Choosing a CCW weapon ...

[piller]

I know what you were saying, but sometimes people try to make old crotchety civilians who have never been in any form of the military feel that their opinions or skills are not as valid as those of people in the military. I know of a lot of people who have never been in the military that I would not want to be in a fight with, nor would I want them stalking me through the woods.

I notice a dangerous trend right now in that people are viewing military and law enforcement as a separate class from ordinary citizens.

I also know some that have been in the military but have very little firearm knowledge and can't hit the side of a barn at the target range.

And yet they think they are operators . . .

I get a kick out of the guys running around in 5.11 pants everywhere they go with Danners, molon labe t shirts and Delta wannabe beards. Really subtle - plus the magpul decals on the jeep tell me which vehicle to break into while they are high fiving each other somewhere !

Plus, if you are in a restaurant with them, or wherever, and someone comes in to rob the place, you know who will be holding the bad guys attention while you can make a decision on how best to protect yourself. That old ad by Bianchi where he had a suit on and you couldn't see the guns, then the next picture showed you he was carrying 6 different guns, makes a lot of sense. It is not necessary to show everyone just how dangerous you think you are. Heck, even Eleanor Roosevelt carried a .38 in her handbag, and she was often seen at the range with the Secret Service Agents. Look a picture of her, and tell me if you see someone who regularly would shoot and have as high of scores as the best of the Secret Service. Or, do you see a well dressed lady who looks as if she has had a proper upbringing and has money?

[7.62 Precision]

I get a kick out of the guys running around in 5.11 pants everywhere they go with Danners, molon labe t shirts and Delta wannabe beards. Really subtle - plus the magpul decals on the jeep tell me which vehicle to break into while they are high fiving each other somewhere !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y17PgdpeTlQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gje6DganwAM

[7.62 Precision]

The criteria I try to help people adopt for choosing a CCW weapon is:

Is it reliable?
Is it effective?
Does it fit your needs?
Do you shoot it well?
Do you like it?

What the Army thinks it needs, or LAPD, or the SEALs, or some youtube celebrity, or what they like at Gunsite or Thunder Ranch, or what the fat loudmouth behind the counter of the local gunshop says is the ONLY thing to carry, are all interesting things to think about.

But at the end of the day, we all choose what we feel is best for each of us, in our own unique circumstances, and with our own unique preferences.

I hated being forced to use the M9 in the military, but I had no choice, so I used it, and it worked for me (most of the time), even though I didn't like it. When we carry as civilians, we can choose what we prefer, so why would I try to tell someone that their choice is wrong? There are many choices that are good, there are advantages or disadvantages that we love to argue, but if it works for you . . .

I now carry a pistol that says, "Abu Dhabi" on the side of it. I get plenty of grief over that from people. I have been yelled at over it. But it works for me, and man, can I shoot it.

[Streetstar]

I get a kick out of the guys running around in 5.11 pants everywhere they go with Danners, molon labe t shirts and Delta wannabe beards. Really subtle - plus the magpul decals on the jeep tell me which vehicle to break into while they are high fiving each other somewhere !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y17PgdpeTlQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gje6DganwAM

that guy is pretty humorous --- i guess there is a youtube video either about, or lampooning anything these days ----

My favorite is Will Keith - the "fat ninja" --- a tad off topic, but i guarantee wherever he goes, he is CCW'ing an edged weapon of some sort
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dKwHOfd2dk

[Dave]

I have a relative in IL and she and her husband both just got carry permits. Why can't you get one Joe? Too bad that Chief got away.

[J Miller]

I have a relative in IL and she and her husband both just got carry permits. Why can't you get one Joe? Too bad that Chief got away.

Well .............. I could I suppose. If we didn't pay the rent. Or buy groceries. Or gasoline.
Or utilities. You know .... little insignificant things like that.

And .... I haven't yet decided how in the world to explain to the PD why the bad guys stroked out laughing at me when I pulled out IJ and did my John Wayne impression as I cocked the hammer back.
That's kinda hard. "Do ya feel lucky? Well do ya punk?" .... oh wait, that's the other guy. The tall skinny one.

Can you imagine the CCW instructor's reaction the first time I cranked off 40 grains of black powder at the range session? He'd probably charge me for having his BVDs cleaned.

As for that old Chief, that would be a treasure if my mom had kept it. But it's long long gone.


Joe

[piller]

I now carry a pistol that says, "Abu Dhabi" on the side of it. I get plenty of grief over that from people. I have been yelled at over it. But it works for me, and man, can I shoot it.

