OT - bashing cops, etc

[Dirty Dan]

Well, after reading all 5 pages of the thread I can see both sides of this.

Plus, I was raised in an old time, rural, deputy sheriff's home. No uniform, just the badge. Dad carried a SAA Colt in .45 Colt. His patrol car was the family sedan. We respected the law. I did a stint as an M.P. It's a dangerous, thankless job. I didn't expect any, the job was enough.

I think some of you LEO boys are a might touchy. The thing you have to remember is that anyone, be they crooked judge, DA with an agenda, or underpaid, corrupt cop, that has the power to destroy a life...or end it; most certainly must be held to a higher standard than any other folks. It is precisely the fact that people are human and subject to illegal, immoral, corrupt temptations, yet retain the power to destroy; that is the concern of folks like sore shoulder and myself.

Any rational person knows that not all persons in any category are one way or another. No need to make that argument. Sometimes we speak in generalities without actually meaning to. Having said that- I think we all can agree that there is a bunch wrong in the way laws are administered on the street and from the bench. Anybody that disagrees is not up on current events. IMO no knock entries are akin to illegal quartering of troops during the Revolution. Hope it never happens to me, 'cause if anybody rouses me from a sound sleep by kicking in the door, yelling at the top of their voice, there's gonna be a lot of gunfire and more than one funeral. No doubt mine would be one, so don't give me any stuff about being unrealistic.

Legislators have strayed way too far from the Constitution and personal responsibility has been supplanted by the nanny state, so they that give the most goodies away keep getting re-elected. I have often dreamed of running for Congress on a pledge of no new laws- in fact, I would pledge to try to remove bad laws that are on the books. Too bad one has to be rich to run these days. See the last quote in the tag line.

[AJMD429]

I could tell you what I would do and that ain't it. Officer discretion is one of the best tools that an officer can have. When applied correctly, it will prevent officers from getting hurt and it will keep people that truly did not know of the exact wording of the laws out of jail. I have not arrested people that were on the gray area of the law because I thought it was the morally correct thing to do.

If you think about it, THAT is the essence of so many issues in society; cops with reasonable judgement at least help mitigate bad law - cops with no discretion can cause harm with bad law. Same in our schools with the teachers, same with doctors and the 'protocols' we're supposed to mindlessly follow vs. use judgement. Same with juries, etc.

Why does mankind insist on coming up then with so many endless rules, policies, protocols, and so on...!

[Kismet]

The fact that anyone can buy the gear is a problem. IMO Uniforms should NOT be available OTC or on the internet. They should be procured solely and directly through the Department and surrenderable upon discharge. I understand the "comfort" & operational "reasons" for such gear, but for the sake of Oficer Safety, Public Safety and PR, somthing needs to be changed.

Wow OI, that sounds remarkably similar to some other things I have heard - just replace the word "uniforms" with "guns." Are you really suggesting that a major part of crime (or any part) would be reduced if certain uniforms were not available? That sounds to me a lot like one of those wildly unnecessary laws if we were all responsible for our own behavior.

Michael in NH

Note that I did not say anything about "laws" - just "procurement".

Nobody is going to make knock-off cop gear to match a single department simply because it wouldn't be profitable.

I don't care WHAT the 'bangers can buy. I just don't want Police Procurement to buy the same stuff. That has nothing to do with laws, just good internal policy. If "my department" signs a contract ith a uniform maker to provide me with a unique uniform - that is not available, by copyright or whatever, to any other person, then no laws are required to keep the goblins from posing as cops.

But thank you for completely misrepresenting what I had to say.

I'm not sure how I misrepresented your statement - at least I wasn't trying to. But, perhaps I just don't understand what you were trying to say!

First, do officers just buy their uniforms off the net? Second, how will having them procured by and returnable to the department change anything? Are there bad cops keeping their uniforms and committing crimes? Finally, how is this process of getting unique uniforms going to happen without a law because if criminals want them then I don't think a little copyright law is going to stop anyone.

Maybe I am just in the dark on this one, but I personally haven't heard of a single incident where someone said that baddie was dressed as a cop (outside of the movies, of course)! I'm sure it has happened, but I would think it would be pretty low on the priority list of problems.

Michael in NH

[AmBraCol]

Maybe I am just in the dark on this one, but I personally haven't heard of a single incident where someone said that baddie was dressed as a cop (outside of the movies, of course)! I'm sure it has happened, but I would think it would be pretty low on the priority list of problems.

Just for the sake of argument, it happens here all the time. Not hard when most of the police uniform is US Gov't surplus...

[sore shoulder]

In todays news.



http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2008/04 ... news10.txt



Court: Arrest For ID Refusal Unwarranted

By Rob Moritz

Arkansas News Bureau • rmoritz@arkansasnews.com

LITTLE ROCK — A police officer does not have the authority to arrest someone for refusing to identify himself when he is not suspected of committing a crime, a federal appeals panel ruled Friday.

The decision by a three-judge panel of the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis reversed an Arkansas federal judge’s ruling and ordered a new hearing in a Benton County man’s lawsuit challenging his arrest for refusing to show his identification during a traffic stop.

“It is amazing how many times I have had people convicted for doing the same thing,â€

[Iron_Marshal]

Sore Shoulder has become a Sore Loser.

