Is It Just Me Or-

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:00 pm

Does it seem divorce, alcoholism and drug addition seem to be running
totally rampant? I run in mostly Christian oriented circles and I don't ever
remember it being this bad.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:39 pm

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:42 pm

plowboy 45 wrote:Man where you been the last. 25/30 years

Yea, started heavy in the early eighties.....when coke became readily available.----6

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:56 pm

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:59 pm

I do realize it's been bad for awhile.
I guess what's been rocking my world is, it's been more than a few,
in a short period of time, close to home people.
People I would never of expected.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:02 pm

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:34 pm

Instead of "for better or worse, sickness and health, and until death do us part", their mindset seems to be "for awhile, as long as things are going well and you make money, or until I meet someone I think is cuter..."

Sad to say, the "Greatest Generation" unfortunately was the recipient of a heretofore unheard standard of living, which they earned through innovation, hard work, invention, and war. Then they raised a "Boomer" generation that (even though I'm a part of) had an unprecedented percentage of just plain spoiled-rotten, materialistic fools. So many of that generation were too busy trying to out-do their parents in the 'material wealth' department, that they raised a bunch of hippie-rebels who had no concept of what the U.S.A. really was all about, or what made it unique; all that mattered was Peace and Love, man, and nobody should have to work or be responsible. Now we're dealing with their kids and grandkids, and generation upon generation of Democrat-subsidized 'single moms', and Republican-subsidized dope dealers. Reagan said a Free Nation can die in just a couple generations, and we're seeing the truth of that.

We need to get back to where people are held to their commitments, and held responsible for their own actions, thievery, drugs, work, or lack thereof (and those who do act responsibly aren't taxed to death to give handouts and 'treatment programs' and so on to the rest).

We also need to get back to where the Church enforces morality that is real, instead of the politicians, with their hypocrisy, and the police, with their destructive force.

I don't see it happening though, unfortunately...

Temptation has ALWAYS been around since people first started making tools others could steal, or chewing on coca leaves and smoking poppy seeds, and married men and women a thousand years ago looked over the fence at the person next door, and sometimes went astray. We blame the scanty fashions and economy and drugs, and yes they are the 'bait', but the real problem is that we have a society of individuals FAR too willing to violate basic Biblical teachings.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:42 pm

My SWAG (Scientific Wild Arsed Guess) is that it really started during the Summer of Love....

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:57 pm

casastahle wrote:Does it seem divorce, alcoholism and drug addition seem to be running
totally rampant? I run in mostly Christian oriented circles and I don't ever
remember it being this bad.

I've been called obtuse... but I don't see it. At least not in the last 40 years. No greater no less.

The analytical part of my brain sez that's only on a "per capita" basis, even if the actual numbers have increased, one must be cognizant that's within a generally increasing base number.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:11 pm

I'm actually far more concerned with what I see as epidemic levels of emotional instability and lack of anger management...

The other issues follow.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:11 am

I don't see the trends as any worse than they have been during any period during the course of my life.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:58 am

Griff wrote:
casastahle wrote:Does it seem divorce, alcoholism and drug addition seem to be running
totally rampant? I run in mostly Christian oriented circles and I don't ever
remember it being this bad.
I've been called obtuse... but I don't see it. At least not in the last 40 years. No greater no less.

The analytical part of my brain sez that's only on a "per capita" basis, even if the actual numbers have increased, one must be cognizant that's within a generally increasing base number.

Griff, you and FWiedner maybe right.
This could very well be my perception based on increasing population numbers.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:37 am

We also have a 'news' media that makes everything bad or violent or disgusting or tragic a front-page story, and politicians whose business-model has become to convince us that the sky is falling and only they can prevent it (or the climate is 'changing' and only they can prevent it...

)

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:13 am

All of this is just the tip of the iceberg...this country is in a World of Hurt.

.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:44 am

I'd say the birth control pill had a lot to do with our nation's moral decline. Random sex, with whoever, had many, many fewer consequences...

