OT - Air gun advice

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:34 am

On one of my first scouting trips, I was all enthused because I saw so many rabbits on my way in. This was in the Angeles NF, but in an area barred for firearm use. I looked down the road, and every 20 feet there was another rabbit. As I walked, the near ones would hide, but they'd come back out after I passed. I thought it would be the same once I got into the shooting area, but, once there, saw nothing. Apparently these rabbits were used to people.

I thought, well, too bad, can't hunt them. But I was perusing the regulations today and saw that I can use an airgun to hunt rabbits. Quail, too. And (I have to check this) I should be able to fire an airgun in these non-firearm areas, since an airgun is not classified as a firearm. So, if that works out, I might be able to go hunting near my house with an airgun. Save wear and tear on my ears as well.

Does anybody have advice for airgun types, calibers, pistol vs. rifle, etc.? What kinds of airguns do you like?

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:38 am

SHERIDAN 5MM RIFLE.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:32 am

I have two. One is an RWS 48 in 22 cal. , the other is an
inexpensive Beeman (SS1000?) - came with a scope and
everything. I have good luck with both. The Beeman is made
in China. I've heard some have had trouble with them, but
mine shoots great. Beeman Silver Arrow pellets go right
through red squirrels at 25 yards - end to end even! Gamo
also makes a good inexpensive rifle.

Or you can buy a Theoben ro something really nice, but you're
talking a grand or better. They are pre-charged air
(hi-pressure from a scuba tank). Lovely, but pricey.

The RWS 48 is a little over $400 now, and does take some
getting used to. The Gamo or Beeman low end option will
set you back $150 to $250, and will kill bunnies all day.

One word of warning, though: If you're like me, you'll get
a bit hooked on air rifles. Just step out the back door for
target practice. Doesn't annoy the neighbors, cheap to shoot,
and doesn't need cleaning anywhere near as much as a gun
that uses powder. I plink with mine all the time. With practice
sub-1-inch groups at 35 yards is normal.

Good Luck!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:26 am

Sobenk,

I have several air rifles and I shoot them all the time. My back door air rifle is a Beeman (imported by them) HW 97K in .20 cal with a 3x9x40 and I shoot Diabolo Exact pellets out of it. The scope is a mil dot reticled scope which I love for air rifles. I can't tell you how many bunnies I have taken with it but its quite a few. It is an under lever rifle so one stoke of its "lever" allows you to load the pellet and cocks the mechanism. The safety is automatic so you have to take it off before every shot. Not a bad feature in air rifles. It has a target adjustable trigger that is the envy of all other spring ram air rifles. It also has a silencer built in.

I also own a Theoben Rapid 7 with a Bushnell 3200 4x12x40 on it. It is a PCP (precharged air) rifle, in 22 cal and is the most accurate gun I have ever owned. It comes with clips that you can load 7 shots in and all you have to do to shoot it when full is cycle the bolt to cock and load the rifle. It is a beautiful rifle, extremely accurate, silent (fully baffled barrel) and the trigger is fabulous. This rifle starts at 1200, the scope was 300. It has no safety.

The third air rifle I have is a Benjamin/Sheridan in .22 that has been reworked to extend the stroke arm, increase the velocity and replaced the air valve. It has a rear peep site. This is the work horse and is a blast to shoot but it is louder than the other two, takes more work to load and prep for each shot, is lighter to carry and is a lot cheaper as it comes from the factory. The Beeman was about 500 and I have that in this rifle to upgrade the features. Because of this Rifle, the Theoben is up for sale for 900 and will come with the lepers scope off the first rifle.
Terry has the choice right, for starting out, the Benjamin / Sheridan in .22 is a great walk around and shoot pellet rifle. After you get it broken in, have the work done on it to upgrade it and the cocking will be better, the power will increase and rifle will be more accurate. As it comes from the factory, it will fit your needs well.
Images below are the Theoben with bunnies and the HW97k with a tree rat. I have not taken any pics of the Sheridan.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:59 am

You've got all kinds of options. I'd suggest you take a look at http://www.pyramidair.com and see what's there that tickles your fancy and fits your wallet. I picked up a Gamo CFX in February, fitted it with a http://www.charliedatuna.com after market trigger, put a Leapers 3X9 scope on it and proceeded to have fun. No hunting around here, but it does good on the range and I'm going to propose a kind of field trial competition at the gun club annual meeting later today. Anyway, getting back to types.

You've got the break barrel types that use the barrel as a lever to cock. They're fairly fast to load/reload and some of them are fairly powerful now.

