Best semiauto 12-gauge for Home Defense...?

[AJMD429]

I have never owned a semiauto shotgun, but after seeing some of my more petite and/or female family members struggle with a pump shotgun, wondered what semiautos might fill that role.

I have an 8-shot Mossberg pump I like, so something in the 8-shot realm would be nice.

Thought about a Saiga, but the local funshops seem not to get them in lately.

[Pete44ru]

.

Benelli M1 or M2 Slug Gun.

http://www.benelliusa.com/sites/default ... k=ZjQPpWv4


.

[Griff]

I have never thought any long gun is the best defense against a home invasion. For defense of an attack, before it comes inside, a rifle is usually better suited to the majority of circumstances. The shotgun, either pump or semi-auto, is a good "clearing" weapon when on patrol around a perimeter of an enclosed space.

But, again, that's just my opinion. However, it is based on some small amount of training and experience.

[Blaine]

There are some real nice Child Size pumps out there. A 20 gauge with reduced Buck, or slug reloads (to attenuate the noise) would be cool....

[arjunky]

This is what I have. 930 Watchdog Mossberg.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =461616752

Byron

[Tycer]

I put together an 1100 with a 22" barrel, long mag tube and short stock. We both know 1100s well and it makes the most sense for us to use what we know.

[jhrosier]

I have a Remington 1100 that has always been reliable. However, I would consider the difficulty of loading a tube magazine quickly during an emergency.

At the risk of appearing to jump on the "modern sporting rifle" bandwagon, a lightweight AR carbine might prove to be a better choice for home defense than a shotgun.

Jack

[pdentrem]

Not an auto but clip feed for quick reloads. If one needs a reload after 6.

http://www.tacticalimports.ca/sap6-p-276.html

[AJMD429]

Like the Saiga, this other 'AK' type one sure spits lead out fast - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkHSHlz ... r_embedded

Then so does the lowly Mossberg 930... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2BvJzq ... detailpage ...for half the cost.

At the risk of appearing to jump on the "modern sporting rifle" bandwagon, a lightweight AR carbine might prove to be a better choice for home defense than a shotgun.

True - the above discussion may be moot for my household (this query was started considering a couple friends and relatives who'd asked me for advice), 'cuz the 300 Blk AR pistol seems to be functioning quite well, so once I get enough ammo accumulated for serious practice and function testing, it could well become the in-house go-to. Unfortunately, it is both illegal and unwise to leave the suppressor in it while easily accessible (actually, according to an ATF agent I talked to, even having it in a gun safe where a non-stamp-owner has the combination is illegal, but long ago my family realized I wasn't giving the combination out to anyone nohow... ).

[Streetstar]

I put together an 1100 with a 22" barrel, long mag tube and short stock. We both know 1100s well and it makes the most sense for us to use what we know.

Older 1100 , pre Cerberus, --- even going back to the 80's or before (we all know the older Wingmaster 870's make superb HD guns with the addition of a shorter barrel, why not apply that same philosophy to the auto loader?

Source a nice older 1100, replace/rebuild anything internally that needs it , install 20-22" barrel and the mag extender of your choice and voila ---- might not be as cheap as getting a new "Express class" 1100 off a showroom this way, but should be GTG for a lot of years, -- and if you retain the wood furniture, would retain a bit of a traditional look (style points for a donor gun with the fleur de lis receiver engravings

[jeepnik]

Been using a 20 ga. Franchi 48 for decades. Pure JMB recoil operation, think Auto 5. Only a 4 round mag tube, but "IF" I need more than that, it's time for air or artillery support. Honestly, 5 rounds of #4 buck should handle any indoor problem that could arise.

[firefuzz]

I have never owned a semiauto shotgun, but after seeing some of my more petite and/or female family members struggle with a pump shotgun, wondered what semiautos might fill that role.

I have an 8-shot Mossberg pump I like, so something in the 8-shot realm would be nice.

Thought about a Saiga, but the local funshops seem not to get them in lately.

Is the struggling due to fear of the recoil, slide length or lack of familiarity with the gun? (Not throwing rocks, asking questions.)

Lack of familiarity can be cured with a box of dummy rounds and several afternoon, backyard handling sessions.