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:26 am

My first wife met someone cuter five years into our marriage, and moved in with him, taking my little girl.
I struggle with alcohol -- beer -- as did my grandfather.
I grew up in a teetotaling Christian home, was forced to attend church until I moved out for college.
Today, I pray every day, rarely attend church, occasionally swear like a Marine and then am ashamed, and seek forgiveness.
When my time is up and my case comes up for review, the good Lord is going to look at my file, and shake his head.
"Bill, why couldn't you be more like Jim Taylor?" He will ask.
And I will look down at my shoes.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:28 am

casastahle wrote:Does it seem divorce, alcoholism and drug addition seem to be running
totally rampant? I run in mostly Christian oriented circles and I don't ever
remember it being this bad.

especially in churches today
in many evangelical churches, the divorce rate is higher than in the public at large.
"Divorce care", co-ed sports groups, and even speed dating have become their bailiwick.
They have elevated the single mother to a virtual worship status, regardless of the choices she made to become a single mother.

Then there is the entertainment industry.
It is not natural for a woman to respect a man, yet it is probably the most important bond in marriage.
All men in all forms of entertainment are targets of disdain.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:32 am

Bulldog, I hate to make this observation, but for a while last year we regularly attended a large and thriving Christian Fellowship church in southern Oregon with services in a beautiful flower-bedecked outdoor amphitheater, and I really have to say that I have never seen more thigh and cleavage anywhere. This was hard for me to reconcile. We don't go there any more.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:46 am

There are lot's of good Ladies out there. Almost all of them are happily married.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:06 am

then there are the really happy ones who have the money of multiple ex husbands.

your instrument left off a whole bunch of these

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:23 am

bulldog1935 wrote:then there are the really happy ones who have the money of multiple ex husbands.

Or the Black Widows.....The very, only-ist thing I can be sure of is that if I marry again, it's not my money they're after ('cause there ain't much...it's all on the carport, or driveway

)

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:38 am

you, too can borrow against the carport.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:50 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:- southern Oregon with services in a beautiful flower-bedecked outdoor amphitheater, and I really have to say that I have never seen more thigh and cleavage anywhere.

Southern Oregon you say? Hmmmmm ---- i have some vacation time coming to me soon

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:54 pm

I think its getting worse. I was at the Memphis zoo yesterday and saw a guy that was on something, I think meth. He was wired and working his bottom jaw like meth users do. He had to be 300+ and it wasnt all fat. I mentioned to a co-worker today I could've got deer meat yerterday at the zoo he asks, "You carry at the zoo?"

Plus, the bible says it will get worse.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:23 pm

Each generation it is worse and will continue in that direction until something major happens to bring humans closer to God. RR7

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:When my time is up and my case comes up for review, the good Lord is going to look at my file, and shake his head.

"Bill, why couldn't you be more like Jim Taylor?" He will ask.

And I will look down at my shoes.

Jim certainly DOES set the bar pretty high for the rest of us, doesn't he...

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:56 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:...occasionally swear like a Marine and then am ashamed, and seek forgiveness.

this could be Peter.

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:12 pm

Casastahle said:

Does it seem divorce, alcoholism and drug addition seem to be running
totally rampant?

Absolutely correct sir! Give that man a cigar. Man has always sinned ever since Adam took a bit of the apple his wife gave him. Man could never live up to the standards of God as set for in the Torah (first five books of the Old Testament). Therefore, the need for Jesus Christ , The Messiah. It was his sacrifice that atoned for ALL mankinds' sins, if only he/she would avail themselves to accepting it.