Is your pistol "Nermal"?

[AJMD429]

With apologies to 7.62 Precision, firearms are quite a bit like women (or "partners", if we're going to be inclusive for the women-folk and men of different persuasion)...

Of all the comments, only one didn't come out sounding very spouse-friendly:

The criteria I try to help people adopt for choosing a wife is:

Is she reliable?
Is she effective?
Does she fit your needs?
Do you shoot her well?
Do you like her?

What woman the Army thinks it needs, or LAPD, or the SEALs, or some youtube celebrity, or what woman they like at Gunsite or Thunder Ranch, or what chick the fat loudmouth behind the counter of the local gunshop says is the ONLY one to marry, are all interesting things to think about.

But at the end of the day, we all choose who we feel is best for each of us, in our own unique circumstances, and with our own unique preferences.

And, one hopes, that both the woman/spouse, and trusty handgun, will be faithfully at your side no matter how bad life turns.

--------------------------

P.S. - a friend with bad-luck in the marriage-department suggested he would rather substitute the word 'dog' for 'handgun', instead, and as a dog-lover, it did make sense to me.

...but if 'wife' is like 'handgun', and 'dog' is like 'handgun', then logic means........

Never mind, 'logic' should be used in the same sentence as 'woman' even less often than 'dog', if you want to live to a ripe old age.

[MrMurphy]

John, people have been making Kydex rigs with 'sweat guards' as they're usually described, for over 15 years. And it wasn't a new concept then........leather rigs have had them at least as an option from the better holster makes since the 90's at least.

[7.62 Precision]

I now carry a pistol that says, "Abu Dhabi" on the side of it. I get plenty of grief over that from people. I have been yelled at over it. But it works for me, and man, can I shoot it.

Is your pistol "Nermal"?

[Streetstar]

I now carry a pistol that says, "Abu Dhabi" on the side of it. I get plenty of grief over that from people. I have been yelled at over it. But it works for me, and man, can I shoot it.

Is your pistol "Nermal"?

Nothing wrong with that Caracal, --- one of the chief engineers was also present in designing the Glock many moons ago
--- I've been wanting to try one of those short sight radius slides myself

[7.62 Precision]

I now carry a pistol that says, "Abu Dhabi" on the side of it. I get plenty of grief over that from people. I have been yelled at over it. But it works for me, and man, can I shoot it.

Is your pistol "Nermal"?

Nothing wrong with that Caracal, --- one of the chief engineers was also present in designing the Glock many moons ago
--- I've been wanting to try one of those short sight radius slides myself

They are super nice to shoot, 18 rounds in the mag, and the speed sights work exceptionally well. I think the speed sights would also be good for some of the older guys who are having more trouble with focus.

Swing by any time and I'll let you shoot it.

[Hillbilly]

I still have 2 J frames, a 3 inch 65, a Springer Champ and Colt OM.....all have been carried over the last 30 years.


Why fumble with a little, slow to load revolver when a Glock 19 loads 16? I thought Glocks were odd.... then after a class or two we got the 'modern pistolcraft' figured out. Carry a gun be prepared to fight with it....the J frame is from an era when bad guys still had some manners.

Self defense is exactly that. Why limit yourself to the minimum firearms around?
The old Rangers we respect went to 1911's and Semi auto rifles and their heritage was rooted in lever actions and Colts. There is a lesson in that,

[J Miller]

Why fumble with a little, slow to load revolver

You ain't never seen me shoot dude. And I despise Glocks. Period, end of discussion.

Joe

[Hillbilly]

Joe, with all due respect.... you should edit this post to ' I really, really want a SW36.'

I don't have to see you shoot. I see a lot of middle aged guys, some real sportsmen, come through ccw classes every month. The all do ok on a square range with all the time in the world. A few see the light.... come back for some schooling and some give up the old for the effective.

See, to fight with a handgun requires some mental preperation. Sure, that bump in the night is 'usually' nothing, but when it is something .... you need more than a classic and an good thought. Nobody drives US 66 in a Buick Dynaflo anymore....and lots of folks with genuine skillset way older than you have adopted the modern handgun simply because they are too old to roll around the gravel anymore.

So, you're a died in the wool civilian. Really? How bout you get a sign in the yard for that... Racing improves the breed, Joe. The mil/competive cross over is a source of growth. If we can't learn....we stop growing.

So, with all due respect.... Find a j frame. I hope your real or perceived skills are never tested.