There's the under/side lever types which have a fixed barrel and use a separate lever to cock the gun. They aren't as fast for a load/reload but have a theoretical advantage when it comes to inherent accuracy. Some folks claim this is only theoretical, others claim it is factual. All I know is that I don't like the idea of using my barrel as a lever.

Then there's the multipump pneumatic rifles. They can be used for a wide variety of things, but are the slowest for a follow up shot. I grew up with a Daisy 880 and we hunted with them a lot. The current crop of plastic receivers and such leave me cold (on the Daisy 880) but the concept of being able to use from 2 to "X" pumps (some hot rodded ones can be pumped up to 15 or more times) allowing for anything from "scat kitty" to fairly good sized game (for an airgun) shooting is attractive.

And then there's the precharged pneumatics. You charge up the reservoir and then go shooting. Some of them are VERY powerful (even up into the 9mm, 45, 50 caliber range) and usually have plenty of reserve for an afternoon of hunting.

And, of course, the CO2 guns. Most of which are not in the hunting range as far as power goes. The old adage of "use enough gun" applies to airguns too. If you opt for CO2 then make sure you've got one that will generate the velocity needed.

As for plinking bunnies? I'd use my current Gamo CFX for such an endeavor with no qualms. A 22 caliber version would probably be better, but we took game that's a lot tougher than cotton tails (iguana, possum, tiÃº) with the lowly 177 caliber guns.

Take a look at Benjamin's new Discovery (I THINK that's the name) airgun. It's an affordable (comparatively) precharged pneumatic air rifle made in the US of A. Just came out this year and can be had with pump for under $400. http://www.pyramydair.com/p/benjamin-di ... ifle.shtml

Anyway, look around. There's a good rifle just waiting for some hunting action out there.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:03 am

Dang Mike, you had to go and post that pic again!

The Sheridan was always enough when we were kids.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:09 am

rjohns94 -

Say I took your and Terry's advice and got a Benjamin/Sheridan .22. Where would I have the work done that you are talking about and is there anywhere where you can buy a Benjamin/Sheridan that already has the work done on it as you described.

EDIT: Which Benjamin/Sheridan would you recommend? Would the Benjamin Super Streak in .22 be a good choice? Cabela's has it for $299.99 . Where do you buy your air rifles?

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:18 am

Modoc ED wrote:rjohns94 -

Say I took your and Terry's advice and got a Benjamin/Sheridan .22. Where would I have the work done that you are talking about and is there anywhere where you can buy a Benjamin/Sheridan that already has the work done on it as you described.

One of the names I keep hearing when it comes to slicking up the Benjamin/Sheridan rifles is MAC1 airguns. Here's the link to the page on Benjamins.

http://www.mac1airgun.com/steriodags.html

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:22 am

AmBraCol wrote:
Modoc ED wrote:rjohns94 -

Say I took your and Terry's advice and got a Benjamin/Sheridan .22. Where would I have the work done that you are talking about and is there anywhere where you can buy a Benjamin/Sheridan that already has the work done on it as you described.

One of the names I keep hearing when it comes to slicking up the Benjamin/Sheridan rifles is MAC1 airguns. Here's the link to the page on Benjamins.

http://www.mac1airgun.com/steriodags.html

Thanks Paul. I'll check it out.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:24 am

I have owned many a air gun, BSA, Webley, Sheriden, Titan, Crosman, Daisey and Wierauch.
Now I stick to a Weirauch and allways the 177- flatter and faster and seems to buck the wind better.
I have killed thousands of rabbit and Squirrels with air guns and allways done better with the 177

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:29 am

Nath wrote:I have owned many a air gun, BSA, Webley, Sheriden, Titan, Crosman, Daisey and Wierauch.
Now I stick to a Weirauch and allways the 177- flatter and faster and seems to buck the wind better.
I have killed thousands of rabbit and Squirrels with air guns and allways done better with the 177

Plus you guys are also under some draconian restrictions on airguns, aren't you? Seems I've heard that there's a certain powerlevel you're not allowed to cross (without risking the wrath of those who "know best"). My biggest challenge in getting the CFX Gamo in was to convince the customs folks that it was not a "war toy" but rather a "sporting implement" - and I even had to print out the copy of the Colombian statutes on weapons which state that air guns are NOT regulated here... Anyway, I've never owned a 22 caliber airgun. The 177's always given me good service.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:44 am

Modoc I got my work done at Mac1airguns.com. they occassionally have ones with the work already done for sale. not often but that is how I came by mine. THhe 392 model is what I would start with.

the 177 is flatter shooting, but for longer ranges, you will need either a .20 or .22. The .22 retains more energy and the Theoben is very accurate out to 75 yards or more. The .20 has taken small game out to 50 yards consistantly. That is about the limit on .177. My theoben starts with 30fpe, the HW97K is 16fpe.