Whether people want to believe it or not, America was founded upon Biblical standards and most of the founding fathers were Christians. Now I've heard the argument that not all were believers or that they were deists, etc., but most WERE Christians. Washington was sworn in with his hand on the Bible, not McGuffey's reader. The churches in this country preached and teached Biblical principles, and the fallen nature of man. Men like Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield, and Charles Spurgeon, amongst others, preached the fallen nature of man and the need for repentance. Get a CD copy of Edward's sermon "Sinners in the hands of an angry God." and will get an understanding of what I'm talking about. However, over time and the 'modernization', 'progressiveness' and 'Darwinization' of the country (I'm sure other terms can be applied-let the reader of this post use his own discernment) this type of preaching fell out of favor.

Now IMO, over the last 50-60 years the country has slowly and totally kicked God and Jesus out of everyday 'public' life, these things have increased tremendously. First with getting rid of prayer in public schools; the introducing of Rock n' Roll type music; Television (I don't want to get started on this); the destruction and breakup of the typical "Christian" family unit; rise of Feminism; Alternative sexual practices; the use of Alister Crowley's mantra- 'If it feels good do it" and "do what thou wilt," plus other innumerable examples.

Yes I'm sure most of you will say what does Rock n' Roll music have to do with anything? (The devil isn't stupid, heck he was the one who led the angels in playing the musical instruments in worshiping God in his heavenly realm, until he rebelled and got kicked out). Music is one of the ways to subtlety influence and control people's moods and emotions. I even listened to it myself growing up, and still listen to it once in a while, although with much more discretion. However, if you are HONEST with yourself, just listen carefully to the lyrics of some of the songs, even from the fifties, or better yet google the lyrics and read 'em. Most have to do with getting into some girl's pants one way or the other or some other sinful practice. In the fifties it was more hidden and implied; by the time of the sixties, it was out in the open PLUS the advocation of drug usage-Peace & Hippie movement; the seventies were a little more blatant; the eighties more explicit; heck I think you understand where I'm going with this.

Back on track. Just like in the movie "A few Good Men", where Jack Nicholson tells Cruise "You can't handle the truth," People DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH, they want to be spoon fed nice little 'feel good' messages every Sunday for 10 minutes and then go watch football, baseball, etc. God is just a forethought and most people don't have time for him except for an hour on Sunday. Today the mantra is "TOLERANCE." People need to be 'tolerant' of other peoples behavior, even if you don't agree with it. Christians have a particular belief in following God's word but that doesn't count. No, the wicked can't be tolerant in our beliefs but we have to be tolerant of theirs. Sinful practice does not want to be admitted. Just pass a law saying it is permitted and that takes came of the problem and helps to sooth the conscience. Simply & totally crazy. Very, very soon the Bible will be outlawed as hate speech in this country, and people will be persecuted and prosecuted for Christian beliefs just like Jesus said it would occur. However, Love the SINNER, Hate the SIN. Jesus didn't hate or condemn the sinners he encountered but forgave them and told them to SIN NO MORE.

We are living in the end times and to get back to the original thread, Is it Just Me Or- the answer is a resounding OR, for all of the above reasons and many, many more.

I apologize for the length and somewhat rambling of this post but felt it had to be said.

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:18 pm

Bill in Oregon,

We are all sinners pardner but don't feel discouraged or like you are a failure for that's what the devil wants you to feel. He wants people to feel like they are not good enough or are too big a sinner or whatever the reason in order not to embrace Jesus. You need to ask Jesus to come into your life (if you already haven't) and repent and ask for his help with whatever problem(s) you are dealing with. If sincere and you slip and stumble once in a while (don't we all, I know I do?) just repent right then and there and pick yourself up to carry on.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:54 am

UncleBuck wrote:C... I've heard the argument that not all were believers or that they were deists, etc., ...

absurd - our country was born of religious freedom and religious tolerance. The Creator is named in our founding document and signed by our founding fathers. Our founding fathers considered our nation to be the natural outcome of Christianity. The closest to an athiest was Thomas Paine, and you can't really call him one of our founding fathers - he also fell into total obscurity immediately after the revolution. (he really wasn't even an American, he was anti-monarchy, actually anti-private-property - the original communist - and a rabble rowser who happened to follow Ben Frankilin home)

Our country has always been tolerant - we had a gay president in 1856, though he did finish off national division and brought us to civil war.
Gay isn't our problem. Open public worship of sex is our problem.

