Shooting the old 1873 44wcf.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:06 pm

Today the old 76 rifles were left at home and the old 1873 Winchester 28"Heavy octagon barrel set trigger 44wcf. was dusted off for some range shooting. A good freind had sent me some Mav Dutchman .44 bullets he had cast for a test in the long barrel 73. These bullets carry a very large lube groove and that is a big + when shooting Bp. IN LONG BARRELS. The bullets were lubed with my home brew 50/50 Bees Wax/ Tallow and sized @ .427,# 300 CCI cap, 36gr. 2ff Swiss Bp. in a Starline case , All seated with an old Ideal Tong tool. I set the old 73 Circa 1885 on sand bags @ 50yd. The set trigger was used for a ten shot string with No wipeing during the ten shots. Started with a shot in center dot, Made a change in my hold and the next six shots went into one long vertical hole then the fouling began to effect the accuracey a bit, or my aim began to drift . Think a bit of both. The old 73 liked the Mav Dutchman bullet just fine , over 36gr. of 2ff Swiss it had quite the bark!!! Will install the Winchester long range thick base tang as soon as the mounting screws arrive, for testi

ng @ 100yd next. Apic of the old rifle and todays target.,,,,,DT

hondo1892 · Post by **hondo1892** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:16 pm

Another beautiful old rifle Dusty. Looks like it shoots as good as it looks also.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:25 pm

Yelp, that's one more fine lookin rifle

PLOWBOY

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:08 pm

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:44 pm

That's a great looking old Winchester with some rare options. And it shoots good too!

You remind me of forum member Shrapnel for having such fine old Winchesters that you actually use as intended.

I have a 28" barreled '73 in .44-40 that was made in 1880, but it ain't near so nice looking as yours. My rifle's bore is dark and slugs at .431" so I use .432" bullets from a custom ordered Accurate mold. I was wondering if you have slugged your bore? I know my rifle is very forgiving when using black powder as it shoots pretty well with bullets as small as .429".

Shasta

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:07 pm

Posts like this are a good reason to stick around. Very nice.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:30 pm

You Guys a killin Me with all these posts bout the toggle-link Winnies . I sold My Uberti '73 because it was too purty and I didn't want to drop it in the mud. I don't need it , don't need it...........but I want it. Fine rifles and Shooting Dusty.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:03 am

The 73 is my all time favorite long gun, if I had one that looked and shot as good as yours I would be a very happy man...

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:46 am

Shasta wrote:That's a great looking old Winchester with some rare options. And it shoots good too! You remind me of forum member Shrapnel for having such fine old Winchesters that you actually use as intended.

I have a 28" barreled '73 in .44-40 that was made in 1880, but it ain't near so nice looking as yours. My rifle's bore is dark and slugs at .431" so I use .432" bullets from a custom ordered Accurate mold. I was wondering if you have slugged your bore? I know my rifle is very forgiving when using black powder as it shoots pretty well with bullets as small as .429".

Shasta

Shasta I have slugged the bore on this one , and like yours and most from this era, it has a deep groove . This one sluggs @0.425 bore and 0.432 groove. It was kind of a suprise that the .427 bullets bumped up enough to give that kind of accuracey. Have been considering ordering a mold from Accurate . What mold did you order ? I like the looks of the Accurate 43-200 Q-D . ,,,,,DT

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:11 am

Excellent photo of a beautiful rifle that shoots really well. Thanks for sharing.

44WCF is my favorite caliber, (calibre?) since I bought my first one in '55. I have six Colts and three rifles in that caliber and I burn the black in all of them. Usually ten rounds per stage in SASS and I wipe my rifle after every stage but the SAAs will run six stages with no problems except I like to check the screws for tightness a couple of times. Especially the ejector rod housing screw. The rifle I shoot most is an Uberti so I use .429 bullets and my own lube made from toilet bowl waxes and olive oil. I go ahead and use the same load in the pistols too though I must use Winchester or Starline brass for the .429 bullet to seat in the chambers of my Colts. Remington brass is just too thick for that bullet/brass combination to work.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:12 am

Dusty-

Accurate mold #43-215C was suggested to me by forum member John Kort (w30wcf), who designed the mold, and he even sent me some sample bullets to try. Unfortunately the bullet was slightly too long to cycle through my rifle's action when crimped on the crimp groove. John arranged a slight redesign of the bullet with a shorter nose, designated the 43-205C. I ordered an aluminum three cavity mold to drop .433" bullets, and it does a beautiful job.