Hobie, why don't you just break down and buy the Theoben from me.

For you, I will let you keep the Bushnell scope all for 1k. we can even do payment plans. PM if you want to talk about it.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:09 am

I'll bet Hobie's frothin' at the mouth with a wild look in his eye
as he stands amid the shards of his shattered piggy-bank countin'
his pennies........

That's sorta where I am - I just don't have the scratch
right now....

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:41 am

rjohns94 wrote:Modoc I got my work done at Mac1airguns.com. they occassionally have ones with the work already done for sale. not often but that is how I came by mine. THhe 392 model is what I would start with.

Thanks. I'll look into the 392 and I'll go to the Mac1airguns.com link that Paul posted. I'd like to get a .22 caliber.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:06 pm

Now I'm not telling any one as to which bore they should get but my findings are very similar to center fire ratings when it comes to them awfull ft-lbs! They mean absolutly nothing-zilch!
If we rated all calibers on ft-lbs then we can forget the likes of the 44-40 as a deer getter and so on- very foolish!
Air guns have very little of those dreaded ft-lbs, they rely heavily on being placed just in the right spot just like our bows (and look what they can do) however unlike our bows them pellets have very little mass and hence do not want to penertrate. Take a look at the surface area of a 22 pell nose and a 177. In all the 22's I ever used I would rarly get a pass through however the 177 would regular. Couple this with a flatter traj and you can shoot'm in the head alot further out.
Yes our crumby country has a 12ft-lb limit (never been checked though

) which does leave us handicapped but even when I have owned 22's going as quick as the 177 at around 800fps the 22 still run out of steam quicker. No give me a 177 airgun any time. I have even shot two fox's with one 177 doing 900fps
Nath.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:37 pm

One of those Benjamin/Sheridan .177 look like a lot of fun. How fast are the pellets after being reworked?
I think the .177 would be fine since I would not plan to scope it for extremely long range use. I see Williams makes a receiver peep sight for it.
You guys are a very bad influence

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:18 pm

Scott,
THe pages on Mac1 tell the whole story. IIRC his Steroid Streak gets around 900 FPS in the .22 version.

I know I made it a habit of purchasing my son something nice every year when he completed a year of school. One year I bought him a BSA Supersport in .22. So I could shoot with him I got myself a Benjamin .22.

I shot them both over a Chrony and the Benjamin, while more work to shoot is more consistent on a shot to shot basis. Plus it's made in the USA.

I have the peep sight on mine and love it. MAC1 also sells his own designed scope mount if you're so inclined, that is better than the factory model.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:27 pm

Thanks Rusty, I looked it over pretty good and couldn't find info on the .177. Could be me though

800FPS stock is probably good enough anyways.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:58 pm

I can't recommend the .22 high enough for small game. There is a difference from my observations on a well hit animal with a 177 and a .22. The .22 offers a bigger area in which the shot can be effective. ie, if the an animal has an instant kill area of an inch in dia with a .177, the kill area due to energy on the target may be twice that. Tree rats and bunnies will die to any well placed shot but the .22 just kills them better. The sheridan .22 is a better small game rifle than the sheridan .177. I have had both and I just found that to be so. Not taking away from what has been said, just telling my experience. Check out the Adventuresin airguns.com forum and ask their opinion. I would think they would mostly agree.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:32 pm

With the greatest of respect rjohns I ask of you, how do you get deader than dead or better dead?

Nath.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:49 pm

I noticed in the CA regs you must have a .22 to shoot turkey.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:36 pm

With all due respect sir, IF you make a perfect shot everytime, the .177 will take small game everytime. However, if you don't make the perfect shot, I'd rather have the .22 over the .177 to provide the "extra dead" it can provide. I don't claim to be a perfect shot and I have found that the animals die faster, get hit harder, run less, and on non perfect shots, die where .177 shots in the same spot would not yield a kill. Just my experience. They make a .25 too but I have not shot one. In fact, they make big bore air rifles too. Whole nother topic.

