45 Colt in Mod 94 loads

capitanchris · Post by **capitanchris** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:03 pm

I am presently working up some hunting loads for a modern Win 94 with H110. Does anyone have experense with 250 XTP and 300 XTP load performance? Thanks...

runfiverun · Post by **runfiverun** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:04 pm

i know the 250 will kill deer
doesn't always expand though.
but dead is dead, never had to do much tracking either.

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:11 pm

I had a pretty nice load for my 94 Win trapper in 45LC. It was with the 335 LBT's on top of 19.5 grains of H110. I used it on a bull elk at about 60-70 yards and it worked fine. Never found it as it was a pass through. They chronographed at 1325 fps.
I used the 250 grain XTP's in front of 18 grains of 2400 for deer and it works great. This load shoots very well in this little rifle.

Str8man · Post by **Str8man** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:18 pm

I wonder if you could use 44 magnum loading data in a 45 colt in an action as strong as a 94.
The first time I shot a 45 Colt caliber I was underwhelmed as to the power they seemed to have.
I was shooting at cinder blocks and would be lucky if I could crack one in two with my Colt SA.
Later I handloaded some 45 Colt using 3F black powder and fired at the same cinder blocks and just pulverized them!
That had me scratchin my head as the black powder handloads seemed MUCH hotter than the factory smokeless 45.
I found out the reason was because so many really old revolvers were out there in 45 Colt that they had to make all factory ammo lawyer proof.
I think they over did it though.
Using and 1866 and an 1873 Uberti we chronographed factory 45 colt loads and were getting 950-980 FPS out of 24 inch barrels.
We then switched to 3F black powder and our FPS jumped to around 1175-1200.
Then using Pyrodex cartridge, Clearshot and triple 7 we were getting 1300-1370 fps out of a 45 Colt which is really starting to become a serious deer hunting load out to 100 yards anyway.
With the brass frame 66 we had to stick with with black powder or black powder substitutes because of pressure reasons on the toggle link action but in a 94 with smokeless I bet you could really improve on those ballistics.
It's a much stronger action than the 66 and 73 that we were using.
1200-1300 FPS with a 250 grain bullet is right up in the 44mag ballpark,
Granted it was out of a 24 inch barrel but that's still impressive for using low pressure black powder or black powder substitutes.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:20 pm

These are my 100yd targets using 21gr of 2400 and Hornady 250gr XTP.

The is from my 24" Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited 45Colt . After adjusting for windage and elevation with the first five shots (on the right side) it printed the last 8 shots into one ragged hole in under 2"

Velocity was 1710fps

The bottom is from my 24" Win94 Legacy 45Colt.
It was already sighted in so I didn't need to spend much time at the bench with it. Those four shots came in under 2" as well.

Don't know what kind of performance yet, as I haven't taken any game with them, but I suspect I won't encounter any problems.

Also, for anyone interested in what the potential of the 45colt is, this is a must read.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... vergun.htm

Courtesy of Paco.

arjunky · Post by **arjunky** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:22 pm

Read Paco's article.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... vergun.htm

Byron

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:23 pm

I tried numerous loads in my Rossi/EMF 92 and came to like 23 gr. of H110 under a 300 gr. bullet which gives about 1590 fps in my carbine. This is .45-90 BP performance and I don't doubt that you'll get pass-throughs at least sometimes.

The 240 gr. XTP-MAG and 300 gr. XTP-MAG are designed for these velocities (and the .454 Casull) whereas the 250 gr. STP-HP and 300 gr. XTP-HP are not intended for these velocities. Some folks have expressed disappointment with the latter bullets on game. All will be equally accurate.

I think .45Stomp used 23 gr. H110 under the 330-335 gr. cast bullet and was much pleased with the performance like Wes.

Remember to work up to these top loads.

Str8man · Post by **Str8man** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:26 pm

meanc wrote:These are my 100yd targets using 21gr of 2400 and Hornady 250gr XTP.
Don't know what kind of performance yet, as I haven't taken any game with them, but I suspect I won't encounter any problems.

That is SMOKIN out of a 45 Colt!
I wouldn't hesitate to use that on anything.
That's up there with my 45-70 sharps loads.

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:27 pm

I would stay under about 40,000 for loads in the '94, IIRC, in Paco's articles, this & the Marlins are a step below the modern '92s in strength, which can tolerate 10,000 or so more. jd45

capitanchris · Post by **capitanchris** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:02 pm

Thanks for the info. I have loaded 22.3 H110 behinf the 300 gr. XTP and it kicks like a mule. I estimated around 1300 fps and with that bullet weight is should stop anything at close range. I think the 250 gr. XTP behind 25.7 H110 should give me 1500 fps and better 100 yrd. MOA. Both combination show 27000 to 30000 psi and that should not damage the rifle. Thanks for the input...