Shasta

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:26 pm

Shasta I like the look of that bullet. Looks like it holds plenty of lube a lot like the big lube bullet I was shooting yesterday. That may be the one I order #43-205C. That three bullet mold should add up a pile of bullets quick. What kind of accuracy are you getting from your 28" 73 ?,,,,,DT

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:39 pm

The Accurate 433205C does indeed pack a lot of bullet lube and works very well with either smokeless or black powder. The three cavity aluminum mold cost me $107 and Tom had it done in a week! I can't shoot a good group every time, but here are a couple of the better targets. Don't pay any attention to the one shot that is always way out of the group. For some reason I do that just about every time!

My rifle doesn't have a lick of finish left on it anywhere, but the dark bore still shows reasonably strong rifling. Here is what it looked like when I first bought it:

Shasta

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:56 pm

Shasta, the Reloader 7 load sure appears accurate. How are its pressures, compared to Black Powder?

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:43 pm

Shasta that is some fine shooting! I agree with southfork that is a very interesting smokeless load Reloader7. That old 73 looks mighty fine to me!!!,,,,DT

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:22 pm

I went to Reloder 7 on the advice of the before mentioned Mr. Kort, who has extensive knowledge of the .44-40. He helped me a great deal while I was working up loads for this rifle. He advised that Reloder 7 develops similar pressure to black powder. This is a very well written post that he made not long back:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=62009

Shasta

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:09 pm

Just wonderin', since it ain't my rifle, but are you SURE you wanna D&T that tang for a sight..?

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:33 am

Buck Elliott wrote:Just wonderin', since it ain't my rifle, but are you SURE you wanna D&T that tang for a sight..?

You just Joshin me now ait Ya Buck!!!!!,,,DT

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:16 am

Just wondering if with the accuracy dropping off if the lube is too stiff, how about adding a tiny amount of olive oil.
Look for a wet black sheriff's badge on the muzzle crown. If it is dry your running dry!

Do remove any mineral oil from the bore too, with bp!

N

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:18 am

Shasta I just put in an order for the same mold that you ordered . The 433 205C three cavity alumimum , 0.433 body dia. Look forward to getting some bullets cast and give the 433-205C a try. ,,,DT

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:29 am

Nath wrote:Just wondering if with the accuracy dropping off if the lube is too stiff, how about adding a tiny amount of olive oil.
Look for a wet black sheriff's badge on the muzzle crown. If it is dry your running dry!

Do remove any mineral oil from the bore too, with bp!

N

Nath I have used olive oil in the mix. in the past , and it has worked . But these Texas Summer temps. and the old rifles bore may have more to do with the accuracy falling off than the lube . Not sure, as that was all that I had that day to test 10 rounds. When I get my new mold I will be able to cast and shoot more test loads . Thanks for your advise. The fun of Bp. loading is getting there! ,,,DT

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:00 pm

Dusty Texian wrote:
Nath wrote:Just wondering if with the accuracy dropping off if the lube is too stiff, how about adding a tiny amount of olive oil.
Look for a wet black sheriff's badge on the muzzle crown. If it is dry your running dry!

Do remove any mineral oil from the bore too, with bp!

N
Nath I have used olive oil in the mix. in the past , and it has worked . But these Texas Summer temps. and the old rifles bore may have more to do with the accuracy falling off than the lube . Not sure, as that was all that I had that day to test 10 rounds. When I get my new mold I will be able to cast and shoot more test loads . Thanks for your advise. The fun of Bp. loading is getting there! ,,,DT

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:23 am

I loaded up more of the same bullet /load combo as the last post, the only change is that a small ammount of olive oil was added to the lube mix. Nath suggested that change and I will give it a try on my next shoot. Am looking forward to getting the 433-205C mold in from Accurate Molds. If the rifle will chamber this size bullet as cast Great ! But I am making plans for sizing the .433" down until the rifle chamber will allow it to chamber/feed . Still waiting on the long tang screws required for the thick base Winchester tang sight. Will post results ASAP,,,,,,,DT

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:23 pm

Dusty,
A very nice piece of Winchester history added to your collection! Thank you for sharing.
Just wondering if your Accurate Mold has arrived? Tom sure does nice work. At last count I have 9 of his molds in .30 - .45 caliber and they all have been very well made.

Regarding the fouling issue, most likely the hot dry temps are playing a role. I do know that here in the Northeast (PA) with humidity rarely going below 50%, I have fired 100 rounds in a row (accurate bullet / SPG Lube) in a 24" .44-40 with no foul out and accuracy being maintained throughout.

