OT: Move over Columbus??

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:44 pm

A supposed Viking ship discovered in Tennessee on the shores of the Mississippi River

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/usa-vik ... ipi-river/

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:08 pm

This is interesting also
Read some of the thread below the story
After reading those posts tell me they ain't some nuts in this world

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:52 pm

Wow....I'm gonna Nina minute, and a Pinta ale to think about that one. It almost sailed over my head.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:57 pm

it's a fact that vikings got to the newfoundland area long before columbus got to the florida area

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:23 am

May be surprising, but not completely impossible.

The only reason we didn't have a bunch of folks speaking Scandinavian already in Minnesota when Europeans crossed the Appalachians was the little ice age.

Viking long ships were reported to have made it as far as the Black Sea. There's no reason at all they could not have gone as far or farther in the other direction.

Pull up Google Earth, not a distorted map, take a look at Iceland and see where it is in relation to England and Newfoundland. The fact Vikings were in the 'new world' is not surprising at all.

What's curious is why they left. And again, there's the Little Ice Age probably the main reason.

765x53 · Post by **765x53** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:15 pm

The key phrase in all claims of pre-Columbus discovery is "archaeological evidence".
It means no-one knew.

If you discover something and then keep it a secret, it doesn't count.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:37 pm

Columbus had better media contacts.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:03 pm

How do you "Discover" a country when kajillions of folks are already living there, having already formed a complex society? There were Native Americans living quite nicely all over the dang place before Chris or anyone else (Vikings) showed up. I guess I "discovered" Mexico on my last visit.

765x53 · Post by **765x53** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:29 pm

octagon wrote:How do you "Discover" a country when kajillions of folks are already living there, having already formed a complex society? There were Native Americans living quite nicely all over the dang place before Chris or anyone else (Vikings) showed up. I guess I "discovered" Mexico on my last visit.

If you came from another planet or a previously uncontacted jungle tribe, yes you did.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:46 pm

octagon wrote:How do you "Discover" a country when kajillions of folks are already living there, having already formed a complex society? There were Native Americans living quite nicely all over the dang place before Chris or anyone else (Vikings) showed up. I guess I "discovered" Mexico on my last visit.

The current iteration of NAs displaced a couple kajillion other NAs themselves. War and conquest has been a central part of humanity. I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle. Give it a few hundred years. It looks like White folk are on the way out

Hawkeye2 · Post by **Hawkeye2** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:28 pm

Read This:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/876889- ... e-is-fake/

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:58 pm

BlaineG wrote:
octagon wrote:How do you "Discover" a country when kajillions of folks are already living there, having already formed a complex society? There were Native Americans living quite nicely all over the dang place before Chris or anyone else (Vikings) showed up. I guess I "discovered" Mexico on my last visit.
The current iteration of NAs displaced a couple kajillion other NAs themselves. War and conquest has been a central part of humanity. I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle. Give it a few hundred years. It looks like White folk are on the way out

Yes, except this world don't have a few hundred years left, before divine intervention. But whites do seem to be on our way out, because we are too liberal, too stupid, too lazy to vote, too independent, and too soft-hearten to protect what we have.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:18 pm

Hawkeye2 wrote:Read This:
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/876889- ... e-is-fake/

Aha!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:25 am

Lastmohecken wrote:
BlaineG wrote:
octagon wrote:How do you "Discover" a country when kajillions of folks are already living there, having already formed a complex society? There were Native Americans living quite nicely all over the dang place before Chris or anyone else (Vikings) showed up. I guess I "discovered" Mexico on my last visit.
The current iteration of NAs displaced a couple kajillion other NAs themselves. War and conquest has been a central part of humanity. I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle. Give it a few hundred years. It looks like White folk are on the way out
Yes, except this world don't have a few hundred years left, before divine intervention. But whites do seem to be on our way out, because we are too liberal, too stupid, too lazy to vote, too independent, and too soft-hearten to protect what we have.

No corporeal person knows when that will be....

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:36 am

Corporeal? Heck, I never went in the service!

