Photo study--New Winchester vs. Uberti

[OD#3]

I've discovered that Miroku constructs their 1873 quite a bit differently than Uberti, and today I took some pics to highlight some of the more obvious ones. Perhaps some here might find this study in pictures helpful.

First, just the obligatory intro photos...



I noticed just from production photos that some of the contours of the Miroku looked "different". So today, I took some photos and made some intersecting lines from some of the frame reference points. There are obvious differences....





The side plates have a different curve. The Winchester comes to a point in the rear at a higher position than the Uberti, and the frame rises earlier toward the front...


And the frame rakes back further at the bottom near the carrier...



Some other differences...







The breech areas are treated much differently. The beveled chamber mouth on the Miroku seems to be an improvement. The only ammo I had on hand to test cycling with was some Keith semiwadcutters crimped over the front driving band. These are notorious for jamming on the chamber mouth on my Uberti, but they fed smooth as glass in the Miroku....



Try as I might, I cannot figure out why Miroku deviates from the originals in this next area. First the Uberti...


The Miroku is a lot different. However, contrary to the caption, I don't think Miroku machines their receiver deeper in these areas. They just machine different relief areas for the side plates which creates the illusion of deeper cuts elsewhere...




Despite these differences, many of which seem to deviate from original Winchesters more than the Uberti does, the overall quality is definitely better. You noticed the smoother machining inside the receiver. Next, the side plates...





More authentic-looking tang, but lousy hammer knurling...


Less authentic-looking tang, but beautiful hammer...



Here's an area that is often neglected on Uberti rifles. Sometimes, the owner has to file this bevel himself, but Miroku does a nice job here (lack of a bevel will sometimes cause the rim to catch here, which tilts the round to the side and jams things up).


I tore this Winchester down completely today. I still haven't made it to the range yet, but my assessment so far is that the Miroku version of the Winchester '73 is sort of a "product improvement" project. It is not as authentic a copy of the original as their old 1892's and 1886's were, but the build quality is still top notch and a cut above Uberti. Given the close price point between the two, and pending the outcome of the range trip, I would definitely recommend the Winchester over the Uberti.

[Ysabel Kid]

Very cool post!

[crs]

Well done, thanks. All my Miroku made Winchesters and Parkers are of very good quality.

[GonnePhishin]

Very impressive photography and commentary. Just from looking at your pictures, without knowing anything else, I would say that the Miroku was better quality. Let us know how it shoots.
PS, both are very nice looking rifles.

[TedH]

I have no doubt about the quality of the Miroku, but I sure do like the looks of the Uberti a whole bunch more.

[OD#3]

To be sure, the Uberti is more authentic-looking. My Uberti is every bit as smooth as the Winchester, but the Uberti didn't start out that way. I had some trouble with it at the beginning and had to do a bit of work to it before it behaved the way it was supposed to. That's why I'm so enthusiastic about this Winchester. Every Uberti or Pietta firearm I've ever purchased has needed some work--especially the revolvers. It has been said that Uberti and Pietta revolvers are nothing more than pre-assembled kits, and my experience has borne this out. Their rifles are much better, but both the 1860 Henry I had and this 1873 needed some attention before they were behaving like they should have been when they left Uberti's factory. To be fair, I did replace the Winchester's firing pin extension with one from Pioneer Gun Works, but that was just to get rid of the silly safety thing that Winchester's lawyers insisted upon. It wasn't necessary and was just a personal preference of mine.

I have a Browning 1886 and a Browning B92--both manufactured by Miroku. It was their outstanding quality that convinced me to seek out a Miroku 1873, and my impression so far is that this 1873 is every bit as well made. But I do have to concede that the Uberti is more authentic-looking.

[gamekeeper]

Very interesting post, thanks for taking the time to put together the excellent photos and text.
I used to have an early production Uberti 73 carbine, it had the correct front sight and a butt plate with the trap door, I noticed that later models didn't.

[RIHMFIRE]

Excellent post.....both quality guns but....
I prefer the looks and quality of the uberti..over the japchesters..
From the finish to the proofmarks and stamps...
There is something about the blue finish of japchester I don't care for....

except for the darn heavy triggers....

range report should be just as interesting....

[Pete44ru]

.

Kudos, on a very interesting post/comparison - not to mention the great pics with the reference lines & comments !

Well worth a leverguns forum award of sticky-ness............


.

[vancelw]

I have no doubt about the quality of the Miroku, but I sure do like the looks of the Uberti a whole bunch more.