As far as recoil, a shorter (fitted) stock may help and I'm one of the rare duck LEO shotgun instructors that has no problem with recommending a properly fitted 20ga for smaller, or recoil sensitive shooters. I've seen some pretty big male LEO's leave a shotgun in the rack when they should have grabbed it simply because they dread the recoil. My wife, mother, and daughter (one semi-auto, two pumps) all have fitted 20ga's for home defense and I'd dread facing any of them so armed.

If it's the slide length both Remington and Mossberg, and other's I'm sure, make shorter stocked youth models in both 12ga and 20ga. I'm a big believer that most shotgun stocks are too long for MOST shooters (I'm 5"11" and 250 plus and my go-to shotgun(s) all have shortened stocks.) and especially for HD guns need to be shortened, actually quite a bit.

If you really want a semi it's hard to beat the tested and true Remington 1100 in either 12ga or 20ga with a 20", non-rifled, slug barrel. I've never owned a Saiga but I what I've read they have to be really tuned up, even fitted to the mags, to be reliable. I'd still like to try one. The Benelli's always come highly recommended, but will set you back considerably more than the 1100.

IMHO, no matter what you decide.....semi or pump, 12ga or 20ga, get a youth model, or shorter, stock on the gun.

Rob

[AJMD429]

Agree on the short stock. I do think the biggest issue is working the pump, which does seem like it could be rectified by a few range sessions. Women's arms are certainly less strong, especially if they are petite.

[Tycer]

Agree on the short stock. I do think the biggest issue is working the pump, which does seem like it could be rectified by a few range sessions. Women's arms are certainly less strong, especially if they are petite.

Try loading and working the pump one handed laying down.

[MrMurphy]

I generally don't recommend pumps for women (or shotguns) unless they're "gun people". Someone like my significant other, 8 years Army and ex LE, is a bit different than others. But even she isn't a huge shotgun person. However hand her an AR with which she is intimately familiar and you're in trouble.


A 9mm carbine, like a CX4 Storm is easier to hit with than a pistol and not much bigger. Same idea as a submachine gun just without the group therapy setting. I'm not a huge fan of them, but they DO have a role.

A 5.56mm carbine will also work well. Neither of these are for house clearing in this case, they are "bunker down in the bedroom" guns. "I" don't go house-clearing alone, and I am trained and experienced in doing so....often (twice this week so far..). You can't cover all the angles. I can get an AR or shotgun into some very tight spots, but always with a partner unless absolutely necessary.

A low recoil AR with good softpoint/JHP ammo gives you 30 chances in a hurry at a solid hit. Not saying a shotgun is a bad choice, but choose the weapon based on the shooter. If you go with the AR, a red dot (Aimpoint) turned on and left on full time, with a white light and TRAINING is the key. The Aimpoint will run for a couple years between battery changes.

Some of the gas shotguns (1100s) can malfunction if you don't shoulder and brace them correctly.

Of all the semiautos out there for reliability, I'd say the Benellis, the Remington VersaMax (which is a Remington Benelli, to the point where it exchanges parts) and the Beretta 1301s. All have excellent reputations for reliability under pressure. Again TRAINING IS THE KEY.

Don't discount the 20 gauge in a pump, it will certainly get the job done.

[JB]

I think any quality auto would do the job. I'd avoid the Chinese, Russian, and other cheapos. I'm partial to the Remington 1100 and 11-87's. They've proven they'll hold up on the trap and skeet ranges with extended shooting. But any Beretta, Benelli, etc would do as well.

[66GTO]

Berreta CX4 Storm, .45ACP. Sub-sonic, won't blow out you ear drums like .223 indoors with no hearing protection. More compact than any shotgun with a butt stock. Minimal recoil, 8 round magazine.

http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/c ... ur-castle/

[Paladin]

As stated most of the semi autos will do. The 1100 Rem has about the softest recoil but requires a bit more preventive maintenance to run all the time. I have a couple of "combat" 12 gauges that I use at work. Both work very well with the Siaga being my favorite.
I agree that a good 20 GA is plenty of weapon for home defense and have a couple of 870s and a Mossberg set up just for that for my wife and I.

[retmech]

I have always thought an auto shotgun was a way better choice than a pump if you're going to use one for HD. Unless you are a regular pump gun shooter or practice often you won't pump it or short shuck it. I see it all the time when people who are not regular shooters try sporting clays or skeet with pumps. Even after being told remember to pump they forget just under the pressure of doubles thrown in skeet or sporting. Can you imagine them remembering under the pressure and adrenaline dump of home invasion! I would make sure whatever auto they chose it was very reliable with the HD ammo.