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:26 am

BlaineG wrote:
Lastmohecken wrote:
BlaineG wrote:
octagon wrote:How do you "Discover" a country when kajillions of folks are already living there, having already formed a complex society? There were Native Americans living quite nicely all over the dang place before Chris or anyone else (Vikings) showed up. I guess I "discovered" Mexico on my last visit.
The current iteration of NAs displaced a couple kajillion other NAs themselves. War and conquest has been a central part of humanity. I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle. Give it a few hundred years. It looks like White folk are on the way out
Yes, except this world don't have a few hundred years left, before divine intervention. But whites do seem to be on our way out, because we are too liberal, too stupid, too lazy to vote, too independent, and too soft-hearten to protect what we have.
No corporeal person knows when that will be....

No one knows the day or time, not even the angels in heaven, according to the bible, this is true. But I believe we are living in the end times, now how long that time will be, is the question.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:11 am

Other than bragging rites, does it really matter who the first folks to make it here from the "old" world were? Heck, I know folks who brag about being descended from early English settlers. Which means they likely left just before the bailiff threw them in debtors prison.

Oh, and here's another bit. Let's say the Norsemen (they were only Vikings when they were raiding) were the first ones to get here from the "old" world. By then, they had been trading and raiding all over Europe for a very long time. And, raiders and traders being mostly men (stories of women Norsemen(women) aren't uncommon), left babies behind, and took women and men as slaves and spouses back to their homes.

So, like travelers and warriors since time began we have been diluting the various bloodlines. And that's a good thing, cuz if you interbreed too much you get folks like Obama.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:46 am

RE: the End of Times or the End of the World as We Know It.

The Viking prediction was The End happening in February 2014.

Back in very late 900’s, people and church leaders were terrified that the end of Time was nigh.

And probably Great Sooth Sayer Nostradamus as well as Sibylline books made some sort of prediction when the world would end.

In the late 1940’s-early 1950’s, the advent of the atomic and hydrogen bombs forecasted The End quickly was approaching and could not be stopped.

During the 1980’s, AIDS was predicted to kill off mankind.

Back in 2000, people were predicting the end was going to happen. Think of the Y2K scare and scam resulting in people purchasing generators, survival food, ammunition, and water, etc. It was predicted that planes would fall from the sky, cars would not start, banks would lose all records, etc.

For some, the 2008 election forecasted The End.

Then in December 2014, we had The End as predicted by the Mayans – remember the Mayan Calendar prediction? But the Mayan were not smart enough to predict their own demise….

Now this year, the three super full moon astrological occurrence is thought as a prediction of the quickly approaching End. Some also claim that the Ebola virus will kill of civilization.

Myself, I think the gods are laughing at us….

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:21 pm

There are fairly credible reports from oral history that European fishermen were here long before Columbus but kept the secret of the bounty on the Cod from the Grand Banks real quiet. However it was Columbus who set the rush of conquest.

This find is very interesting. It is interesting when we can rewrite the history books with such workable science.

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:33 pm

The Amerindians came here, several times, long before the Vikings and they too came from the 'Old World'.

It was Columbus who established permanent European colonies here. The others came and left.

Don't worry about the end times. No less than Charles Newton himself has assured us that the world will not end until 2060. I will just have to take his word for it as I surely will not be here to verify it.

Vikings brought their ships overland (portage) from the Baltic Sea until they reached streams flowing southward to the Black Sea. They had established trading routes with the north.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:57 am

about 200bc a ship from the mediterranean landed somewhere in the gulf of mexico and the sailors dispersed and eventually were running for their lives, or run down. there is an inscribed account on a rock in what is now new mexico from what sounds like the last survivor.

it is dated by the alphabet that was used, a paleo greek alphabet that was used for a short period of time as the language was changing. I have the story documents in my alaska office so this account is based on a few gray cells that are firing tonight.

personally I believe there never was much isolation for very long between seashore destinations. as long as men had boats they could go anywhere they wanted to go. the globe has been circumnavigated by an open sailboat, and a 13 foot closed sailboat. the pacific ocean has been rowed several times by solo sailors, and the atlantic has been rowed hundreds of times, all contemporary to our times. there is no reason the same kinds of voyages could not have been made at any time in past, in pre-history even, as with the greek sailor running for his life in the midwest.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:42 am

Grizz where a bouts is that rock?

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:15 am

There is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavener_Runestone But I don't put much stock in it.

FWIW, when I lived in Oslo, Norway, I spent some time in the Viking Ships Museum on Big Doye island. Among the many things that were unearthed when some viking long-boats were excavated included several jade Budda's from China. The Vikings were traveling the "Silk Roads" long long before Marco Polo ever "discovered" the Orient.

