Shooting with 2 Hands in the Old West

[JimT]

Writing of cowboys in the 1880-1890 period --

“…For distance shooting, and when accuracy was most wanted, the revolver was usually held with both hands, straight in front of the shooter’s body….â€

[Nath]

Thats something you never see in the films and I allways wondered.
In fact going by the films it makes you wonder sometimes why the gun makers wasted so much time and money fitting sights
Nath.

[meanc]

That's the way I heard it, too.

I've practiced one-handed enough to be combat and hunting accurate to about 25yds with both semi's and SA's.

But, when it's counted (in my hunting situations), I've always shot two-handed. Would probably be the same in a self defense scenario as well.

[Charles]

I can't remember who said it, maybe Jeff Cooper years, ago, but "The only time you should shoot a handgun with one hand, is when the other is broken", always made good sense to me.

[JohnnyReb]

Only shoot with two hands when I want to actually hit something...

[Bronco]

That's the way I did it back in the day by crackie!
John

Oh, maybe it's just that I feel that old sometimes

[Griff]

Thanks for the cite Jim, that subject comes up all the time at our SASS matches. Now I have ammunition; I've always stayed out of the argument as I couldn't remember where I'd read that.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

If it was supposed to be shot with one hand they would have called it a handSgun.

I don't have the source but I remember reading about how the one handed shooting style came about. It was a carry over from the dueling pistol days. The standard dueling pistol was a smooth bore and not very accurate so you best bet for survival was to stand sideways to present as small a target as possible and this sideways stance didn't allow for a two handed hold.
It is my understanding that this practice carried over clean up to at least WWII as the proper way to shoot a handgun.

[Ben_Rumson]

Thanks Jim.. Nice to know.. Now fellas..in movies ..I think it was in "Magnificent Seven" one of the charaters used a two handed grip to drop a BG & the kid that saw the shot said it was the best shot he'd ever seen..But the guy said he meant to wing the baddy & not kill him..or something like that...Heh heh..That's about the only western I remember that some one used the two handed grip..
I read somwhere that Col. Cooper said something like "The only reason not to use two hands is if you've got three!"

[Timothy]

I remember reading about a faro dealer who shot a drunken town constable using two hands on the gun somewhere. I also remember reading that it was socially accepted for women to use two hands but not men.

[Comal Forge]

I have a an old reference somewhere around my library, which unfortunately I cannot locate at this moment, that describes military instructions for using a revolver in the Civil War. IIRC, it directed the shooter to 'use a single-handed grip on the weapon only when mounted and when the opponent is at close range' and to 'always aim at the belt buckle of the adversary, especially when using both hands to support the weapon for longer range shooting'. I may not have the exact quote but words to that effect came from a shooting primer from that period.

This is likely why most C&B pistols shoot high at 25 yds. They were intended to hit somewhere on a standing man from point blank to 100 yds or thereabouts with a center hold. Would not surprise me if Hickok used two hands when he shot Dave Tutt at what was reported to be an extended distance.

[rangerider7]

If your life depended on it and you had to hit the target which would you use? If it was for a close snap shot it would be one handed. If time was not the concern then it would be two handed. It is just common sense.

[sabashimon]

That's the way I heard it, too.

I've practiced one-handed enough to be combat and hunting accurate to about 25yds with both semi's and SA's.

But, when it's counted (in my hunting situations), I've always shot two-handed. Would probably be the same in a self defense scenario as well.

I train two handed for accuracy work, but I know that more likely as not, a self defense scenario will manifest itself from less than 10 feet, and very quickly.
Because of that I also train one handed, either with explosive moves off the "x", or from the hip as I draw and clear the safety, with follow-up shots climbing the ladder to the head.
Obviously when circumstances permit, two hands are the way to go, but
the statiistics tell me I better have an alternative ready at my disposal.
Just my two Shekels

[Leverluver]

Thanks Jim.. Nice to know.. Now fellas..in movies ..I think it was in "Magnificent Seven" one of the charaters used a two handed grip to drop a BG & the kid that saw the shot said it was the best shot he'd ever seen..But the guy said he meant to wing the baddy & not kill him..or something like that...Heh heh..That's about the only western I remember that some one used the two handed grip..
I read somwhere that Col. Cooper said something like "The only reason not to use two hands is if you've got three!"

Only one I recall also Ben but I think the GG's comment was that he was shooting for the horse (didn't want the horse to get away and run back to BG's camp)

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Wild Bill shot Dave Tutt through the heart at 75 yards. That has been well documented. I have read many different accounts of the shooting. None of them claim Wild Bill held his pistol with two hands, although some accounts say he rested his pistol on his left arm to steady it for the shot.