[AJMD429]

Berreta CX4 Storm, .45ACP. Sub-sonic, won't blow out you ear drums like .223 indoors with no hearing protection. More compact than any shotgun with a butt stock. Minimal recoil, 8 round magazine.

http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/c ... ur-castle/

Yeah - I also thought about a Marlin 'Camp Carbine' in 45 ACP as a recommendation, but I couldn't tell them where to get one affordably (and I darn tootin' ain't sellin' MINE ). I would like to do more with mine, but I'm addicted to double-stack magazines (my 45 pistol is a Para Ordnance with magazines of either 14, 15, or 20 rounds), and the Marlin only uses single stacks. If I were a good 'gunsmith' I'd figure out an adapter...

[AJMD429]

I have always thought an auto shotgun was a way better choice than a pump if you're going to use one for HD. Unless you are a regular pump gun shooter or practice often you won't pump it or short shuck it. I see it all the time when people who are not regular shooters try sporting clays or skeet with pumps. Even after being told remember to pump they forget just under the pressure of doubles thrown in skeet or sporting. Can you imagine them remembering under the pressure and adrenaline dump of home invasion! I would make sure whatever auto they chose it was very reliable with the HD ammo.

This I can see, even with myself (not that I'm a 'combat shotgun shooter', but I've hunted with a pump shotgun, and sure shot lots of recreational rounds out of one, but somehow the action is NOT [to me] anywhere near as 'intuitive' as a levergun, or even a bolt-action).

[Lastmohecken]

I keep a Remington 1100 with a rifle sight barrel and a trap stock which has a higher comb, and really works great for the rifle sight barrel, because my face is resting on the comb when I see the sights, instead of hanging out in the air above the comb.

But, my favorite home defense shotgun is a Browning A5, but then I shoot A5's a lot. I trust their reliability, and I like the magazine cutoff because I can keep it loaded with 4 rounds and the mag cut off. If anyone unfamiliar with the gun picks it up, it won't load one in the barrel, but for me it's no hindrance at all, because I know about the cut off which makes it a lot safer to have standing in a corner. I have owned several pumps, and frankly I don't like them much, plus the reliability of a pump is overrated. I have seen far more malfunctions with pumps on the range then any other shotgun type.

[7.62 Precision]

The best one is not a shotgun, but an AR in 5.56.

But even with training a pump shotgun can be a struggle for a smaller person with shorter arms. A shooter stock can help, but even so, I have seen small women and children that had no problem with recoil learning the mechanics of running the action, or anything else, who still had a hard time with a pump due to shorter arms.

As far as the best semi-auto, I will leave that the those with more experience than I have. A lot of arguments against a semi-auto and for a pump do not really apply in a self-defense shotgun, where you can choose a shotgun/load combination that works and stick with it.

[wilko]

66GTO got the idea.... firing a firearm indoors will make your ears bleed... his advice is sound

[firefuzz]

The best one is not a shotgun, but an AR in 5.56.

But even with training a pump shotgun can be a struggle for a smaller person with shorter arms. A shooter stock can help, but even so, I have seen small women and children that had no problem with recoil learning the mechanics of running the action, or anything else, who still had a hard time with a pump due to shorter arms.

I've always leaned towards a shotgun for HD use, but I grew up with one and have trained with one all my life. But...there's a lot of merit to this, especially if you factor in the low cost of decent quality AR's and accessories, at least a decent dedicated weapons light, right now. I'd lean toward the AR in .223/5.56 over a 9mm carbine for a couple of reasons, they hit harder number 1 and a 9mm penetrates walls better, not a good thing for an HD weapon, than a .223 for number 2.