I gave me .177's up for the .20 and .22 based on my experience. I am happy to be able to shoot higher fpe guns than you are allowed and I choose more fpe available out of the .22 over the .177. Thats what makes this all fun. Rifles and calibers to suit all folk.

blessings.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:00 pm

Nath wrote:With the greatest of respect rjohns I ask of you, how do you get deader than dead or better dead?

Nath.

Nath -

DEAD is when you shoot and kill an animal and it simply falls over on it's side and dies.

DEADER THAN DEAD is when you shoot and kill an animal and it falls and ends up "tits up/feet up" and dies.

BETTER DEAD is when you shoot and kill an animal and it's fur is blown completly off AND it lands "tits up/feet up" too and dies.

I like your posts and hearing about things in your part of the world. When I was in the U. S. Navy, I was stationed in Edzell, Scotland for two years.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:44 pm

i was in Holy Loch Scotland off and on for 12 years.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:52 pm

rjohns94 wrote:i was in Holy Loch Scotland off and on for 12 years.

Were you a "Bubble Head" or on one of the Tenders? Sure did like Scotland and nothing was better than a "nip and a pint" at the local pubs.

Iron_Marshal · Post by **Iron_Marshal** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:55 pm

The latest (Mar / Apr) edition of The Backwoodsman has an article on Big Bore Airguns written by Jock Elliot.The article shows a picture of a 2000 lb Bison shot and killed with a Quackenbush LA .457 Safari airgun.

You don't need a SCUBA tank to recharge them either. It is certainly faster, but a hand pump, similar to a bicycle pump is sufficient.

Go to a bookstore and find a copy of the latest Backwoodsman...You'll get hooked like I have.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:09 pm

Well it just goes to show our differant tastes rjohns and good for you, lets both of us keep bringing home the bacon with what ever the size of pellet we use or what ever the amount of powder behind the bullet or whatever the colour of the smoke even.
I will maintain my opinion though that dead is dead whether we have to wait a moment or two or whether the critter is a steaming blob of snot.
Good luck, Nath.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:41 pm

Nath wrote:I will maintain my opinion though that dead is dead whether we have to wait a moment or two or whether the critter is a steaming blob of snot. Good luck, Nath.

I remember the CBC pellet guns some friends of ours had when we were getting up. Our Daisy 880's shot a LOT harder than them by far. There was a one eyed iguana out behind our house for awhile that some kid had shot with one of the low power CBC's. The pellet went in behind the left eye and stayed stuck in the top of the skull. The Daisy would have put the pellet clear through on an angle like that. Anyway, 177 is all that was available back then and we made good use of it. There's some 22 cal stuff around here in Colombia, but I still favor the 177. It'll take down anything I need to shoot with a pellet gun, even if it's not skinned and cleaned by the shot... And this new Gamo CFX gives a new definition to power when compared to the 880 - and no need to pump it up either.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:02 pm

i was a bubblehead for a few years.

Irish Cop, the pumps look like a bike pump but there the similarity goes. The pumps, like air force, generate more than 3000psi where a bike pump does 125 or so. Most of the big bore shooters use a charging tank, stored at 4500 psi so they can get multiple fills to 3000. They are filled at scuba shops, paintball shops, or fire depts. the tanks are very small and portable as compared to a scuba tank.

Nath,
your points are very well taken and you have taken more game than I with the .177. I am just voicing my opinion and I hope no offense was taken. As for dead vs dead, you are correct, dead is dead.

blessings

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:03 pm

HOBIE< You wont have to look at that picture or be tempted again. The Theoben sold a few mins ago.

Blessings.

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:18 pm

Sheridan in 5MM is a a great rabbit gun. I always shot mine with iron sights as I didn't like the then existing mounting system. I had a Williams peep on it. That 5mm pellet is a real killer it weigh what the 22 does but penetrates due to the smaller caliber. Sheridan never offered the 22 until they picked up Benjamin, that was the impetus (not that the 22 isn't great also). Airguns are like pistols etc... where a big bullet is the efficiency deal. However, with pneumatics you have to pump a lot to get the energy at least out of the box, so I found the .20 a good compromise. The Sheridan makes a great field gun, no power fall off, light weight, handy, good trigger, lots of power for rabbits. The only downside is I find them tedious for a lot of plinking, which is another great pleasure with airguns.