What he has just done is called a bait and switch.

He had us all focused on his initial complaints. When we addressed those and he did not have a sufficient comeback, he switched tactics and pulled up a fresh case to debate. How about answering the fact that you called an officer WORSE than a CHILD MOLESTER? Is there an apology coming? Do you stand by your words? I'd like to know.

An officer makes a mistake and gets heated when there was exchange between him and another person. He may have been wrong, I was not there and I will not Monday morning quarterback him, but, nonetheless, I'll take you at face value and for the sake of argument, say you are 100% correct on the matter. So...CHILD MOLESTER vs. COP who threatened to find a reason to arrest a man. Hmmm...No brainer if you ask me. Which, if you persist in calling the cop WORSE THAN A CHILD MOLESTER....ithen you become...a NO BRAINER. I am not accusing you of having no brain...just challenging you to reverse your ridiculous stance on the matter. C'mon... I could get online and post liberal media stories about soldiers and proclaim them to be the most foul and evil denizens from hell, but that doesn't make it so. You really need to reevaluate your stance. You are going out of your way to locate, and then copy for our amusement, stories about police misconduct. Give it a rest.

I concede that police make mistakes, but what kind of sick and twisted crusade are you on by maligning the character of a police officer and call him worse than a child molester? Call him incompetent. Call him a disgrace to the uniform. I may still disagree with you but at least you will have conducted yourself with some modicum of decorum by stating your argument without having resorted to such disgusting accusations. It sounds petty, but SHAME ON YOU!

I worked as a detective for five years and left the division when I was promoted to sergeant. I worked many child molestation cases and there is nothing more contemptible than a child molester is. Even a murderer is held in more esteem, at least to me, than a child molester. Even the basest criminals in the penitentiaries agree with me and child molesters live a very hard time in prison. Many child victims NEVER fully recover from the assaults committed upon them.

Do the RIGHT thing and apologize for what you said...at least as far as the vicious name-calling. By all means, continue to explore the internet for stories about law enforcement. As long as the liberal media is around, I am sure you will find plenty of material. However, you claim to distrust the liberal, Marxist, Cool-Aid drinkers so why not align yourself with men and women that, for the most part, in my experience, share your feelings. Law enforcement officers are not your enemies. But if you continue to throw gas on the fire don’t be surprised when you get burned.

[sore shoulder]

Irish Cop, no apology is forthcoming. I stand by what I said, Anyone with a badge and gun who threatens a law abiding citizen with false arrest is indeed scum and lower than a child molester. and anyone who does not think this represented the cops overall attitude is naive or willingly blind. His attitude in the interviews shows it, and he was not contrite or apologetic, in fact, he intimated he would do it again.

It is laughable to me that you want me to give this cop some slack, something he demonstrated he would not do himself. It is laughable, no, pathetic and worriesome that you consider his actions an accident and nothing to worry about.

To you there is nothing more contemptible than a child molester. To me there is nothing more contemptible than the person charged with protecting those children using his authority to violate the rights of a law abiding citizen. I really dont care if you dont like it. I'm fascinated that you are more upset about my words than you are his actions. Your anger is misplaced, but I submit that is a product of having been a member of his priveledged class with be ablility to harrass citizens at will.

I did not bait and swtich, and that news article was not something I had to look for, it was actually the first thing I came across yesterday when I got home from school. I could flood this forum with examples of tyrannical cops if I were do as you suggest I am doing, they are not hard to find because they are so very prevelant, not isolated or just a couple "bad apples". Conversely, it is more and more becoming the norm, and it is being fostered by folks such as yourself who would attack the messenger. The story I posted was relevant to the thread. Did you read it? Do you care? Or are you more worried about an honest citizens comments than you are about tyrannical cops actions? It would seem you are.

Now, you refered to some people here being "Posers" as you say. Here's my creds. I'm a former general contracter. I built small cabins and houses in an off the grid area high in the CO mountains, the last 3 I built by myself and designed and installed the alternative energy systems they use for power. Before that I was a framing contractor in the ski resort areas. I've done a lot of work from horseback. I was raised in OR on farms and ranches. I help out a local ranching friend of mine come branding time. I was a volunteer firefighter locally. I am an avid hunter and reloader. I am currently an engineering student and a member of the CO National Gaurd. I have a daughter in college and a son in the Navy. I am no Poser sir, and have done many, many more things than I've listed here.

Interestingly, one of my best friends is the local Undersherriff. He is one of the fairest and most honest people I know, even though we do disagree sometimes. He has many times asked me to come work for him. I told him I would never write a speeding ticket or a ticket for any victimless crime, and I would actively discourage others from doing so, and I would not arrest drug users or enforce any law concerning a gun that was not used in crime. No victim. no crime. That was the last time he asked me. I also told him I really had a lot of disdain for several members of his dept. Heres the kicker, 2 of those officers were fired, and are now under investigation for some very serious criminal activity. This is in a very rural county, and if I had not brought it to my friends attention, it would still be an issue, but he valued my words and my character enough to investigate. How many times does that happen?

[Hobie]

We're going to let this one die. No name calling here.

If I see another such post on this subject over the next week I'll simply delete it.