But I don't think they sailed up the Mississippi or rattled around New Mexico. There is, however a very good account of a single survivor of a Florida shipwreck in the 1500s that walked from Florida to Arizona. His journal was published and I believe is widely accepted as genuine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81lvar ... za_de_Vaca

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:54 am

octagon wrote:Grizz where a bouts is that rock?

wish I could tell you. as I said, my info is in Alaska. Might as well be in Oslo. I have a booklet that has photos of the inscription with a translation of the statement. I find it credible, but most people can't comprehend any prehistoric people cruising around the globe. I find that completely idea totally do-able. Without an iphone even. It would be exactly like William Bligh's epic trans pacific voyage in Bounty's longboat, and would have likely taken the track of the huge fleet of rowboats that have crossed from the Azores to the Bahamas. That is done with boring routine regularity according to the statistics. Of course, the greek sailor in 200BC was likely certain that no one could have done what he did a thousand years prior to his trip. .. .. . I think Otzi could have done it if he were a seafarer..

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:39 am

octagon wrote:Grizz where a bouts is that rock?

I replied in a new thread:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=60407

hope someone finds it as intriguing and interesting as I do

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:48 am

Lastmohecken wrote: No one knows the day or time, not even the angels in heaven, according to the bible, this is true. But I believe we are living in the end times, now how long that time will be, is the question.

Exactly. The beginning of the end will start with God's people in Israel. Look at what is going on there now.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:54 pm

Grizz I find that link fascinating. I wonder who could have scared that fella so bad as to run out into such a desolate spot. Maybe it was more hospitable then. Thanks for the link.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:44 pm

octagon wrote:Grizz I find that link fascinating. I wonder who could have scared that fella so bad as to run out into such a desolate spot. Maybe it was more hospitable then. Thanks for the link.

My Ex

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:52 pm

octagon wrote:Grizz I find that link fascinating. I wonder who could have scared that fella so bad as to run out into such a desolate spot. Maybe it was more hospitable then. Thanks for the link.

what Blaine said . . .

actually the pre history plains were not peaceful, the various language groups did not live in peace, and Zack would have been hunted for his possessions or just for the fun of it. he might have had a bronze sword or spear. he might have just stuck out like a sore thumb. and likely wound up like Otzi while trying to survive. there is some back story that I don't recall, but the inscription is dramatic.

on another note, the Chinese sailed to Oregon for cedar for their masts, and porcelin chards were found in Montezuma's castle. trade or contraband is not known.

my theory is that humans ranged far and wide around the world for as long as human history exists. while there have been some isolated pockets of isolated survivors, I don't regard that as the norm.

wm · Post by wm » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:03 pm

Columbus was able to follow up on his effort and make money for his investors........the Vikings didn't. Therefore Columbus was the first successful discoverer of America (if you discount the Asians who became Indians and the evidence that some Polynesians, Chinese and Japanese established some short lived trade routes).

It kind of reminds me of two fleas arguing over whose dog it is.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:00 am

I don't discount the Asians/Indians. Whether they got here via land bridge or by boat or both, there is a LOT of evidence that suggest they were here 10-12 thousand years ago. A carved antler tool found in Alaska was carbon 14 dated to about 40 thousand years ago. I suggest that the first folks that set foot in America discovered it. They became a rich, diverse part of the culture by inhabiting it. Not like Chris who just stopped for a visit some 9500 years later. My 2 cents and with just that.

PriseDeFer · Post by **PriseDeFer** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:04 am

But after Columbus did it no one ever had to do it again.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:25 am

Grizz I wonder if those Chinese were after the Port Orford Cedar, which grows to great heights before there is any branching off, making it clear as a bell. I think it is the best quality cedar as it is so clear ( no knots ). To my knowledge, it is mostly found in Oregon,mandate is straight and white when you cut into it.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:40 am

octagon wrote:Grizz I wonder if those Chinese were after the Port Orford Cedar, which grows to great heights before there is any branching off, making it clear as a bell. I think it is the best quality cedar as it is so clear ( no knots ). To my knowledge, it is mostly found in Oregon,mandate is straight and white when you cut into it.