A M4 type carbine removes both the stock length and recoil issues and to be perfectly honest, an AR is easier to train an un-educated person with than pretty much any shotgun. A 50 round training session with even light loads in a soft kicking 20ga is not near as comfortable for a petite shooter as the same round count with an AR and comfort builds confidence which brings calm, which is an all important factor with any type of HD firearm. An AR's controls are user friendly, even with folks with small hands. Another safety factor, especially in a home with children, that is seldom mentioned is that you can combat load an AR from a completely empty gun to loaded and locked with 30rds on board in less than a second. That's not doable with a shotgun.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but I think a lot of time we dwell too much on the gun(s) we pick for HD and not enough time on the necessity of proper training and the maintenance of those skills necessary to protect ourselves and our loved ones, and particularly in them being able to protect themselves when we're not there. Handing someone a gun and letting them shoot a box of shells thru it one time just doesn't cut it in reality. For several years my family has at least two (I plan for 4, expect 3 and settle for 2 usually) family range days a year where we shoot at man-shaped targets out to 25yds with everything...pistols, revolvers, shotguns and rifles. Over the years I've secured one of each of these four guns for every adult member of my family, fitted the gun to them (my son-in-law is 6"7" and my Mom's 5'5" so that's important here), and instructed them in their use. All of them are comfortable and competent with their guns and I'm comfortable with them at my back with them. That says a lot and is important, at least to me.

BTW, all the rifles I've built/bought for my family are AR15 types except for one......my Mom doesn't care for them at all, but she can sure make my Dad's old .30 M1 carbine sing a pretty song.

Just a little more mud in the water.

Rob

[MrMurphy]

An M1 carbine loaded with a 110 grain JSP was (before the M4 carbine) an excellent urban warfare weapon, popular with a lot of cops and similar from WW2 onward. Short, handy and low recoiling, it's still highly popular in the Phillipines apparently even with the introduction of the AR 40 years ago.

A .357 levergun isn't too bad either, but it does demand practice, like everything else.

[Old Ironsights]

Unka Biden suggests a good old Double.

ANd seeing how fast some CAS guys can reload... it's not a bad idea.

[handirifle]

My daughter stands about 5'3", weighs about 105 soaking wet, and had me set up her (yes hers) Mossberg 20ga pump with a pistol grip instead of a buttstock. Her first shot tore it right out of her hands. Slightly weak hands.

That said, I would NOT want to be up against her with a 45 ACP Glock in her hands. She can handle that like a pro, and she HAS had pro training with it.

My point, is why not a handgun for home defense?

[Treetop]

My LGS owner, who obviously has his choice of firearms, keeps a Ruger 10-22 loaded with a BX-25 magazine beside his bed. The more I think of that idea, the more merit it has.

Those who would recommend an AR for use in the home have probably not fired one in a home before without hearing protection. It will most likely immediately and permanently damage your hearing. That's what led my LGS owner to the 10-22. Up to 25 rounds of .22 long rifle in a light weight, rapid firing carbine may not be ideal, but I wouldn't want to be the BG breaking in to his home.

Our two oldest grandsons (13 and 16) are almost Jerry Miculek fast at 10 yards, with their 10-22s, keeping almost all rounds on an 8" gong.

[6pt-sika]

We have a very nice Benelli M2 Tactical 12 gauge in the shop for a couple add ons . Anyway this thing is 20" or less barrel with a mag tube to the end of the barrel .

I've been fingering it for the last couple days . If I were in the market for a defense shotgun this is a way I would head , I however like the thing more for use as a buckshot deer gun

We also have a LNIB Remington VersaMax in full Zombie camo that's on consignment and is pretty much the same thing in a Remington package for about 2/3rds the price .

Now with all that being said I also like very very much the older Belgium made Browning A-5 12 gauge Magnums with the slug barrels .

[6pt-sika]

An M1 carbine loaded with a 110 grain JSP was (before the M4 carbine) an excellent urban warfare weapon, popular with a lot of cops and similar from WW2 onward. Short, handy and low recoiling, it's still highly popular in the Phillipines apparently even with the introduction of the AR 40 years ago.

Funny you should mention the lowly M1 Carbine !

I happen to have two of them bought by my father and grandfather from the NRA in 1962 for $12.50 each and the one my grandfather left me happens to be sitting in the gun cabinet in my bedroom locked and loaded

Incidently that Carbine was my grandfathers #1 favourite Turkey gun with 110 FMJ's .

[AJMD429]

Those who would recommend an AR for use in the home have probably not fired one in a home before without hearing protection. It will most likely immediately and permanently damage your hearing. That's what led my LGS owner to the 10-22. Up to 25 rounds of .22 long rifle in a light weight, rapid firing carbine may not be ideal, but I wouldn't want to be the BG breaking in to his home.

BINGO...!

That's why I won't use a 357 Mag, 30 Carbine, 223, or other super-sonic firearm. I prefer subsonic, and preferably therefore a BIG subsonic (or at least 'slow') projectile (such as a shotgun, 45 ACP, 45 Colt out of a rifle, 38 Special, or similar).

