Pharma Guys/AJMD

[Mescalero]

I am thinking of getting a shingles shot.
What think you?

[wecsoger]

Watching this thread...

[jazman]

Having had shingles, and having it pretty well kill my Father (in Sedona, not far from you), I cannot suggest strongly enough to get the shot. Shingles is nothing to mess around with.

[Sixgun]

Mescaline,

Go ahead and get your shingles shot, but make sure it's a Winchester 1885.

Hey, how can you expect to be a roofer, if you don't have the shingles

I just love being an AH ...it took me a lot of years to reach this point ya know.

Hey for real,buddy...at this point in our lives, who really cares? We made it this far so how much more can go wrong.-----6

[7.62 Precision]

I am thinking of getting a shingles shot.
What think you?

I'm alwaysh in favor of getting a shingle shot.

Maybe a Sharpsh, or a nishe rolling block. I wouldn't mind a Peabody . . . 1885 Wincheshter is a good choice, too.

[AJMD429]

Shingles is usually about like poison ivy - you have one part of your body that hurts like crazy for a week or two, then you're all better . . . usually. Of course usually when you run into a brick wall with your car, you aren't seriously injured, but I wouldn't recommend it - sometimes you are injured, and sometimes, shingles results in permanent firey pain of whatever part was affected - especially if the face or genital area is involved, the symptoms can be debilitating.

The shot does help reduce the likelihood you will have a recurrence of the disease (you all have probably already had it - the first go-round manifests as chicken-pox). I've seen people with it after they had the shot, but not (so far) seen any super-bad cases in post-vaccine patients (i.e. ones with permanent pain as a result).

I think overall though, it is funny how the government/news media say doctors are just pawns of the pill-makers, and prescribe too many pills that are ineffective, expensive, and sometimes dangerous. THEN the same 'experts' tell us that we should all run out and get every new vaccine the day it is patented, and that any doctor who hesitates to push people to do that is a bad guy. Kind of a double-standard, eh...?

[stretch]

My old friend Joe has what appears to be a permanent
case of the shingles. He's 87, and in pretty much constant
pain from it on his right side. He mostly hangs out at home
in a bathrobe or in the altogether. Still, he maintains a pretty
cheerful demeanor, except when the NY Giants are losing. Then
things get ugly......

I dunno - I've thought about getting it. Constant pain is NO FUN.
But then again , the chances of getting a permanent case are
actually pretty low.

I've probably done nothing to help you in your decision, but there
ya are!

-Stretch

[Chris83716]

Not a doctor and I did not stay in a Holiday Express last night so this advise may be worth what you paid for it.

Back in April my grandfather age 90 went from reasonably heathy for a 90 year old to dead in a week and a half. Only real thing that changed was a case of the shingles. Last week or his life all he could say was "OH GOD", and he was not religious in any way after going through WWII.

Take it for what it's worth but I think I would get the shot.

Chris

[piller]

If you want to find out what pain is, then you should ask someone with a bad case of shingles. Funny, but if you are willing to put a little dot of capsaicin containing pain cream on the area where it hurts, then pain goes a way a lot sooner. The people I have talked to who were willing to use the causing a lot more pain to make all the pain go away remedy were the ones who got over it in a week or less. The ones who turned to toxic doses of hydrocodone/acetaminophen tablets were the ones for whom it lingered. This is just my view from talking to, and trying to help, about 1 person per week for the last 20 years.

My parents got the shot.

[Mescalero]

pillar,
not sure I understood what you were trying to convey.

[AJMD429]

I think what Piller was referring to is that the capsaicin fixes the pain properly and locally whereas the hydrocodone just makes you not bothered as much by the pain.

[Mescalero]

The Pharma at Walgreens said the shot preventing contracting numbers were positive, but he did not elaborate.

