Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9047
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
I was just rereading an article by the late Francis Sell on the handiness of a curved buttplate for snapshooting deer in the Oregon coast woods. This is in the 1984 Gun Digest. Sell demonstrates the use of this buttplate on a custom Marlin 336 he had barreled to a .257 wildcat -- but gives no other information about it. Anyone know what old Francis might have been using? He does mention snapshooting a couple of ravens with the 117-grain soft point, so maybe it was a .25-35 improved??
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4145
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:34 am
- Location: north of Palacios about 1400 miles
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Think he called it a .25Tomcat. I had the article in a American Rifleman but lost it back in the 90's. Think it was a slightly improved 25/35 with athe neck just a touch shorter than the stock 25/35. It moved the 117gr RN at 24-2500fps out of his 24" barrel If anyone could post that article, if copyrights have expired I'd appreciate it too. 3leg/Todd
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9047
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Todd, thanks. I have been doing some searching and found some information on the .25-35 Tomcat. Supposedly, P.O. Ackley helped Sell with this wildcat, which features a 35-degree shoulder and what seems to be the original case neck, vs. the 40-degree shoulder and shortened neck of the Ackley Improved.
Man, I would love to find a copy of that American Rifleman article "A Custom Deer Rifle."
Sell lived in the Coast Range of Oregon, where snap shots at blacktails are the norm.
Man, I would love to find a copy of that American Rifleman article "A Custom Deer Rifle."
Sell lived in the Coast Range of Oregon, where snap shots at blacktails are the norm.
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32212
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Reminds me that someday I would like to rebarrel a 357 Mag levergun in 256 Win Mag...
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
- earlmck
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3446
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
- Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
That should be a natural, Doc. I once had that cartridge in a Marlin model 62, but the gun was such a tinker-toy feeling thing compared to my model 92 Winchester 25/20 I just could never warm up to it. But the cartridge has real fun potential.AJMD429 wrote:Reminds me that someday I would like to rebarrel a 357 Mag levergun in 256 Win Mag...
With all the old Marlins out there stuck in the back of closets, you'd think re-barrelling to 25/35 or a wildcat version thereof would be more common. And 219 zipper, too. I would love either (or both) of those, especially in the 24" 336A configuration...
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2268
- Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:23 pm
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
I had a .256 win mag in a ruger hawkeye. Then I had a martini action rifle chambered in it. Now I have a T/C contender barrel. I would love to have a winchester 92 built in one. I knew a guy who had a beauty. Maybe someday have a barrel put on a taurus 92? I have one in .357. A browning 92 would be nice but who wants to butcher one? I have a browning 92 in .44 mag. Wish it was in .357 or .256 win mag. I do have the dies and a couple hundred case`s and maybe a 100 factory and a bunch of reloads. I love that cartridge. Its almost no recoil, flat shooting but a ear ringer.
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
If you like Francis Sell get his books "Small game hunting " and "Advanced hunting on deer and elk trails" . Have copies and won't part with them because they are a pleasure to read. In the book Wildcat Cartridges volume two Francis writes about his 25-35 tomcat. He uses 30-30 brass to form and shoots a Marlin with a 24 inch barrel to get to 2600 FPS.
I have done some testing on an improved 25-35 . It is a 25-35 blown out to 25 Rem. I filed down the rim of a 25-35 and fire formed it in a 25 Rem model 14 . The shoulder blew out without splitting, which in a 25-35 AI it will. What this does is just give me 25-35 head stamped brass instead of 30-30. Also no custom dies needed just use 25 Rem dies. The 25 Rem isn't tapered like the 25-35 , it equal to a 30-30 necked to 25 cal.
My testing showed the 25-35 holds 36.1 grains of water, 25 Rem = 43 grains, 250 Savage = 46.5, and 25-35 AI = 46.3 . So there is an improvement in case capacity, close to the 250 Savage.
So I am waiting on a friend of mine who is has done barrel work to buy a lathe. Plus I am stuck on using a Glenfield I have or picking up a Win 94 AE.
I have done some testing on an improved 25-35 . It is a 25-35 blown out to 25 Rem. I filed down the rim of a 25-35 and fire formed it in a 25 Rem model 14 . The shoulder blew out without splitting, which in a 25-35 AI it will. What this does is just give me 25-35 head stamped brass instead of 30-30. Also no custom dies needed just use 25 Rem dies. The 25 Rem isn't tapered like the 25-35 , it equal to a 30-30 necked to 25 cal.
My testing showed the 25-35 holds 36.1 grains of water, 25 Rem = 43 grains, 250 Savage = 46.5, and 25-35 AI = 46.3 . So there is an improvement in case capacity, close to the 250 Savage.