You can get a Miroku that looks like the Uberti. Made for Navy Arms. But, the price nearly doubles.

Miroku offers one with the Winchester label as well.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/ ... mid=534217

Model-73-Sporter-Octagon-Case-Hardened-534217-1714l.jpg

[Griff]

Kudos, on a very interesting post/comparison - not to mention the great pics with the reference lines & comments !
Well worth a leverguns forum award of sticky-ness............

+1

[7.62 Precision]

Thanks for this post. I have been wondering how they compare.

[1894c]

as others have said...nice post, great pics too... :)

[OD#3]

I prefer the looks and quality of the uberti..over the japchesters..

One of the ironies of these "Japchesters", as many of the scornful like to refer to them, is the contempt many folks have for what most often stems from the pain of seeing a Japanese-produced firearm branded with an iconic American name. I think it was easier for people to swallow the Browning brand on Miroku rifles, because the Browning Arms Company has always existed as a marketer or importer of firearms manufactured by others--they were just usually John Browning-designed guns.

So when Browning had Miroku make the 1892, 1886, and 1895, people were just glad to see these guns being made again and to such a high standard of quality. And by the time they did, Winchester's reputation for quality had already fallen; if Winchester had tried to produce them at New Haven, they would have probably been sloppily made.

Since John Browning didn't design the 1873, they never had Miroku reproduce it. Winchester and its successor, U.S. Repeating Arms, just continued to flounder until they finally closed down entirely. Uberti has been the only game in town for 1873 rifles, and they've been at it a very long time. The quality of their rifles has always been pretty good, and prices have remained pretty high. My own Uberti was purchased new a few years ago at an LGS. Better prices are to be had online, but it cost me nearly $1,200 then, and it still required some tweaking to get it to behave like it was supposed to.

Now that FN owns both Browning and Winchester, Winchester has gone the way of Browning--it is a marketer of firearms produced by others. But unlike Browning, people just aren't used to seeing the name "Winchester" stamped on stuff not produced at New Haven, and it is hard for many folks to swallow that. For me, however, Winchester's acquisition was a real boon. Miroku's rifles would no longer be limited to John Browning's designs, and the 1873 became a possibility.

I don't like the added safeties, and some of the other departures on this "modernized" rifle appear at first glance to be neither manufacturing expediencies nor strength enhancements. Uberti makes 19th Century reproductions. Miroku makes something that looks more like what we would have expected Winchester to have been making if they had continued production of the 1873 alongside their 94's up through the early 1960's. The Winchester name on my rifle carries no weight with me. The only name on this rifle that gives me confidence is "Miroku"--that is the name that is synonymous with quality for me. Time will tell, but the eventual irony may be that the brand "Winchester", rather than enhancing a foreign-made gun's acceptability to the majority of uninformed Americans, will regain its reputation for quality only because it was made by Miroku.

This wasn't necessarily a rebuttal of your preference for Uberti over Miroku, RIHMFIRE. To each his own, and appearance is probably half the reason classic obsolete firearms are successfully reborn in the first place. But including "quality" in your list of reasons to prefer Uberti was puzzling to me.

[Malamute]

I've long been a fan of 1886's. I've had several originals, though in my price range, they've been modified or the less desirable versions for the time, (and I didnt appraciate 33's at the time either).

When the Browning 1886's came out, I had mixed feelings. I had a hard time getting past the japanese part. I finally gave in and bought a used 1886 rifle, and have been hooked ever since. I havent been disappointed in the quality of any of the Miroku guns I've had or seen. I have no reservations about any Miroku versions of Winchesters. Added safety widgets can be dealt with if desired.

[J Miller]

Now that this thread seems to have run it's course here's a thought I had.

It would be nice if someone with deep pockets would round up an original Winchester 1873, an Uberti and a Miroku version and do a comparison to see which is closer in all respects to the original.

Joe

[Griff]

Now that this thread seems to have run it's course here's a thought I had.

It would be nice if someone with deep pockets would round up an original Winchester 1873, an Uberti and a Miroku version and do a comparison to see which is closer in all respects to the original.

Joe

+1.

One a side note, I just looked at my 2 Uberti '73s. The extractor/dust cover cuts in the breech are different on the 2. The older, (1986) is not 2 separate cuts as shown above, although the extractor cut is not as wide as the slot for the dust cover. The newer one, (2014) does have the separate cuts for extractor and dust cover. I'm not thinking this is a negative.