[mark08]

I got my shot last year after three of my friends had it. I darn sure didn't want what they had..... so I got a shot. One friend had it from the middle of his back to the bottom of his bottom on his right side. Said the whole area was like a blow torch 24/7 for about five weeks. The others hurt for about two weeks..... So I got the shot. medicare-B pays

[AJMD429]

Medicare-B pays

Sadly, that's the case...

The shot would likely cost about $20 if "insurance" wasn't involved, but far more profitable to big-pharma and government bureaucrats to conceal the cost by inflating it to a 'suggested retail' of $300 or whatever, to force people into the insurance pathway. The fact that ten times or more money is picked out of the patient's pocket is smoothly kept behind-the-scenes, so the electorate (for now) feels no pain...

[Old Ironsights]

If you want to find out what pain is, then you should ask someone with a bad case of shingles. Funny, but if you are willing to put a little dot of capsaicin containing pain cream on the area where it hurts, then pain goes a way a lot sooner. The people I have talked to who were willing to use the causing a lot more pain to make all the pain go away remedy were the ones who got over it in a week or less. The ones who turned to toxic doses of hydrocodone/acetaminophen tablets were the ones for whom it lingered. This is just my view from talking to, and trying to help, about 1 person per week for the last 20 years.

My parents got the shot.

The most important thing with Shingles (like most diseases) is EARLY detection and treatment.

I thought I had a really bad horsefly bite on the back of my head that was not healing right, so I got it checked. Shingles.

Hit it with antivirals and some "shingles special" creme mixed up by a compounding pharmacist (and also used capsicum+olive/castor oil topical) it stayed relatively small (about silver dollar sized). Now that I know what to watch for, and how to treat it quickly, I'm less inclined to pay for the shot.

[piller]

OI, if everyone would do it the way you did, the shot would not be necessary.

The capsaicin containing cream causes the nerves to send out the chemical messengers that they manufacture to signal pain faster than they can make it. In a short while, the pain goes away. The antivirals put the chicken pox back to sleep and life goes on. If you think causing pain to stop pain doesn't work, try eating hot sauce or something spicy like that (Jalapeno poppers are almost too mild to work) and then wait a little bit, and have some more. The sting will be gone and the flavor is still there when you have more of the hot sauce or other really spicy food.

[AJMD429]

OI, if everyone would do it the way you did, the shot would not be necessary.

The capsaicin containing cream causes the nerves to send out the chemical messengers that they manufacture to signal pain faster than they can make it. In a short while, the pain goes away. The antivirals put the chicken pox back to sleep and life goes on. If you think causing pain to stop pain doesn't work, try eating hot sauce or something spicy like that (Jalapeno poppers are almost too mild to work) and then wait a little bit, and have some more. The sting will be gone and the flavor is still there when you have more of the hot sauce or other really spicy food.

Yep.

The only other 'shingles' issue is that anyone who gets a case is likely 'stressed' in some manner, just like when you get a 'cold sore' eruption. No big deal, can just be a job change, a few nights without sleep, getting a minor infection, or tax-time, etc.. However it also CAN be some dangerous underlying medical condition you are unaware of, so while an 'occasional' outbreak of shingles is no big deal, especially if the trigger is obvious - a couple cases close together should trigger a search for underlying infection, tumor, etc..

[Old Ironsights]

I don't find the OTC capsacin tropicals to be nearly strong enough so I make my own using "Pure Cap" food grade Capsicum/Olive oil suspension blended with "Badger Oil" massage oil. It burns rubbing in, then burns again in the shower hours later. But it is the BEST deep-heating rub I've ever had/made/used.

(Oh, if you ever have someone else (LMT, etc.) rub it in, they should wear gloves. It WILL burn cuticle and stain towels/massage table sheets.)

[Ysabel Kid]

Constant pain is NO FUN.

You can say that again. Mine isn't shingles, but the net effect is similar. Had another MRI finally, and the disc I had repaired before, which was re-injured with the auto accident I was in in 2012, is now herniated again worse than before. It was all fixed after the previous surgery, so I may have to do it again.

