ones are "junk" - but newbies aren't going to buy a $3,500 customer battle-ready tactical rifle.

I see AR's as:

a) <$500 "junk" guns that actually can almost always be made to shoot reliably and accurately (at least exceeding the accuracy of the newbie shooter). I wouldn't want to carry one into battle, but I also wouldn't want to be shot at with one, even by a newbie/amateur.

b) $500-$1000 "decent" guns that generally will not need any tweaking to shoot well enough out-of-the-box to hit a 4" gong at 100 yards 80% of the time. Little wrong with them. Maybe upgrade the sights and add an adjustable gas block.

c) $1,000-1,500 guns that will outperform the above, shoot cloverleaf groups at 100 yards, and do anything I'd ever need (or more, really, since I'm mostly a plinker/hunter).

d) the >$1,500-$2,000 guns where you start having "everything just right" for competition or hunting or home defense, including great optics.

e) Guns >$2,000 that are either competitors dream-machines, rich-guy's toys, or sometimes may be the tools of a professional combat survivor.

The guys I talk to who have been in combat have no tolerance for bad tools of any kind, although putting a price tag on their AR's is not always easy, since duplicating them at civilian/retail prices isn't always even possible. When I see the "tacti-kool" stuff the armchair-warriors have vs. the "actually been-there-done-that" stuff the veterans used, the latter always look like beat-up relics - but I get the impression that's just what happens when the poop/mud/rain/blood/guts/ricochets tear off all the cool-looking gadgetry...

[Streetstar]

The guys I talk to who have been in combat have no tolerance for bad tools of any kind, although putting a price tag on their AR's is not always easy, since duplicating them at civilian/retail prices isn't always even possible. When I see the "tacti-kool" stuff the armchair-warriors have vs. the "actually been-there-done-that" stuff the veterans used, the latter always look like beat-up relics - but I get the impression that's just what happens when the poop/mud/rain/blood/guts/ricochets tear off all the cool-looking gadgetry...

Its funny when i get together for a range session with a fewe of my old Army buddies (We are Desert Storm/Somalia era vets -- although a couple have since gone on to do multiple tours in A'Stan and Bosnia ) - and we try to get together a couple of times a year --- Most of us werent gun guys before we joined the military , so now in retirement or long since discharged, every man has an AR of some type mainly because thats what we grew up shooting and familiarity is comforting

Nobody pooh-poohs my "pathetic stock Colt with A2 sights" , nor do they have anything negative to say about the effectiveness of my old M-16 upper'ed A1 rifle because it doesnt have an Elcan or a C-More on it, -- we just shoot (Some of the folks on the high speed low drag sites, like Arfcom, would equate these to throwing sharp sticks around )

And interestingly enough , most of these guys' love to get an opportunity for some trigger time behind my M1A, or any of the lever guns. The general consensus seems to be

"I've put more rounds downrange with AR platform rifles than i care to count as a professional, - so lets just have some fun with the guns from a by-gone era" -- so we just go shootin' and leave the room clearing, romper stomper carbine class theatrics to those who like to do those things-- we have seen "Tier 1 operators" show up at the range in lifted trucks with Magpul decals on them and guys' wearing web gear and drop leg holsters and the like -- while we shoot beer cans and clay targets off the berms at the range

To a man though, i think we'd all like to have an ACOG on our civilian AR's, but none of us wants to pony up 1200$ for one when that money could be better spent on more ammo (or paying bills -- )

One of my buds has a budget build he put together himself -- OTD price maybe $500 - and he is proud of the fact that he put it together so cheap , -- and his opinion is "it doesnt have a 3 position selector switch, so why pay $1000 or more?"
I wonder if he realizes he may be endangering his family and those around him because he doesnt have a chrome lined barrel, and said barrel is 1:9 twist as well --

[7.62 Precision]

I personally see the $1,000 to $1,500 price range as the ideal top-end price range for ARs. in that price range you can get top-quality ARs like LMTs, Colts, BCM, etc. Go above that price range and you are getting less for your money, proportionately. A lot of the very expensive ARs are no better than the $1,200 ARs, and much of the price is about a logo or about things being done to the rifle that have no place being done to an AR, like bedding barrels, truing actions, tightening specs, etc.

Consider the fact that I know guys who will pay $300 for a blemished stripped Noveske lower, and the same lower built by the same manufacturer that builds Noveske's lowers, can be had with a different logo for $100. What are you getting for that $200? A cool logo.