Shasta,
Glad to see that the Accurate mold has worked well in your vintage Winchester.
Thank you for the update.

w30wcf

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:40 am

w30wcf wrote:Dusty,
A very nice piece of Winchester history added to your collection! Thank you for sharing.
Just wondering if your Accurate Mold has arrived? Tom sure does nice work. At last count I have 9 of his molds in .30 - .45 caliber and they all have been very well made.

Regarding the fouling issue, most likely the hot dry temps are playing a role. I do know that here in the Northeast (PA) with humidity rarely going below 50%, I have fired 100 rounds in a row (accurate bullet / SPG Lube) in a 24" .44-40 with no foul out and accuracy being maintained throughout.

Shasta,
Glad to see that the Accurate mold has worked well in your vintage Winchester.
Thank you for the update.

w30wcf

Hello w30wcf, you bet the Accurate mold arrived here very quick, and it was my first purchase from them . I was very pleased with the quality of the mold. Very well made and makes very nice looking bullets. I ordered the same style as Shasta , 3 cavity aluminum 43-205C . My first try with the mold was with WW material. The bullets droped @ .434+ body Dia. and weighed 210gr. Very good looking bullets and loaded in Starline cases over a 36gr. charge of 2FF Swiss Bp. they cycle through my action slick as glass. Hope to get a chance and try them for accuracy in the old 73. I have mounted a Winchester thick base long range tang sight on the old rifle . That will help me quite a bit. Will report back ASAP ,,,,,,DT

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:46 am

Eagerly awaiting your followup range report Dusty, with the new bullets and the tang sight mounted. This is a very inspiring thread!
John, I was thinking SPG, or the late Dan Theodore's White Lightning lube, might help in the Texas heat.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:21 pm

Walker wrote:Posts like this are a good reason to stick around. Very nice.

+ one

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:38 pm

BEEEUUUTIFUL!!

And some pretty good lever action shoot'n!

I have a few old 73s and I've written about my working with them on my web site

www.rvbprecision.com

Daisyman · Post by **Daisyman** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:12 pm

Man, I got a couple 73's, a 38 and a 44. I gotta get them out and go shootin!!! That's a dandy you got there.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:46 am

Guys, do yourselves a favor and go to Roy's blog and read his piece on relining that 1873. Oh to be a machinist and have both the skills and the tools to do good work!

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:52 am

Thanks Fellows . Waiting for the wknd. crowd at the range to clear out. Hope to get over to the range on Monday. Bill you are right , Robert is quite the craftsman. ,,,,,DT

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:17 pm

hondo1892 wrote:Another beautiful old rifle Dusty. Looks like it shoots as good as it looks also.

+1 - both counts!

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:09 pm

Howdy Dusty,
I was wondering if you had a chance to test the Accurate bullets from the mold you had purchased in your vintage 44 WCF?

w30wcf

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:05 pm

Thanks for mentioning my web site....www.rvbprecision.com

I got a couple 73s now and a few 66s to keep them company. Both 38-40 and 44-40. I don't cast for the 44-40 because I could find a mold that carried the amount of lube I like. Now I have...order going in in a few minutes.

Also, what is your RL7 load?

I'd love to see a close up of that set trigger you said the rifle has. I didn't realize Win made a single set trigger. I thought they were always double

Beautiful rifle!

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:16 pm

Ordered...It is now a standard catalog item. $117 including shipping for three cavity / aluminum.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:25 pm

Great looking rifle.

Dusty Texian · Post by **Dusty Texian** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:53 pm

W30WCF Sorry for the delay, just saw you had ask about the 43-205C bullet and 36gr. 2ff Swiss bp. Had the old 73 at the range a couple days ago and tested the bullet / load combo. Set the old rifle on sand bags @ 50yd, useing the Winchester long range tang sight and the trigger set. The old rifle turned in the best shooting to date. All she ever needed was a bullet that fit and carried enough lube in that 28" barrel. I fired 42 rounds that day without wipeing the bore once ,lube started to show on the muzzle at round # 6 . The group could be covered with a coke can bottom. I was VERY HAPPY WITH THE BULLETS PERFORMANCE TO SAY THE LEAST. Will do some more shooting with the 28" 73 soon and post some pics, ,,,,,,DT

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:16 am

Dusty,
Thank you for the range report. Great testimonial!
Glad to see that the Accurate bullet met your expectations.

w30wcf

Shooting the old 1873 44wcf.

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