[AJMD429]

Constant pain is NO FUN.

You can say that again. Mine isn't shingles, but the net effect is similar. Had another MRI finally, and the disc I had repaired before, which was re-injured with the auto accident I was in in 2012, is now herniated again worse than before. It was all fixed after the previous surgery, so I may have to do it again.

Just be careful - the 'medical community' has decided that 'chronic pain patients' are all dishonest drug abusers and/or drug dealers, so you will face an increasingly hostile health-care world if you dare to admit you prefer to go about your day without severe pain distracting you and causing things to be unpleasant. Yeah, Rah, HWOD...

[J Miller]

What AJMD said. When the e-coli hit me I was in agony. The ER docs treated me just like he said until they checked my blood pressure and heart rate, both almost off the scale from the pain. They finally gave me something ... but very grudgingly. Seems that the current concept is to let you suffer so they can feel superior about not giving you pain meds.

Joe

[piller]

What AJMD said. When the e-coli hit me I was in agony. The ER docs treated me just like he said until they checked my blood pressure and heart rate, both almost off the scale from the pain. They finally gave me something ... but very grudgingly. Seems that the current concept is to let you suffer so they can feel superior about not giving you pain meds.

Joe

Now that hydrocodone products are all Schedule II, it is even more difficult to get pain killers. Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants can not write for hydrocodone anymore.

[octagon]

Piller I assume that all MD's can still prescribe hydrocodone products, correct? Or are there restrictions on them too?

[wecsoger]

Got my own comments on a lot of the pain pills my docs have been handing me, but that's for another day.

Just to get back to the topic of the thread, here's what I understand so far.

Shingles suck

You prolly should get the shot.

For me, I just have another short turn around the pasture before I hit the big six oh, so it looks like I need to be checking what what I can do to get it, and if the insurance plan covers it.

[Old Ironsights]

Insurance won't usually "cover" a "Shingles Special" cream as mixed up by a Compounding Pharmacist, but it makes a HUGE difference in severity/duration/spread. Coupled with Anti-Virals and Capsicum and it's a relatively easy, if annoying, treatment.

[AJMD429]

Piller I assume that all MD's can still prescribe hydrocodone products, correct? Or are there restrictions on them too?

Both pharmacists and physicians are monitored by a mandatory computer database, and 'outliers' are identified and targeted for 'investigation'. Since there are likely quotas and bonuses at stake for finding and convicting, and since there are innumerable and indecipherable regulations which are often conflicting not only with good clinical practice, but often with other regulations, it is virtually impossible not to run afoul of some or other rule. Therefore we all know we can be 'made an example of' when there is a need for a quota or press-release to sway an election, and we tend to prefer staying out of the orange jumpsuits, even if it means our patients suffer; we rationalize it by telling ourselves that they just need to take more alternative medications, even if they are more costly, less effective, and more dangerous in some patients/cases, doing more therapies, injections, and surgeries, even if they are more costly, impractical, and sometimes dangerous, than the medications. Anyone objecting to this herd-mentality is shoved aside as another 'outlier' in the hopes the authorities will focus on him/her instead of the rest of us.

Gooberment screws up pretty much everything it touches. Why Demoncraps want it to regulate the economy, and Republicraps want it to regulate what we eat, drink, or breathe, is beyond me.

Anyway, if you have a GOOD patient-doctor relationship with a physician you see at least annually, you can likely get acute conditions treated with pain medications when you need them, but if not, you will likely suffer, because none of them will 'trust' you enough to give you actual potent analgesics.

[piller]

Piller I assume that all MD's can still prescribe hydrocodone products, correct? Or are there restrictions on them too?