Yup, that's exactly what I read, port orford cedar for masts. Don't recall the source, but with the search engines it should be relatively easy to find more info. not that hard a trip if the japan current was working the same way then that it goes now. Maybe that's how the cedar was discovered?

"News Flash: In an unprecedented typhoon caused by global sneezing several junks were dismasted. After drifting for many months the survivors stumbled on a forest of ship masts and rerigged their ships. They returned to the motherland in the short time of seven years with wild unbelievable tales for which they were promptly executed."

or some such nonsense

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:51 am

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:07 pm

http://sciencenordic.com/dna-links-nati ... -europeans
http://www.abroadintheyard.com/surprisi ... a-testing/

Cherokees in the mid-south claim to have Viking ancestors - looks like they're right.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:47 pm

thanks for those links Bulldog. good reading.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:10 pm

Bulldog that first link is neat. Can't get the second to fire up for now, but the first seems to lend weight to an early arrival thesis. There is a lake in West Texas that carbon 14nd some organic material from a campsite that dated to 19 thousand years ago to the Paleo period. Evidence reaching this far back is scarce and always exciting to those who a follow such activities. When I was a young fella I was quite interested in this stuff, and you boys have resparked my interest - thanks!

Grizz, odd that you mention the Japanese in the same sentence with the Port Orford Cedar (POC). The old time loggers in N Cal and Oregon say that the Japanese were wild about POC and it's beautiful straight grain for purposes of building caskets for burial. They bought up so much of this expensive and rather limited resource that soon it was illegal to cut any more of it. The old timers would say that there was more POC underground in Japan than there was aboveground in the Northwest.

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:28 pm

Ray Newman wrote:RE: the End of Times or the End of the World as We Know It.

Then in December 2014, we had The End as predicted by the Mayans – remember the Mayan Calendar prediction? But the Mayan were not smart enough to predict their own demise….

[b]What demise? The Mayans are still alive and multiplying.[/b]

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:56 pm

Mayans in Yucatan have been trying for their own country since the 1970s. The perimeters of many of their towns are militarized by the Mexican army.
Mayans only predicted the accuracy of their calendar, starting over in December 2012. Not bad for 1,872,000 days.
(it was ufobigfootancientalientvmountebanks who conned the end of the world)

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:06 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:Mayans in Yucatan have been trying for their own country since the 1970s. The perimeters of many of their towns are militarized by the Mexican army.
Mayans only predicted the accuracy of their calendar, starting over in December 2012. Not bad for 1,872,000 days.
(it was ufobigfootancientalientvmountebanks who conned the end of the world)

As far as I know, that's Belize, Nee British Honduras.....English is the national language, and the Mayans are wonderful hosts....If I was of a mind to ex-pat somewhere, Belize would be very close to the top of the list. A friend just moved down there. I hope to do a extended visit someday. I was there three weeks with an Army Band tour, and it was paradise.....

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:04 pm

Ray Newman wrote:Then in December 2014, we had The End as predicted by the Mayans – remember the Mayan Calendar prediction?

The Mayans predicted no such thing.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:10 pm

FWiedner wrote:
Ray Newman wrote:Then in December 2014, we had The End as predicted by the Mayans – remember the Mayan Calendar prediction?

The Mayans predicted no such thing.

More to the point, December 2014 hasn't happened yet. At least I don't think so.

did I miss it?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:57 pm

BrentD wrote:
FWiedner wrote:
Ray Newman wrote:Then in December 2014, we had The End as predicted by the Mayans – remember the Mayan Calendar prediction?

The Mayans predicted no such thing.

More to the point, December 2014 hasn't happened yet. At least I don't think so.
did I miss it?

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:15 am

Ray Newman wrote:RE: the End of Times or the End of the World as We Know It.

The Viking prediction was The End happening in February 2014.

Back in very late 900’s, people and church leaders were terrified that the end of Time was nigh.

And probably Great Sooth Sayer Nostradamus as well as Sibylline books made some sort of prediction when the world would end.

In the late 1940’s-early 1950’s, the advent of the atomic and hydrogen bombs forecasted The End quickly was approaching and could not be stopped.

During the 1980’s, AIDS was predicted to kill off mankind.

Back in 2000, people were predicting the end was going to happen. Think of the Y2K scare and scam resulting in people purchasing generators, survival food, ammunition, and water, etc. It was predicted that planes would fall from the sky, cars would not start, banks would lose all records, etc.

