This Time I'm Disappointed In The NRA

[JerryB]

Would they be looked at in a different light if they ha a slung 30-30 on their shoulder??????

[Old Savage]

I am disappointed in the wording the NRA chose in addressing this.

[Blaine]

I am disappointed in the wording the NRA chose in addressing this.

+1 It's their opinion, but.......

[walks with gun]

This whole episode could have been avoided if someone would have called and asked one of my ex's, there always right, always, always.

[Centennial]

This whole thing was hashed out in 1789 for the Bill of Rights 2nd Amendment.
They couldn't come to a consensus then either. So they kept it simple.
KISS; That is what we should be doing.
If you wait for the antis, lefties, control freaks, and compromisers to come around it will never happen, and you will loose something else in the meantime.

[AJMD429]

Would they be looked at in a different light if they had a slung 30-30 on their shoulder??????

Definitely LEVERGUNS are less 'threatening' to most folks than EBR's.

[shooter]

I just took my concealed carry class here in TX, and if I understood the instructor correctly, TX recently amended the law so that "accidental" and brief showing of your piece is no longer an offense. You can't open carry or brandish your firearm unwarranted, but if you bend over at the grocery store and your shirt rides up, and someone catches a glimpse of your carry piece, you don't get in trouble for that anymore.

On the OP, I think these guys are idiots, and are doing far more to hurt our cause than help it. As to the NRA, I think they compromise far too much, and many of our rights have been lost because of their willingness to compromise.

[JNG]

Open carry has always been legal in Ohio, since it be came a state. That said, in the hills folks wound not bat an eyeball. In big cities the police may arrest you for causing panic. You will go to court and win. But time and money will make a sour victory.

Joe

[J Miller]

When I see a firearm unless it is an LEO or in a setting appropriate for the need of a firearm, my threat level peaks and puts me on edge. There is no rest until I am 100% certain the individual is not a threat

this is interesting because there are maybe HUNDREDS of civilians who got shot by the LEOs you trust. I can site a number of instances of cops murdering civilians and getting off scott-free. DO AN INTERNET SEARCH. The guy in Albuquerque comes to mind, gunned down in cold blood, shot in the Back. The wood carver in Seattle is another. The recent and constant "wrong address" no-knock home invasions that never seem to stop, it just keeps going. These are the ones that sooth someone's threat-level?

there is absolutely nothing about a strutting LEO that doesn't peak My threat level. blind trust in them is not rational.

I know that there are some decent ones. somewhere. and I hope I only meet their kind. but I have been threatened by swaggering gun waving cops and I don't think my threat level was any lower than when the gang-banger was threating mortal harm last month. It reads exactly the same to me.

only tyrannical regimes are endowed with merciless murdering rights at the expense of the citizens.

Grizz

Grizz, Finally a comment I agree with, you said it right.

I am not a fan of forced concealed carry. I much prefer open carry. I lived in AZ for many years and refused to concede my right to keep and bare arms. Had I acquired a CCW permit that is what would have happened. Acquiring a CCW permit is total abdication of your rights, since once you asked permission to do something, it is no longer a right, but has become a privilege. Anything the govt can deny or revoke is NOT a RIGHT.
I open carried anywhere I wanted and NEVER had one problem with anyone.

The one thing I see in this country is the brainwashing that LEOs are OK to open or conceal carry, but private citizens are scary. That is total BS.

I have been in places when people open carried, I gave them cursory look over, then went about my business. However when LEOs of any kind come in, my alert status goes red and stays that way until they leave.

As for the NRA's comments, they are a waste of our time and money. There are other pro-2nd organizations that do more for us and don't compromise with the enemy. With friends like the NRA, we really don't need enemies.

JMNSHO

Joe

[horsesoldier03]

Blaine, your voice was heard. The NRA has withdrawn their previous comments!

http://bearingarms.com/nra-ila-walks-ba ... pen-carry/

The NRA-ILA’s Chris Cox is claiming that a statement criticizing long gun open carry in restaurants was a personal opinion produced by a staffer, and is not the official position of the organization:


The National Rifle Association has rolled back an earlier statement criticizing “open carry” rallies in Texas in which gun rights advocates have brought military-style assault rifles into public places.

Chris Cox, the executive director of the group’s lobbying arm, said in an interview Tuesday on an NRA-hosted radio show that the statement was “a mistake” and that it was written by a staffer who was expressing his personal opinion.