Chris

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:27 pm

26 gr. H110 under the 250 gr. XTP gave me 1718 fps avg. I think you're off on your estimate (a good reason to actually use a chronograph, IME). I got 20 fpe recoil energy with the 300 gr. bulleted loads. Not at all uncomfortable in my carbine (although everyone has a different perception).

Marlin .35 · Post by **Marlin .35** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:34 pm

Just want to chime in on PACO's article. Be aware of the loads using RE-7. With a 265WFNGC bullet from Cast Performance, the power and accuracy are outstanding!! Art

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:11 pm

Marlin .35, how much of it is out of the case?........wondering if it'll feed thru the action on my '92. jd45

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:27 pm

I have been playing with a near max load of Tite group and the 250XTP. I dont have a chroni but accuracy is excelent at 25 yards ( indoor range). I hope to get a chance to try it on game this coming fall. My books show that I should be getting around 1100fps from a 7 1/2" Ruger. Should be a bit quiker out of my 94 trapper.

I just went and looked at a box of 250XTP's on my bench the card that came in the box lists that the 250HP/XTP is designed for impact velocities between 800 - 1600fps. Hope this helps.

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:59 am

Just went to the Cast Performance website and from the pic it displays of their 265 WFNGC, it should feed no problem. jd45

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:34 am

jd45,

I just loaded up some Cast Performance 300 gr LFNGC's the other weekend and they cycle good in my EMF 92.

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:38 am

Thanx Ricky, I might try that weight as well. jd45

243dave · Post by **243dave** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:43 pm

Chris, I've been shooting 300 xtps and h-110 for a couple years out of my scoped win trapper. Real accurate even at 200 yds. Like Hobie said there is a difference between xtp mags and regular xtps. If you hit a shoulder of small whitetail at a angle ,a regular 300 gr xtp usually won't exit. It retains weight well but the frontal diameter seems to get to large to exit reliably. The 300 xtp mag is a whole different bullet, from what I've seen I strongly suspect they will go lengthwise through deer. If you like a bullet to exit at any angle, shoot the xtp mag. If you like maximum expansion shoot the regular xtp. I shoot 24grs. of h-110 behind both of the 300gr.xtp bullets which don't seem to be too hot but I love the little gun to much and will reduce by a couple grains. I don't have any experience with any 250 xtps so I can't comment on them. Dave

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:30 am

Here's my experience with Heavy loads in 45 Colt from my Win. M94 with 20" bbl at 50 yds.

Load Data from Hodgdon:(7.25" Ruger Blackhawk)
Hornady 250gr. XTP
25.7 gr. @ 1398 fps (start), 26.5 Gr. @ 1455 fps (MAX)

240 Gr. XTP Mag.:
Hornady 240gr. XTP-MAG
27.2 gr. @ 1483 fps (start), 28.0 gr. @ 1532 fps (MAX)

Range result: 240 gr. Hornady XTP MAG
27.5 gr H110
WLP
Group 1: 2.375" (20 mph crosswind and brother in law leaning
on the bench didn't help)
Group 2: 1.5" with 1 pair touching and a trio touching. (shot
with tailwind)
Avg. Vel. 1880 fps
ES: 42 fps
SD:13 fps
2 Bullets retreived from the dirt backstop were nicely
mushroomed to the cannelure and avg'd 216 gr. retained wt. or
90%.

250 Gr. XTP:
Load and range report - 250 gr. Hornady XTP
20.5 gr. 2400
Vel. 1660
Group: 4 shots clustered in 7/8" with one flyer opening it to
3.375"
Recovered bullets weighed 231 gr. on avg, 92.5% retained wt.
Note: These bullets peeled almost all the way to the base.

Update - Photos!

These were fired Saturday afternoon. To be fair, the embankment I fired these into is very dense clayey sand that is MUCH more dense than a deer or pig. Loads and Velocities are same as above.

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:40 pm

Bump.

I have no doubt that the 250 XTP would be a solid performer in a handgun but I think I'll use the 240 XTP Mag for deer & pigs from my rifle. Having said that, I have used the 240 XTP Mag on a coyote at 25 yds. It did not appear to me that the 240 expanded very much on the 'yote. (Frontal quartering shot entering chest and exiting the ribcage)