I love spring guns. I've owned them all. I always think of them as "real" airguns, just in the sense that you are using your calories to power the gun, like a bow. And the best spring guns like the Theoben (gas spring) are very efficient. One hardly notices the cocking force. However, these are all single shots. In hunting efficiency having extra repeater shots with a pre-charged gun is great. I just prefer the zero hassle of always haveing a gun that is ready to go, no tanks to replace and so forth. My one gripe about the superb Theoben, was that the trigger that had had was terrible. The oppsite of a glass rod surprise break. A big mushy thing one was always trying to second guess. Theoben with a Weirauch trigger would be the best. There was a Weirauch with a theoben gas ram, though i haven't tried that one.

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:00 pm

I know it's not in the same league as the rifles you guys shoot,but I bought a Winchester last week and I'm pretty happy with it. They actually put a real,honest to Betsy walnut stock on it and it's a nice full size rifle.
So far the .177 caliber has done a number on the tree rats chewing up my fruit trees.

.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:02 pm

This air gun post keeps going don't it

I got up this morning and on the way to put the kettle on I checked the window that I can shoot crows and magpies from that perch in a larch and yep there was a crow

I grabbed the Wierauch 95 177 and popped one in it's middle. It did just what I expected with the pellets I'm using, it gapped it's mouth and took flight for about 40yds and tumbled out of the sky. Shot distance I guess is under 30yds.

Now there maybe air guns that could of made that crow deader better but it is dead good enough for me

(Sorry, could not resist. I have asked the Mrs to slap me

)
I very rarely check the zero and when I do no adjustment is required, I don't have to fill any tanks and I don't have to pump my self silly

It's a good ole springer for me

Nath.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:15 pm

Nath -

That crow would have been "better dead" if when you'd shot it, all the feathers had been blown off and it had landed claws up.

Have a good one!!!

Gamekeeper Junior · Post by **Gamekeeper Junior** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:23 pm

Nath wrote:Air guns have very little of those dreaded ft-lbs, they rely heavily on being placed just in the right spot just like our bows (and look what they can do) however unlike our bows them pellets have very little mass and hence do not want to penertrate. Take a look at the surface area of a 22 pell nose and a 177. In all the 22's I ever used I would rarly get a pass through however the 177 would regular. Couple this with a flatter traj and you can shoot'm in the head alot further out.
Yes our crumby country has a 12ft-lb limit (never been checked though ) which does leave us handicapped but even when I have owned 22's going as quick as the 177 at around 800fps the 22 still run out of steam quicker. No give me a 177 airgun any time. Nath.

My experience with .177 and.22 airguns has been pretty much the same. I can't speak for more powerful air rifles but when limited to 12 ft-lb the .177 wins hands down.
I believe that the important thing with air rifles is accuracy and penetration. As the .177 is flatter shooting you can make well placed shots at longer range than with a .22. Penetration is also superior which is imortant on longer range shots. The only times i've had more success with a .22 is on close range shots as it imparts more of its energy than the .177 which will pass through without doing as much damage. I try to go for just headshots on rabbits etc. so overpenetration isn't an issue.

They'll both do the job but i've found the .177 suits me best.

Gamekeeper Junior · Post by **Gamekeeper Junior** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:27 pm

Nath wrote: I don't have to fill any tanks and I don't have to pump my self silly
It's a good ole springer for me
Nath.

Same here, I use a Webley xocet. Cheap but effective.

Well done on the crow.
Elliot

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:58 pm

Gamekeepers: I agree, that is why my Beeman(Wierauch) HK97K is my go to gun. I like the simplicity of a single stroke and a single well placed shot. I also like the added fpe that we can enjoy to give that .20 the punch I like. Well done on the crow!! I have been knocking off starlings and sparrows daily here.

blessings.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:12 pm

rjohns94 wrote:HOBIE< You wont have to look at that picture or be tempted again. The Theoben sold a few mins ago.

Blessings.

Bless you for telling me and the buyer for removing said temptation...

Mokwaw · Post by **Mokwaw** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:12 am

sobenck...check out www.sportsmansguide.com they have a Beeman dual caliber air rifle combo and also a Hammerli dual caliber rifle...this way you have both in one rifle....they also carry a variety of brands........by the way I had an RWS 45 .177 deadly on rabbits..........like bolt lightening on groud squirrels..........

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:36 am

I will maintain my opinion though that dead is dead whether we have to wait a moment or two or whether the critter is a steaming blob of snot.

I love this place!!

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:40 pm

GK jr, nowt wrong with them Webley Exocets, I think they are Weirauch based.
I had One of them RWS 45 in 177, that was a good'n too. Forgot about that one.
A 22 is good for splatting rats, yeah.
Nath.