Savage 99 300 Savage

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:59 pm

Anybody working with some of the newer powders in a 300 Savage? I just picked up a Savage 99 and three pounds of IMR 4451. I was thinking 150 to 165 grain bullets for paper and whitetails. I emailed IMR but will fall out of the chair if they have actually done some load development with a powder that new and a cartridge like the 300 Savage.

I have a bunch of manuals and other powders so I will have no issue working up loads for this rifle I just wanted to try something new. All input appreciated!

Thomas

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:56 pm

I like your spirit, Thomas. There's a good chance you are the lead pioneer on this one.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:16 am

Please keep us updated with the results...

wolfdog · Post by **wolfdog** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:41 am

Yes, please let us know. I have been happy with results using Varget in mine, but that is the "newest" powder I have tried.

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:52 am

earlmck wrote:I like your spirit, Thomas. There's a good chance you are the lead pioneer on this one.

Looks like I stumbled and found myself out front! I figured I would have issues with two things based on the path I have chosen, load data and brass. Well it looks like I am going to have to get a hold of this rifle and get to work. I am hoping the rifle turns up next week but haven't received shipping confirmation yet.

Thomas

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:11 am

4064 is what I have liked with the 150s. Where does 4451 fall on the chart?

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:21 pm

Old Savage wrote:4064 is what I have liked with the 150s. Where does 4451 fall on the chart?

I show it listed between IMR 4350 and H4350. So I am guessing its a bit slower than 4064 you prefer.

Thomas

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:20 pm

Old Savage wrote:4064 is what I have liked with the 150s. Where does 4451 fall on the chart?

As a matter of fact (and after searching through all my digital mag issues), I see where Handloader Magazine issue number 294 says that IMR-4451 falls roughly in the range of IMR-4350. The new powder is mentioned in HL 294 (Feb. 2015), Successful Hunter Mag issue 75 (June 2015), and Handloader Magazine issue number 296 (June 2015).

Handloader 296 says, in part:
"This new series includes three powders: IMR-4166, IMR-4451 and IMR-7977. What makes this more than a ho-hum announcement is the fact that these powders are purported to be less temperature sensitive than many others, and they include the copper fouling reducing additive recently introduced in Hodgdon’s CFE 223 and CFE Pistol. The powders are also touted to offer an ideal loading density and to be environmentally friendly."

The only place I could find loadings online or elsewhere for the IMR-4451 is LoadData.com. There is a slew of cartridges represented in the loadings there, with many .30 caliber variants. But nothing specifically for the .300 Savage.

So maybe anything published here could indeed be the first for the that caliber and powder.

264 Win Mag wrote: Looks like I stumbled and found myself out front!

Zinnng! Yes, the ball is in your court, Thomas!

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:47 pm

Checking the IMR site, I see where they explain their new powder this way:
"Another new Enduron extruded powder, IMR 4451, gives top performance in the venerable 30-06, 270 Winchester and 300 Winchester Short Magnum, to name just a few. This propellant is ideally suited for many, many mid-range burn speed cartridges. Simply scroll through the list of cartridges on the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center, and see how many of your favorite cartridges are covered with this fine powder. Once the shooter tries this one in that favorite cartridge, his search is over!"

Does that mean that this powder might be a bit too slow for the 300 Savage? It sorta sounds that way to me.