So I am waiting on a friend of mine who is has done barrel work to buy a lathe. Plus I am stuck on using a Glenfield I have or picking up a Win 94 AE.
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32212
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
There's always the 357 B&D (44 Mag necked down to 357 Mag - close to 357 Max ballistics).Booger Bill wrote:I have a browning 92 in .44 mag. Wish it was in .357 or .256 win mag.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9047
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Ben, that's some great information.
It sure is tempting to find a donor 336 or 94 and rebarrel.
It sure is tempting to find a donor 336 or 94 and rebarrel.
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2268
- Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:23 pm
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:50 pm
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Now I’m not suggesting that you root around in another feller’s Photobucket account but…
This picture is in the album 25-35 in the sub album Francis Sell. There may be something else in there you are interested in.
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd3 ... 0ed500.jpg
This picture is in the album 25-35 in the sub album Francis Sell. There may be something else in there you are interested in.
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd3 ... 0ed500.jpg
Slim
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9047
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
William, thank you. I might just have to nose around and see if anyone makes that reamer, or call Dave Kiff.
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:50 pm
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
I have not found anyone who stocks the reamer. I now have a donor Model 94AE so I am part way there. I am thinking Manton for the reamer.
Slim
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 18724
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
There's really nothing wrong with the standard 25-35. We all know everything is shot placement.---6
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
I haven't found anyone who stocks a 25 Rem reamer either,so I would have to get one made. But I have the dies already. I am not sure what barrel length to go with , 24 " for max velocity or 20 " for handiness.william iorg wrote:I have not found anyone who stocks the reamer. I now have a donor Model 94AE so I am part way there. I am thinking Manton for the reamer.
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 18724
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Ben,BenT wrote:I haven't found anyone who stocks a 25 Rem reamer either,so I would have to get one made. But I have the dies already. I am not sure what barrel length to go with , 24 " for max velocity or 20 " for handiness.william iorg wrote:I have not found anyone who stocks the reamer. I now have a donor Model 94AE so I am part way there. I am thinking Manton for the reamer.
With the powders that are suitable for a cartridge of that size, it won't matter. Get what pleases you.----6
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:50 pm
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
When you click on the link you willsee the case drawing for the Tomcat.
Click the advance arrow and among other things you will come on a row forming steps for the .25 Remington.
I like the .25's.
Click the advance arrow and among other things you will come on a row forming steps for the .25 Remington.
I like the .25's.
Slim
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9047
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Sixgun, that is the article that got me going on this. I was looking at replacement wood at Treebone.
http://www.treebonecarving.com/marlin-l ... tocks.html
http://www.treebonecarving.com/marlin-l ... tocks.html
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:50 pm
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
I am pleased that's the article. You know there is another? From Handloader? That's where the load chart came from.
I shoot the "Modern" 25-35 - that's is in modern rifles. I load to velocities as reported in the 1920's and '30's. Now I admit they were using longer barrels than I am so my pressures are higher. On our smaller West Texas deer the 25-35 with 100-grain bullets - I feed the Speer 100-grain JHP through the tubular magazine with no trouble - the 25-35 does the job very well.
I would very much like to have a Tomcat.
I shoot the "Modern" 25-35 - that's is in modern rifles. I load to velocities as reported in the 1920's and '30's. Now I admit they were using longer barrels than I am so my pressures are higher. On our smaller West Texas deer the 25-35 with 100-grain bullets - I feed the Speer 100-grain JHP through the tubular magazine with no trouble - the 25-35 does the job very well.
I would very much like to have a Tomcat.
Slim
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9047
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
William, just grabbed my old Handloader/Rifle Master Index. Francis' article on the Tomcat was in Rifle magazine No. 83, September-October of 1982. Once again, I regret getting rid of all those back issues!
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9047
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Just sent dimensions to Dave Manson for a quote on a reamer. Will let the gang know when I hear back.
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:56 pm
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
Very interesting!! I will be following closely!
Thanks for sharing!
John
Thanks for sharing!
John
"Pistols do not win wars, but they save the lives of the men who do. The noble 1911 is a mechanical marvel, whose ruggedness, dependability & ferocious power have comforted four issues of GIs and which, unlike any other instrument you can name, is as much superior to its rivals today as it was in 1917."
-Col. Jeff Cooper, 1968
-Col. Jeff Cooper, 1968
Re: Mystery .257 levergun wildcat
P.O. Ackley said that of all his 'improved' cartridges the one that showed the greatest increase in performance was the 25/35 Improved..