For some, the 2008 election forecasted The End.

Then in December 2014, we had The End as predicted by the Mayans – remember the Mayan Calendar prediction? But the Mayan were not smart enough to predict their own demise….

Now this year, the three super full moon astrological occurrence is thought as a prediction of the quickly approaching End. Some also claim that the Ebola virus will kill of civilization.

Myself, I think the gods are laughing at us….

LOL

-- yes ---

I will share an observation i have -- that is namely, --- look at a cross section of devout 20-something (more or less) go-getters. The kids with the energy to go out on mission trips, help build dams, cure the sick , feed the wretchedly poor, etc etc.

Take a poll of those "kids" and young adults and ask them if the world is in its biblical "End Times" -- and i would predict the answer would be not no, but hell no

Yes occasionally we are going to get a politician we dont agree with -- and Israel is likely also going to keep getting into fights, ad infinitum

---- The declaration of "End Times, They are a Comin " is usually brought about by otherwise depressed and fed up people in or approaching their middle age years and beyond ----
------ A lot of the lawlessness today has always been there, its just more publicized ---- most of us talk on a cell phone device with more capabilities than a supercomputer of the 70's and early 80's now

The fogies have been talking about "End Times " for 200 years , -- but without quoting specific scripture, i recall a verse about the "twinkling of an eye" and that we may not have any advance warning at all

If its gonna happen, its just gonna happen ---------- the b-s that occurs today in our society is no match for the genocidal activities of Hitler, --- or the persecution of the Tibetan people by the Chinese that is on-going -- and i am sure a lot of Americans in the 20's and 30's were rallying about the end of days in the wake of the Great Depression ----- but we're still here

My thoughts are spiritually we should maintain a sense of readiness, -- by being content with our relationships with our friends, loved ones and our other secular things that if it should happen when we are just on our way to work or to the shooting range (in the twinkling of an eye) --- we can leave this world content in the fact that our loved ones know exactly where they stand in our lives and their importance --- and by loved ones, i will extend that to our pets, as well as the animals we attempt to honor in the hunting fields at times

and if it happens, it happens , -------- but if it doesnt , i will suffice to say that living in this manner is still a darn good way to live and hopefully be a good example for a few more generations

Call me crazy, but i do not accept the idea that we are entering our "end times" yet by most peoples definitions ----- most of the drama is horse pucky dreamed up by depressed middle aged and old aged men and women and they should spend more time with some energetic youngsters to boost their spirits ------- jump in and fill your spirit with positive energy if you can

------ (just my thoughts --- to keep this from getting moved or locked, - send me a pm if you want to flame me

, but i am in a great mood and i live my life here on this big ol dirtball )

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:26 am

BlaineG wrote: As far as I know, that's Belize, Nee British Honduras.....English is the national language, and the Mayans are wonderful hosts....If I was of a mind to ex-pat somewhere, Belize would be very close to the top of the list. A friend just moved down there. I hope to do a extended visit someday. I was there three weeks with an Army Band tour, and it was paradise.....

used to fly to Cancun and drive down Quintanna Roo coast to Akumal in the 80s - before Gilbert and before expats took over Playa del Carmen (it was 2000 souls then, now 70,000) - you could still barter at the airport for a week's rate on the car rental. Drove all over Yucutan. Mayans are wonderful people who want our friendship.

and Paul expected times to end within his lifetime.
all of history has been the end of times - the plague, Napoleon, Darwin, Jimmy Carter - every event throughout history has been interpreted as a harbinger of the end.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:57 am

Grizz and octagon,
There are writings on bluffs or cliffs along the Cimarron River in the OK and TX panhandles. It all connects to the Mississippi River and we know the old timers traveled the rivers. Just a couple days walk to New Mexico through some beautiful country.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:31 am

I thought the Cimarron and the Canadian flowed south to the gulf?

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:09 pm

I know the Canadian flows into the Red - I bet the Cimarron does, too.
But the Red flows into the Atchafalaya and that into the Mississippi.
In case you don't know, the Mississippi delta is now a manmade artifact.
The whole river would turn into the Atchafalaya now except for a series of dams that make the two rivers flow backwards to divert 70% of the flow to NOLA.
Nature would have the tides washing away NOLA and the new delta would be growing faster at Morgan City.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:14 pm