I don't want to do something that would deprive the good folks at LoadData.com of their lawful income, so I won't reprint all the results that you can find if you pay the subscription fee. But I don't believe it hurts them if they get some exposure with the data that they offer, minus the actual results. Here is the listing that they have for loads using this powder:
"Load Title: Number of Loads:
.22-250 Remington (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (8)
.243 Winchester (Hodgdon Rifle Data Using IMR Powder) (16)
.25-06 Remington (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (14)
.260 Remington (Hodgdon Data) (10)
.270 Winchester Rifle (Hodgdon Data / IMR Powder) (12)
.280 Remington / 7mm Express Remington (Hodgdon Data) (12)
.280 Remington Ackley Improved / .280 Ackley Improved (Hodgdon Data - IMR Powder) (18)
.30-06 (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (22)
.300 Weatherby Magnum (Hodgdon Data) (16)
.300 Winchester Magnum (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (22)
.300 Winchester Short Magnum / .300 WSM (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (18)
.338 Winchester Magnum (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (18)
.416 Rigby (Hodgdon Data) (6)
.470 Nitro Express / .470 NE (Hodgdon Data) (2)
.257 roberts (10)
6.5 Creedmoor (Hodgdon Data) (10)
6.5-284 (Hodgdon Data) (8)
6.5mm-06 / 6.5-06 (Hodgdon Data) (10)
6.5x55 Swedish Mauser / 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser (Hodgdon Data) (16)
6mm Remington (.244 Remington) (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (12)
7mm Mauser / 7x57mm Mauser (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (16)
7mm Remington Magnum (Hodgdon Data) (18)
7mm-08 Remington (Hodgdon Data Using IMR Powder) (20) "

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:13 pm

Of the new Enduron powders 4166 is the one I probably need for the 300 Savage. I saw some of that at Bass Pro but couldn't convince myself to try it at their prices. The 4451 I was able to order from a local hardware store was a decent price per pound and based on some of what JohndeFresno explained is good for a lot of cartridges that need a mid range burn rate powder. I guess I will use the 4451 on another cartridge unless I hear something different from IMR in response to my inquiry.

Thomas

44shooter · Post by **44shooter** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:23 pm

I'm betting 4166 is similar to 4064 and more appropriate for your loads. Maybe your powder will work well with heavier bullets?

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:57 pm

I am guessing 4166 is close to 3031 or 4895 by looking at the spread they seem to be trying to cover.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:35 pm

44shooter wrote:I'm betting 4166 is similar to 4064 and more appropriate for your loads. Maybe your powder will work well with heavier bullets?

In re-reading Handloader 296, I found this on Page 16, in part:
"Turning attention to the fastest burning of the series, IMR-4166, we find its burning rate very close to that of IMR-4064. In fact, 4166 appears as number 94 and 4064 as number 95 in the “Relative Burn Rates” list in the Hodgdon 2015 Annual Manual." (Bold print is mine - JdeF)

44shooter gets the stuffed bunny.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:22 pm

That would be good, one of my favorite powders.

PriseDeFer · Post by **PriseDeFer** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:34 am

As a kid, first time handloading, 3031 (full charge I'm sure) behind a 110 grain Hollow Point. When the old birdhouse disappeared I began to understand guns.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:01 am

Hoping that this is not taken as a thread stealer, with the best of intentions:
I have not fully researched or tested the newest coolest powders that reportedly clean the copper out of your bore, but I would venture a guess that they are not only more expensive but also harder to obtain.

I have used Wipe-Out bore cleaner (both the fluid and the quicker but more costly foam) quite successfully. It is so easy to apply and so effective that, unless this newer stuff is readily available at a good price, I will stick with the Win 748, IMR 3031, and other old-time favorites for the .30 cal's as mentioned here. Unless one has a really long shooting session with copper ammo, it seems to me that a quick cleaning with Wipe-Out at the end of the day solves all of the problems.

The thread describing this stuff and its testing here is:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 84#p428584

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:39 pm

One of the best powders Ive found for the 300 sav is alliants RL-15 and its twin norma 203b, with 165s&180s my 99 is grouping 3/4 inch. Use a lee FCD it will cut your groups in half. RL-15 was used in military LC 168 gr ammo and 4064 is the current powder used for the military in the LC 175 gr ammo. danny

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:57 pm

I did get a pound of IMR 3031 when I purchased the IMR 4451

Sounds like I need to see what it can do with that. Postman just dropped off my dies, the brown truck should be here with the brass and bullets anytime now.

Thomas

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:38 am

I just received the August 2015 issue of Shooting Times today. I suspect that this is the best, most complete write-up of the three new IMR Enduron powders to date. There are loadings and results of 11 calibers run by staffer Steve Gash, from .204 Ruger through 300 Win. Magnum and .45-70 (for the Marlin 1895) although there is no .300 Savage loading shown. The article is a keeper.

Savage 99 300 Savage

Savage 99 300 Savage

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Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage

Re: Savage 99 300 Savage