But if you want to get biblical about this, you can't blame the government or even nonbelievers.
Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land.

the good news, he's given us every day brand new as a fresh start

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:17 am

A couple of quick points: There is a vast difference between being an "unbeliever" and an athiest, and an even wider gulf between Deist and unbeliever.

Of the Founders, at least Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin were Deists. I.e., as they wrote, they had a foundational belief in.God... just not in Religion.

Especially in the case of Jefferson, appearin at church was something he participated in as a Public Duty of the President, but all of his writings on the matter were decidedly in opposition to "the preistly class" and what he considered to be "the corruptions of religion".

So, no, few if any founders were Athiests. Most were sectarian Christian of one stripe or another (including old-style Unitarian), Deists and even a couple of Jews.

And while T.Paine was not a Signatory, his work with the Revolution was a bit more important than that of a simple "rabble rouser"...

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:25 am

6 people attended Thomas Paine's funeral because of his openly declared hatred of Christianity. Don't get him confused with our founding fathers - he served one function - he wrote Common Sense and roused the nation to war. After that, he went off to preach communism in the French Revolution.
Believing our country was founded on Thomas Paine's principals is the greatest lie on the internet today.

As far as believer vs. unbeliever, we are told by The Creator we will all be surprised by who makes it and even more so by who doesn't.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:32 am

Have you ever read his works? Especially Age of Reason?

People liked to call Paine an Athiest, but his writings deny that. For him to be a declared Athiest, he would have to had publicly repudiated his life's work.

Part of the reason he fell into obscurity is that he left the US to help the French Revolution and was impisoned for years before his release was negotiated by (IIRC) Jefferson.

Edit: You know, what with you changing the text of your posts after people reply, Folks are going to start thinking you are a bit disingenuous. You said "because he was a declared athiest", but after my post changed it to "because he declared his hatred of Christianity". That's not a minor "grammar/spelling fix"- it changed the meaning of your post in an apparant effort to make my post irrelevent... and that's not cool.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:36 am

bulldog1935 wrote: Believing our country was founded on Thomas Paine's principals is the greatest lie on the internet today.

what he said

Thomas Paine's contribution of "down with the monarchy" was a great awakening for our fledgling nation. Our Continental Army officers toasted King George in the early years of the revolution and as a people we initially weren't after independence - we only wanted representation and would have settled for commonwealth status.
But after that, Thomas Paine was pretty much ignored by the American people. It's the internet that has awakened his ghost.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:45 am

bulldog1935 wrote:
bulldog1935 wrote: Believing our country was founded on Thomas Paine's principals is the greatest lie on the internet today.
what he said

Quoting yourself in the 3rd person?

I suppose that if you consider "Common Sense" simple rabble rousing, and "The Crisis" unimportant, then I suppose you could say that he is not worthy of being included with the Founders. :rolleyes:

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:53 am

Well, this thread is certainly taking a circuitous path, isn't it?

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:05 am

Personally I blame the Beatles....... I know it ain't all down to them but they suck.....

If I dared say that on Rimfirecentral again I'd get kicked off....

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:51 pm

Yeah, the Beatles and that commie Tom Paine ... a commie 30 years before Karl Marx was even born ...
Sorry, on pain meds ...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:07 pm

Well. . . since this thread is sort of ping-ponging around anyway. . .

Old Ironsights wrote:"A Democrat who owns Guns is like a Vegan that owns Cats..."