[Lastmohecken]

I own and carry all kinds of handguns, from all sorts of Glocks from 22's to 42's, and 1911's from full size 5 inch to 3.5 inch compacts, and numerous revolvers from the little NAA 22mag to smith model 29's and even single action Ruger's and Colts. The best gun is the one you have with you at the time of need, and it will always serve you better then the one you left in the truck or back home in the safe.

The main thing is be proficient with whatever you carry. For a pure carry gun, if I had to pick just one, it would be a Lightweight Commander in 45ACP, because I have been shooting 1911's for 35yrs and they still carry concealed about as well as anything for a gun of large caliber. But sometimes I don't want to dress around the gun, and will carry smaller guns. I like to have plenty of options. There is no one best option, only compromises.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Hillbilly]

ILLINOIS ccw fee is $150 for 5 years ..... $30 bucks a year. The state mandated class is 16 hours. Seems comparable with Michigan


Classes run about $225 in central Illinois...... when I came to Nevada the NV/ UT deal was in that ball?park.

[J Miller]

Joe, with all due respect.... you should edit this post to ' I really, really want a SW36.'

I don't have to see you shoot. I see a lot of middle aged guys, some real sportsmen, come through ccw classes every month. The all do ok on a square range with all the time in the world. A few see the light.... come back for some schooling and some give up the old for the effective.

See, to fight with a handgun requires some mental preperation. Sure, that bump in the night is 'usually' nothing, but when it is something .... you need more than a classic and an good thought. Nobody drives US 66 in a Buick Dynaflo anymore....and lots of folks with genuine skillset way older than you have adopted the modern handgun simply because they are too old to roll around the gravel anymore.

So, you're a died in the wool civilian. Really? How bout you get a sign in the yard for that... Racing improves the breed, Joe. The mil/competive cross over is a source of growth. If we can't learn....we stop growing.

So, with all due respect.... Find a j frame. I hope your real or perceived skills are never tested.

TWADDLE....HOGWASH....and FAETORIS DUNG !!!!!

Mister Miller wants a five-shot .38 special snub nosed revolver because, back when he was a wee lad, his Mom carried one in the course of her duties. Why is everyone determined to challenge his decision? His gun fighting skills, real or imagined, are none of our business.

Ray,
Thanks.

Joe

[AJMD429]

I own and carry all kinds of handguns, from all sorts of Glocks from 22's to 42's, and 1911's from full size 5 inch to 3.5 inch compacts, and numerous revolvers from the little NAA 22mag to smith model 29's and even single action Ruger's and Colts. The best gun is the one you have with you at the time of need, and it will always serve you better then the one you left in the truck or back home in the safe..

Yep. I have on occasion carried many firearms - the first one (as a pharmacy student working part-time evenings in ghetto pharmacies, in pre-CCW Ohio no less ) was a Super Blackhawk [ - actually it was my choice because it was my only center-fire handgun back then - ], but since then a NAA 22 Mag has sometimes been the carry-gun (out jogging wearing nothing but running shorts and shoes), and pretty much everything in between (maybe even an occasional folding-stock item under a long coat when in a very bad place ).

However, I keep going back to two firearms - both 'obsolete'. A 5-shot snubbie in 44 Special (with laser grips) and a 1911 double-stack in 45 ACP (love those 14 BIG bullets). Each has its advantages and disadvantages, but both serve good purpose. IF I'm some place neither is 'appropriate', I'll go smaller if I truly need more concealment (I don't fret that much, thanks to living in a pro-CCW environment - I've been known to just wrap a couple paper-towels around my 1911 to 'conceal' it, or more honestly, to keep excess sweat off of it, and stick it halfway in my pants if wearing no shirt and running to town for something on a hot day ). I suppose if I were going to a place where I thought I might wish I'd brought a rifle instead, I might just stick the Redhawk in a paper bag and carry it in my hand (or more likely, just stay out of that place.)

The point is, whatever JOE can shoot, JOE should carry. I haven't seen a firearm yet that I'd want to get shot by, nor one that won't make bad-guy DRT if an accurate shot is made.

Now, on the other hand, we all have all kinds of good advice on what firearm is 'best' though, and all sorts of grief to give Joe, or anyone else, over whatever their choice of CCW gun is, which is what makes these threads fun...