“The truth is, an alert went out that referred to this type of behavior as ‘weird’ or somehow not normal, and that was a mistake. It shouldn’t have happened,” said Cox, who added that the group “unequivocally” supports open carry laws.

As a general rule of thumb, when you see a group—public, private, or government—issue a statement and then walk it back days later instead of immediately, it strongly suggests that the original comment is precisely what the group does think internally, but that they have found that position to be politically inconvenient. I’m not saying with any degree of certainty that this is what happened here, but I have my suspicions.

I am firm in my conviction that the open carry of long guns into private businesses, particularly restaurants, is both abnormal and potentially dangerous. Even in colonial times, it was customary for muskets to be discharged before entering a tavern or meeting house, and as a matter of historical fact, it was one of these discharge volleys by the Lexington militia who were entering a tavern on Lexington Green that convinced British officers to release a captured rider by the name of Paul Revere, early in the pre-dawn hours of April 19, 1775. The open carry of loaded long guns into private businesses is no more normal now than it was then.

The responsible open carry of long guns on public property in an organized protest may be disconcerting to some (primarily supporters of gun control), but it is typically obvious to all that such carry is part of a political protest, hoping to evoke change.

The recent tactics of brashly open carrying long guns into private businesses, however, is an obvious political loser that upsets anti-gunners, those in the middle that previously had no position on the matter (but whom are now siding with the anti-gunners), and most gun owners. It forces businesses into a “no-brainer” decision to ask customers to keep guns out of their establishments, because they merely want to make a living, not be caught in the middle of a political protest.

Just as importantly—and I should have mentioned this previously—there are real safety concerns in play here. If you watch the videos taken by these open carry groups, count the number of times they muzzle one another and other patrons with their firearms. It simply isn’t safe to carry a long gun in a place where it is difficult to impossible to find a safe “downrange” in which they can safely point the muzzles of their firearms.

The NRA-ILA is free to walk back their statement.

We’ll continue to hold the view that the open carry of long guns into private businesses is a political and public relations nightmare that accomplishes nothing more than force businesses to ban firearms nationwide, while hurting the stated cause of these groups to allow the legal open carry of handguns in Texas

[BigSky56]

Sweet sister Sadie are we citizens or subjects, to get all bowed up and on the prod up over someone carrying a rifle. What was the crime stats that day they carried rifles in Texas bet the bad guys kept their heads down or went home. The police cant protect you thats evident by crime stats and the supreme's have said that also. Course politicians or the enlightened ones have armed guards, that leaves it to you to protect you and your family. People need to get over the mind set of it will hurt our cause, the cause is being attacked daily by corrupt judges and politicians and nothing short of abdicating your rights will please them. Carrying weapons will always offend the enlightened ones & certain of the kings guards you cant please them so forget about the greater good its a myth dreamed up by dogooders. danny

[Grizz]

horsesoldier,

as I understood the original scenario, the rifles were carried with the bolts open and the gun cleared, maybe with a flag. this is not the same thing as the straw dog that you came back with. I get it that you don't like it for personal reasons. You should get it that it is way past time for Americans to see civilians armed and normal. And trying to appease and please the enemies of your liberty is proven by o'liar to be ineffective and counter-productive. The ones you claim to want to influence are NOT RIDING THE FENCE about anything and most of them will NEVER concede their position to you under any circumstances.

I have a kodachrome memory of my Dad, shirtless, in shorts and flip-flips, sunglasses tipped up onto his forehead, and side arm in modest holster, going thru the checkout line in a local Phoenix convenience store. About 50 years ago. No one batted an eyelash. Well, maybe that lady in the corner.... there was no cowering, shreiking, ooohs's, aaahs's or moans. Everyone was in fact very polite. THIS IS HOW MUCH TRYING TO APPEASE THE OPPOSERS HAS CHANGED PUBLIC PERCEPTION IN HALF A CENTURY.

The pub courtesy of the colonists is not the template that I wish to see followed today, that's just me I guess but I would be more unnerved by a mag dump from all the guys going into the place for a brew. And shooting into the air is now known to be dangerous, we just don't do that ak thing around here. yet.

And to all LEOs I ticked off, if you are true Public Servants, Promise Keepers, who Serve and Protect, I did not include you in my comments nor do I mean to disparage your service.
I was referring to the other kind of LEO.