So if I want a rifle out of the box that I consider top-of-the line, one that I can trust to be built right, everything in spec and just has that feeling of a rifle that is right, I'll spend $1,000 on an LMT. I used an LMT in combat and I have one sitting next to my bed now for home defense.

Anything more expensive than that I can't justify practically. If it is what you want or like, that's fine, if you like the logo or the bragging rights, there is something to that for lots of folks.

On the lower end of the price range (while I don't like Anderson for several reasons, and won't buy their stuff, won't mess with Model 1 Sales, either, or outfits like Vulcan/Hesse/Blackthorn/whatever they reinvent themselves as next) I don't have any problem with inexpensive ARs. Maybe you have to play with some stuff to get the best function, maybe some brands of magazines won't work in a particular rifle, maybe you have to break it is a bit or replace the buffer with one that wasn't made in China, file the bolt catch so it doesn't stick or use a hammer and punch on the takedown pins. If you recognize that you may have to fiddle with it a bit, if you already have maybe a couple other guns, too, does it really matter in the long run?

It gets frustrating dealing with the video game-playing, basement-living, body armor-wearing range-commandos who want to criticize everyone's decision to buy any AR that costs less than $5,000 and weighs less than an M2.

"Well, if you were in the mountains of Afghanistan, you would want . . . "
Well, stupid. I'm not in Afghaninstan. I'm popping prairie dogs in Montana with a $600 rifle and a $500 scope, so bugger off.

[7.62 Precision]

On the configuration side, I like a ejection port cover, but it is not as necessary as people think.

I do like a forward assist, and am generally uncomfortable about not having one on a rifle I am really using for hunting and stuff: http://shwat.com/TheStories/tabid/85/En ... ature.aspx

If you don't have one, though, you can use your thumb on the side of the bolt if necessary.

[AJMD429]

It gets frustrating dealing with the video game-playing, basement-living, body armor-wearing range-commandos who want to criticize everyone's decision to buy any AR that costs less than $5,000 and weighs less than an M2.

How true. It reminds me of how those who are truly wealthy don't bother showing off their wealth, but the nouveau riche always have to flash the diamond ring, brag about the boat, or whatever. Same with military experience - some relatives who have 'been there done that' and didn't come back with all their flesh, have been known to sit quietly and listen to the braggarts and just politely nod in agreement as they tell their tales. (Some of those same relatives in their youth might have waited until the braggart dug a big enough verbal hole, and then pushed them into it - sometimes not just verbally... )

"Well, if you were in the mountains of Afghanistan, you would want . . . "
Well, stupid. I'm not in Afghaninstan. I'm popping prairie dogs in Montana with a $600 rifle and a $500 scope, so bugger off.

THAT pretty much sums up my attitude - balance the equipment (and cost) to the real job-at-hand. If the 'job' is just to have fun playing with a really expensive and flashy brand-name toy, that's ok - but don't make like you are James Bond when you're Walter Mitty.

In the backyard or at the range, my $1,000 (or less) AR will be just as much FUN for me as whatever the other guy is shooting is for him. In the rare event of a home-protection scenario, I am willing to count on the firearms I have selected for that purpose (they do have to 'prove' themselves in my own 'field-testing' and not just a sponsored magazine 'product review'), even though I concede that if I were to trot into the Gates of Hell or Real Combat (unsure which is worse), many of my firearms would be statistically likely to fail sooner than The Best. At my age I am also quite sure that statistically my body would fail far sooner than most of the firearms I've decided I trust...

[Grizz]

I bought the 10.5" 556 pistol kit. Complete upper. LPK and receiver extension and buffer stuff. Complete gun less the stripped lower. came with 3 magpul mags and the magpul handguard. so no free float on this one. has same plane gas block so I get to buy another front sight. the bushnell red dot is on there now. ultimately I think I want to put a green laser on the bottom of the gas block and irons on top.

it's a pdw, and it lives with a couple of other pistols in mutual support. they get together at night and tell on me. oh well.

Less dinero than a glock or sig. If it works, I'll trust it, just like my other pistols. If they mess with me then I fiddle with them and leave them home when I roll. It's a lot to do with I'm cheap and can't see how 1200 bucks worth of gun beats 400 bucks worth of gun and 800 bucks worth of ammo. It's a me-thing, but I'm wired that way so I go with it.