Now for something completely different, I recently read someplace an account of why movie cowboys used to 'throw' their bullets when gunfights were filmed. According to this account, in the really early days of movies a lot of the cowboy extras were real cowboys. Some of them had developed the technique of shooting exactly the way you see it done in the movies, with the pistol snapped forward in the hand for every shot. According to this account, it really was not too difficult to perfect this technique and achieve reasonable short range accuracy with it. so when gunfights were filmed, they just shot the blanks the same way they were used to shooting. It's an interesting theory anyway. I must go to the really high berm at my club and try it.

[Rexster]

Amen, JimT. It is a very human thing to use an available hand to steady something, so to say nobody before 1900 or 1946 thought to use the free hand to steady a shaky gun hand simply makes no sense. Even if it is not manly; if I win the gunfight, the other guy will not be around to say I am girly.

[JimT]

Now for something completely different, I recently read someplace an account of why movie cowboys used to 'throw' their bullets when gunfights were filmed. According to this account, in the really early days of movies a lot of the cowboy extras were real cowboys. Some of them had developed the technique of shooting exactly the way you see it done in the movies, with the pistol snapped forward in the hand for every shot. According to this account, it really was not too difficult to perfect this technique and achieve reasonable short range accuracy with it. so when gunfights were filmed, they just shot the blanks the same way they were used to shooting. It's an interesting theory anyway. I must go to the really high berm at my club and try it.

Thanks Driftwood. My take is a bit different. If you have ever shot cap n ball revolvers very much, you will have experienced a fired cap falling down into the action when you cock the hammer.

In certain models it's a job to get them out. Sometimes the gun is tied up completely and out of service until you stop, pull the cylinder and work on it.

Some old-timers told me that they "threw" the gun up and slightly back when cocking the hammer for the next shot so that the fired cap from the previous shot would come out of the gun ... and not drop down into the action.

Those who shot the old cap n balls when I was a kid (in the 1950's) can tell you that the caps did not stick on the nipples in one peice like they do now.

My personal belief - and I have no data to back it up - is that the older caps were "hotter" than what we have now. My dad always maintained that the powder was better in those days also. I do not know personally if that is true or not.

[Hobie]

Howdy

Wild Bill shot Dave Tutt through the heart at 75 yards. That has been well documented. I have read many different accounts of the shooting. None of them claim Wild Bill held his pistol with two hands, although some accounts say he rested his pistol on his left arm to steady it for the shot.

Now for something completely different, I recently read someplace an account of why movie cowboys used to 'throw' their bullets when gunfights were filmed. According to this account, in the really early days of movies a lot of the cowboy extras were real cowboys. Some of them had developed the technique of shooting exactly the way you see it done in the movies, with the pistol snapped forward in the hand for every shot. According to this account, it really was not too difficult to perfect this technique and achieve reasonable short range accuracy with it. so when gunfights were filmed, they just shot the blanks the same way they were used to shooting. It's an interesting theory anyway. I must go to the really high berm at my club and try it.

IIRC, Elmer Keith mentioned the technique as being used when shooting from a moving horse.

[AmBraCol]

Now for something completely different, I recently read someplace an account of why movie cowboys used to 'throw' their bullets when gunfights were filmed. According to this account, in the really early days of movies a lot of the cowboy extras were real cowboys. Some of them had developed the technique of shooting exactly the way you see it done in the movies, with the pistol snapped forward in the hand for every shot.

IIRC, Elmer Keith mentioned the technique as being used when shooting from a moving horse.

Yes, Elmer Keith wrote about it, in "Sixguns" I believe. Either that or "Hell, I Was There!" - the only two of his books I have. He mentioned that it was about the only way to shoot from a moving horse with any accuracy.

[Ben_Rumson]

What Jim said I go along with too..The first time I fired a C&B revolver & had a cap fall back in the works..I immediately knew why shooters raised up their guns and cocked them..The whole thing instantly made sense..Ya do it to keep from jamming up the works! & I could see that the habit could be easily carried over into shooting of cartridge guns and then learned as the next generation came along... Recently I cracked up at the range watching a new unschooled shooter shooting a 22 revolver, he was actually simulating recoil... as I'm sure he'd seen in the movies and thought that was what he was supposed to be doing...Course I didn't laugh out loud..

[JerryB]

Jim, good post when I first read it I thought of my dad. He cowboyed all over the country when he was young and I heard the old saying many times about a "10 dollar horse and a 40 dollar saddle".

[jd45]

Ben...you're right about Brit, (James Coburn) using a two-hand hold to shoot, only he was trying to get a prisoner by shooting the horse, which he missed, killing the bandido by mistake, telling Chico, (Horst Buckholtz), it was the worst shot he ever made. Steve McQueen also used a two-hand hold in the movie, to kill his man, if I'm not mistaken. BTW, this is a GREAT MOVIE!!!!!! jd45

[Ben_Rumson]

Thanks jd45..Been a while since I saw the film..