Both pharmacists and physicians are monitored by a mandatory computer database, and 'outliers' are identified and targeted for 'investigation'. Since there are likely quotas and bonuses at stake for finding and convicting, and since there are innumerable and indecipherable regulations which are often conflicting not only with good clinical practice, but often with other regulations, it is virtually impossible not to run afoul of some or other rule. Therefore we all know we can be 'made an example of' when there is a need for a quota or press-release to sway an election, and we tend to prefer staying out of the orange jumpsuits, even if it means our patients suffer; we rationalize it by telling ourselves that they just need to take more alternative medications, even if they are more costly, less effective, and more dangerous in some patients/cases, doing more therapies, injections, and surgeries, even if they are more costly, impractical, and sometimes dangerous, than the medications. Anyone objecting to this herd-mentality is shoved aside as another 'outlier' in the hopes the authorities will focus on him/her instead of the rest of us.

Gooberment screws up pretty much everything it touches. Why Demoncraps want it to regulate the economy, and Republicraps want it to regulate what we eat, drink, or breathe, is beyond me.

Anyway, if you have a GOOD patient-doctor relationship with a physician you see at least annually, you can likely get acute conditions treated with pain medications when you need them, but if not, you will likely suffer, because none of them will 'trust' you enough to give you actual potent analgesics.

The MDs who still have a DEA license for Schedule II, along with the DOs and DDSs can still prescribe hydrocodone. Yesterday afternoon I worked in Dallas at a store very close to the State Fair of Texas, and filled for the most Schedule II prescriptions that I have ever seen on one shift. Of the 25 scripts, only 2 were not hydrocodone.

This whole situation with the pain relievers is really crazy. If someone suddenly presents with something requiring pain medicines, lets say---shingles, the Doctor in question may or may not be willing to prescribe anything narcotic for the pain. If the Doctor does prescribe something for pain, it might trigger an audit of the Doctor to determine if prescribing practices are within the boundaries of what the State or Federal agencies think is proper. Shingles is now going to be something that will cause hesitation in your Physician due to the possibility that he/she could be audited simply for the proper act of helping you as they are trained to do.

[AJMD429]

Shingles is now going to be something that will cause hesitation in your Physician due to the possibility that he/she could be audited simply for the proper act of helping you as they are trained to do.

Well, all the folks who blindly support the Holy War on Drugs deserve a sincere 'thanks' from all the shingles patients, cancer patients, herniated disk patients, and migraine sufferers...

Man's biggest fault/sin seems to be the insatiable desire to CONTROL everything our neighbors do. If our nation descends into a pit of despair, it will be something that we (in general) deserve, for our 'War on Poverty', our 'War on Drugs', our 'War on Guns', and all the other similar nonsense.

Probably about 40% of the population doesn't support any of those asinine 'wars', and thinks the only legitimate war would be one against a foreign aggressor. Unfortunately, we are outnumbered by the combined forces of the welfare-leeches, union-goons, business-tycoons, anti-gun fanatics, and HWOD supporters...

[Ysabel Kid]

Shingles is now going to be something that will cause hesitation in your Physician due to the possibility that he/she could be audited simply for the proper act of helping you as they are trained to do.

Well, all the folks who blindly support the Holy War on Drugs deserve a sincere 'thanks' from all the shingles patients, cancer patients, herniated disk patients, and migraine sufferers...

Man's biggest fault/sin seems to be the insatiable desire to CONTROL everything our neighbors do. If our nation descends into a pit of despair, it will be something that we (in general) deserve, for our 'War on Poverty', our 'War on Drugs', our 'War on Guns', and all the other similar nonsense.

Probably about 40% of the population doesn't support any of those asinine 'wars', and thinks the only legitimate war would be one against a foreign aggressor. Unfortunately, we are outnumbered by the combined forces of the welfare-leeches, union-goons, business-tycoons, anti-gun fanatics, and HWOD supporters...

Well put. I know drug abuse is awful, but so is suffering by those who aren't trying to abuse drugs and get caught up in the issue now at hand. As one with two of the four conditions Doc describes (I also get migraines), "thank you" is not exactly the words I had in mind (AJ, I know you were being sarcastic).