Now THAT is FUNNY...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:22 pm

Bulldog1935 said:

But if you want to get biblical about this, you can't blame the government or even nonbelievers

Sorry, I have to disagree with you on this statement. A LARGE part of this is the govt's fault. The SCOTUS in the 1960's stood behind the atheist Madelein Murray O'hare when she brought suit to stop the use of prayer in the public schools; The SCOTUS in 1973 allowed the use of murder of unwanted babies to occur; the govt today is going around endorsing the sodomite agenda not only in this country but sends a hack like Kerry out to tell other nations they must accept it as well. Does this sound like a Christian, God fearing nation to you??????

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:24 am

Hmmmmmmm !

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:01 am

As a Minister I have noticed a big up-swing in divorces in the last seven years, spend allot of times dealing with divorce, pornography, and alcoholism within the church...the Church is definitely under spiritual attack... :(

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:13 am

................ I'm still waiting to learn more about cleavage and thighs in church !

0

Almost sounds like something i'd order up at the local chicken joint -----
"I'll have a 4 piece of cleavage and thighs with a big pair a' biscuits ! "

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:28 am

30wcf wrote:As a Minister I have noticed a big up-swing in divorces in the last seven years, spend allot of times dealing with divorce, pornography, and alcoholism within the church...the Church is definitely under spiritual attack...

30wcf what you say above confirms my original post.

Here's another huge example.
This one I feel is going to cause a major split in the
no longer United Methodist Church.

http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/panel ... s-restored

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:03 am

casastahle wrote:
30wcf wrote:As a Minister I have noticed a big up-swing in divorces in the last seven years, spend allot of times dealing with divorce, pornography, and alcoholism within the church...the Church is definitely under spiritual attack...
30wcf what you say above confirms my original post.

Here's another huge example.
This one I feel is going to cause a major split in the
no longer United Methodist Church.

http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/panel ... s-restored

The same thing is happening in the Presbyterian Church. PCUSA is allowing same sex marrige. Tolerancein the PC realm means accepting sin even though the Bible states flea from immorality.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:37 am

don't forget adultery and divorce among ministers, tv evangelists, christian pop artists
The divorce rate among the claimed "churched" is greater than among those who do not belong to a church.
On Christian radio, marriage has been reduced to "a relationship" and divorce and blend is the normal condition of the family.
In divorce courts, men are treated worse than they are on television.
Our society worships the human form, money, and throws our children into the fire - but what's worse, our churches do the same thing.

Uncle buck, interesting that you don't believe II Chronicles 7.

The French Revolution was a revolution of immorality. They tried to outlaw religion, and re-write the calender to exclude any biblical reference, including the number of days in the week. Thomas Paine's writing contribution to the French revolution was trying to outlaw private ownership and private property.

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:20 pm

Bulldog 1935: I've read (and understand) 2nd Chronicles numerous times.
If the leaders of the country repent we might get a reprieve. Ancient Israel used to fall in and out of God's favor by repenting until one day he said enough and scattered them (after denying that Yeshua (Jesus) was the Messiah.

Could you clarify or restate you question because I don't know what you are asking me.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:22 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:...
The French Revolution was a revolution of immorality. They tried to outlaw religion, and re-write the calender to exclude any biblical reference, including the number of days in the week. Thomas Paine's writing contribution to the French revolution was trying to outlaw private ownership and private property.

And this negates his contribution to the success of the American Revolution in what way?

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:49 pm

Alcoholism, dope addiction, divorces, suicides, etc. - all on the rise since WWI - even within churches.
One of many cites:
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addi ... g-us-women

2571 · Post by **2571** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:09 pm

plowboy 45 wrote:Seems drugs are gittin in every family, if you ain't got it in yours don't fret it'll happen, and it's very aggravating.
My kid's didn't go thata way, but I got and had cousins that got on pills and crack, and it's terrible stuff.
But nowadays grown folks will get on that meth around here.
It ain't just young folks that try dope anymore.

Speak for yourself and your own mom's child rearing deficiencies.

Nothing like that in my family; I'm probably the only one who goes to church regularly but nothing like the lifestyle you describe exists among my kindred.