Granted, if a bad-guy appeared in my house all of a sudden, started to point his gun at me, and all I had was my 338 Lapua, both of us would be permanently deaf, however at least I would be around to lament the loss. However, given the choice of what firearm I could use in that circumstance, I would much prefer something unlikely to permanently render me deaf.

I know some of you guys hunt without hearing protection (I use amplifying muffs, so I actually hear better with them on, and avoiding the damage, hear better when I'm at the symphony as well ). However, having shot loud firearms outside in a field, outside in a clearing in a wooded area, under a rangehouse roof, and in a house (shooting out an opened window), I can testify that shooting a 22 LR handgun out a cracked window was actually more painful to the ears than shooting a 6mm Remington afield. I can't imagine shooting a 223 rifle or 357 Mag handgun inside...

I used to own a pair of Striker shotguns, and although they didn't cycle fast (they are basically a slow-to-rotate double-action 12-shot 'revolver' in 12-gauge), they have essentially zero recoil due to weight and straight stocks, are intimidating enough you may not need to actually shoot them, and were quite reliable regardless of ammo....


....alas, they were classified as 'destructive devices' so came under NFA 'stamp' rules, at which point I papered them through a class-III dealer, and sold them (used the money to buy a couple different NFA items that proved far more useful on a regular basis - a couple suppressors ).

[MrMurphy]

Having burned up a 30 round magazine in about 3 seconds inside a concrete hangar as well as a 175 round continous burst of 7.62 inside a bunker...I assure you some of us have.

Under stress unlike hunting auditory exclusion kicks in and you don't hear much. Damage occurs but not as much as you think. Shooting any gun indoors will cause hearing loss.

.22s are not optimal for defense. Rim fires do not ignite reliably enough. If it's all you got.... Fine. But I wouldn't pick it deliberately. I keep electronic muffs with the rifle. If there's no time....pistol. If I have a few seconds...rifle and ears.

[magyars4]

I and my wife both have 1100's, mine is 12 ga and hers is 20.

[7.62 Precision]

Having burned up a 30 round magazine in about 3 seconds inside a concrete hangar as well as a 175 round continous burst of 7.62 inside a bunker...I assure you some of us have.

While I admit that an AR pistol with a 7.5" barrel is like having a flash bang go off in front of your face (and a 7.62x54r with an 8" barrel will make your nose bleed), if you have a reasonable-lenght AR carbine, with a reasonable muzzle device, like an A2, or something like a linear comp or none at all, you should not have too much hearing loss with only a few rounds fired.

I would not worry too much about loss of hearing, when I am worrying about preventing loss of life. I would worry about choosing the most effective tool and everything else is secondary.

On the other hand, I would not be using any of the crazy loud aftermarket brakes that everyone loves. There is no reason to purposely damage your hearing.

Of course, I use hearing protection when practicing and when hunting.

[firefuzz]

Having burned up a 30 round magazine in about 3 seconds inside a concrete hangar as well as a 175 round continous burst of 7.62 inside a bunker...I assure you some of us have.

While I admit that an AR pistol with a 7.5" barrel is like having a flash bang go off in front of your face (and a 7.62x54r with an 8" barrel will make your nose bleed), if you have a reasonable-lenght AR carbine, with a reasonable muzzle device, like an A2, or something like a linear comp or none at all, you should not have too much hearing loss with only a few rounds fired.

I would not worry too much about loss of hearing, when I am worrying about preventing loss of life. I would worry about choosing the most effective tool and everything else is secondary.

On the other hand, I would not be using any of the crazy loud aftermarket brakes that everyone loves. There is no reason to purposely damage your hearing.

Of course, I use hearing protection when practicing and when hunting.

This.

As long as we're all still breathing at the end we can sweat the small stuff later.

Rob

[walks with gun]

I'm a big fan of the M1 carbines with Winchester soft points, easy recoil and fun to shoot. I recently got to play with a Chiappa M9 carbine there 9mm version, I'd stay clear of them, after 40 plus rounds the bolt face came apart like shrapnel, no one was hurt, but the gun got sent back and after two months it's on it's way back. we'll see if there's a explanation in the box but they didn't say what happened. Anyway besides the M1's the 10/22's give shooters a lot of confidence with good ammo I think they might be a ok choice. As far as shotguns go I'd say a Rem 1100 youth in 20 gauge just easier to handle.