I have the 300 BLK and consider it a back up option and parts gun if the other one needs parts. I decided to go with the 556 for the car-go because of the ease of getting ammo, and because of the results of testing and performance results that I didn't have when I got the 300. If anyone thinks the 300 is MEH, this guy, who has a hundred thousand rounds downrange, has a different POV. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik].

So now I am waiting to see how these units settle in, and have my eyes open for a 50 Beo or 458 Soc... for the AK trip next summer. I could probably be happy with either, and the 556 uppers for plinking.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Grizz]

I just bought a complete 556 pistol kit for 391.31 delivered. I'm looking at the invoice. And the lower I paid just under 100.00. So I have an ar pistol for about 490.00. Not a barn burner, but not a daniel defense either. Came with 3 30 round magpul mags, gen m2 it says. So 460.00 or less into the gun.

I think Ruger makes fine firearms and could have been happy with that. But the ones I have shoot great and I don't have any regrets. I can't say that the Rugers are any better or worse than the ones I have. I'm guessing they will all be worth more after the next nazi gets in office.

I am also mystified about some prices I see. I can't build a complete gun for much less if any than this, for what I see around here.

that texas company is selling ars for 419, but I have to pay ffl and shipping on top of that, so it isn't any cheaper than what I am spending here.

black friday is a good time to pick up some actual bargains. I still have a new 223 wylde barrel and stripped upper I can do something with. I got them last year when the prices dropped enough to bite. I will troll for gas blocks and barrel nuts. I'm thinking of making a wood handguard to get some sov vibes going. It's fun stuff to play with, and ammo is available until the next election or so . . . I might make a wood stocked AR just because I can.

good night all

[wolfdog]

Never had been a EBR enthusiast. Then a few months back I picked up a a Franken AR on the cheap, with a few few P-mags I paid $300. Ran for stuff, which I knew when I bought it, tinkered with it a bit(mostly clean and lube) and has now run fine for about 500 rounds. Not amazingly accurate about 1.5 inches at 100, but sufficient for the things I would ask of it. Since it made my mini 14 redundant I then sold the mini, bought more ammo components, and a 16 inch 300 BO upper($349 new out the door at a local gun show) which shoots under an inch at 100(using a scope) and should make a decent pig/deer buster out to 100 yards.

[Grizz]

I get that Wolfdog. I was a long longtime holdout until recently. Now I'm learning what I can and having a blast with a firearm that's a cross between an erector set and legos. And shoots as good as I need as far as I can see to shoot.

The thing that overcame my skepticism was when I took the red dot off of the pistol and stuck it on the carbine, and it lined up the bullets perfectly. I'm looking forward to seeing if it holds up on the new upper.

Trying not to get too carried away with raw enthusiasm. But still looking for a larger displacement upper because there's no replacement, etc.

[Blaine]

God Bless Barry Ovomit, the greatest gun salesman in history.

[Streetstar]

. Not amazingly accurate about 1.5 inches at 100, but sufficient for the things I would ask of it. .

Considering what is most likely a rack grade barrel, and i am assuming you werent shooting great ammo (few do) - that is more than acceptable accuracy

With typical 55 grain XM-193 type loads or the 62 grain "green tip" loads that people pick up for between 6 and 8 bucks a box and plink with , -- 2.5 to 3" accuracy is pretty reasonable even - so it sounds like your doing something right ---- but compared to a Mini 14, which is known for 4-6" accuracy with the same ammo, thats pretty good

[Grizz]

http://www.majorpandemic.com/2012/09/ba ... 15-ar.html

here is a poster-boy for the higher dollar price points. if this was what I needed from an AR, I'd probably want it. The whole story is good old American exceptionalism. I like everything about it, but it's hypothetical for me because so far what I have seems likely to be the utilitarian-class bullet spitter that I need and appreciate.

And the difference in price buys a LOT of ammo. But this Barne's rifle has all the right stuff.

[AJMD429]

. . . . and a 16 inch 300 BO upper($349 new out the door at a local gun show) which shoots under an inch at 100(using a scope) and should make a decent pig/deer buster out to 100 yards.

What ammo or load shoots that well from your 300 Blk...??? I've got mine halfway decent with 125 grainers if I load them out long overall length, and run them over 2,000 fps, but nothing so accurate yet with the heavies run subsonically...

[wolfdog]

Factory loaded Nosler 125 grain BT and 110 Grain Varmagedon. Only loads I have done didn't shoot near as good using 130 Speer HP. The advertised velocity for the 125 grain bullet is 2250. Also this upper is 1-8 with a carbine length gas system, it is set up to run Supers only.