Whatever one chooses, fire a minimum of 500 rounds before depending on it, and after 5,000 rounds, make sure nothing has worn too much or come loose, fire another 5,000, then you really won't care what anyone else thinks about your choice. You will at that point be 'inferior' statistically to the guy/gal who has a 'better choice' gun and has also done the 10,000 round thing, but most folks out there are way shy of that level of practice and familiarity with their particular CCW gun. (That is why I keep coming back to those same two firearms - I've fired a couple thousand rounds through a few other centerfire handguns, and ten times that through some rimfires, but only those two have gotten to the 10k level - actually the Bulldog is the third one I've owned and only has a couple thousand through it, but it is ergonomically identical to a half-dozen other firearms I've fired lots through.)

[Mescalero]

I got thinking about Joe's mom being a meter maid in Farmington back in 1957.
Farmington has always been a rough & tumble little town.
Back in 57 she could have checked every parking meter in town 2 or 3 times during the course of a day.
Probably a good thing for a woman to carry a gun in downtown Farmington.
It gets really jumping during tribal council, some of those Indians don't like each other very much.
Even different clans in the same tribe can't stand each other.

[JohndeFresno]

John, people have been making Kydex rigs with 'sweat guards' as they're usually described, for over 15 years. And it wasn't a new concept then........leather rigs have had them at least as an option from the better holster makes since the 90's at least.

My original one was made was before anybody (that I know, at least) ever heard of Kydex, or even plastic holsters.

A shoemaker with the old traditional belt operated sewing machines, now long out of business, did the sewing for me. And the very same holster makers that I see on the Internet with the extended ears on the IWB's were the ones that previously had nothing to offer, thus my modification. There may have been pancakes and such like that, but nothing in soft suede or in a configuration like mine, what I call a true IWB holster where most of the gun is inside the trousers.

But maybe there were some folks who didn't advertise this option. I even remember writing to Bianchi or somebody suggesting the modification, many years ago, for the reasons given - skin protection from the hammer and chafing, sweat prevention for the handgun.

Oh well, it doesn't matter... I got no $$ from the idea, anyway!

[J Miller]

I got thinking about Joe's mom being a meter maid in Farmington back in 1957.
Farmington has always been a rough & tumble little town.
Back in 57 she could have checked every parking meter in town 2 or 3 times during the course of a day.
Probably a good thing for a woman to carry a gun in downtown Farmington.
It gets really jumping during tribal council, some of those Indians don't like each other very much.
Even different clans in the same tribe can't stand each other.

I remember a couple places we lived while there. But I can't ever remember being in downtown Farmington. I must have been, but just don't remember. It's funny how certain things come to mind even though I was only 5 to 10 during that time period, but other things never registered.

Joe

[Catshooter]

AJMD,

Another answer to your question is many of the 3rd gen S&W will feed empties.

My 9mm 6906 would, I've had about five 4506s and they all would. Both of my Shorty 45s would.

You could put an empty anywhere in the mag and start shooting. "Click" would be you telltale. Or you could feed them slowly by hand. Either way.

A good, GI spec 1911 can be set up to do the same but it's not easy. I've never had a Glock that would either.

So while it's an interesting feature it's not really an indicator of an ultra reliable pistol.

Joe,

I was gonna jump on the dogpile with most others but re-thought it. If you buy and carry a 36 that will put you up over 95% of the rest of America.

Just get your good self the hell out of Illenoise. Here is SD a CCW costs $10 with no training requirements, lasts five years. And all the .gov peons don't assume you're a criminal/guilty. They assume you're a good person which is a very nice attitude and one seldom seen in the crowded parts.


Cat

[plowboy 45]

Joe
I don't always carry a gun
But when I do its not concealed
I do realize this is about concealed guns
But I don't live in a big town, and rarely go to them other than passing through
while truckin and thats gittin rare
So I just tote my 45 LC around home and my little town
It's not to dangerous to anybody bad or good I can't draw quick or hit to good with
Just get a lot of goofy looks
So tote that bulldog and be happy
That's what I'd do


PLOWBOY

[Poohgyrr]

Joe,

I expect that carry is a personal choice, and it is your money and business. I hope you never need to use it, but that the rounds are on target if you do. Best.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Joe, carry/shoot the gun you like.

[plowboy 45]

Joe
Just tought of something
I may have already told in another thread
I've got a pic somewhere of myself along about the same age holding daddy's 1894
So guess what, I'm a Winchester 94 man I know exactly your point
No marlin carrin goin on round here
However I do own one 1895 marlin, but I don't tote it
I'll try to find the pic and post if you don't mind

[J Miller]

plowboy 45,

By all means post that pic. Somewhere in 60 + years of hard copy pics I have one of myself with a double rig of SA cap guns. I'd post that if I could find it.

Joe