[octagon]

Joe, I agree 100% with your statement that permits equal total abdication of your rights. People often ask me if I have a concealed permit, and my usual reply is that ALL Americans have one- the 2nd Amendment.
I think the open carry demonstrators in San Antone are being needlessly confrontational, and using private businesses for their demonstrations undermines their cause. These guys appear to be without capable leadership and their cause would be strengthened by a change at the top level.

[Blaine]

The courts have already set the precedent...A man with an open carry does not meet the requirement of causing fear and panic if he is not brandishing it.....Cops were wasting too much time on innocent open carry incidents....This is now codified in Washington State Law....

[FWiedner]

Fred, last legistlative session they changed the wording from "fails to conceal" to "intentionally displays". So, printing is no longer an offense. Again, good judgment is in order, but they just wanted to make it where a CHL holder was not a criminal simply because someone could make out his gun grip under his shirt.

I just took my concealed carry class here in TX, and if I understood the instructor correctly, TX recently amended the law so that "accidental" and brief showing of your piece is no longer an offense. You can't open carry or brandish your firearm unwarranted, but if you bend over at the grocery store and your shirt rides up, and someone catches a glimpse of your carry piece, you don't get in trouble for that anymore.

Thanks for reminding me guys. I'm not sure if it's solid evidence that I'm getting old or that I just don't listen, but I sat through another renewal class last fall (even though I didn't have to) and then I think that Joe Rieker even reminded me once of the same thing right here in this forum. I guess I'm just not letting go of the 'old ways', LOL.

Sweet sister Sadie are we citizens or subjects, to get all bowed up and on the prod up over someone carrying a rifle. What was the crime stats that day they carried rifles in Texas bet the bad guys kept their heads down or went home. The police cant protect you thats evident by crime stats and the supreme's have said that also. Course politicians or the enlightened ones have armed guards, that leaves it to you to protect you and your family. People need to get over the mind set of it will hurt our cause, the cause is being attacked daily by corrupt judges and politicians and nothing short of abdicating your rights will please them. Carrying weapons will always offend the enlightened ones & certain of the kings guards you cant please them so forget about the greater good its a myth dreamed up by dogooders. danny

For me it's not so much even got anything to do with guns. I see this in the same light that I the Homo 'rights' movement.

I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own little world. More power to you.

Just don't stick your BS in my face and then expect me praise the stink.

[vancelw]

Thanks for reminding me guys. I'm not sure if it's solid evidence that I'm getting old or that I just don't listen, but I sat through another renewal class last fall (even though I didn't have to) and then I think that Joe Rieker even reminded me once of the same thing right here in this forum. I guess I'm just not letting go of the 'old ways', LOL.

That's why the regs/statutes are printed out in a binder by my recliner....waiting for me to read them again someday. I think we have a hard time getting the rules out of our head from the way we originally learned them. Quite a few have changed slightly since the CHL in Texas began, most for the better.

[Old Ironsights]

Being disappointed in an NRA pro-anti-gun position is becoming frequent enough to become a habit/political position...

Sadly, it has been so for a couple of decades now...

[Blaine]

Being disappointed in an NRA pro-anti-gun position is becoming frequent enough to become a habit/political position...

Sadly, it has been so for a couple of decades now...

True, but I don't regret my signing up for the EasyPayLife option....The Second Amendment Foundation remains quiet most of the time, but I think they do more legal work, and don't toot their own horns too much.....(I'm a life member with them, too)

[Rusty]

As I see it what those two did was like going into a place where decent people go to eat and using vulgar language.

[Centennial]

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

That is one of the supreme laws of this land. We're the only country on the planet that has it and darn lucky to have it.

Did those two violate anything about it? No.
We are a nation of laws? Yes but only if we use them, all the time. Otherwise we'll get trapped , painted into a corner and grey areas will eat you up. It will never end. Follow the Founding generations laws.

[Griff]

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

That is one of the supreme laws of this land. We're the only country on the planet that has it and darn lucky to have it.

Did those two violate anything about it? No.
We are a nation of laws? Yes but only if we use them, all the time. Otherwise we'll get trapped , painted into a corner and grey areas will eat you up. It will never end. Follow the Founding generations laws.

Listen, I don't think anyone here disagrees, but...

Texas is already an open carry state, (longguns)... so , IMO, demonstrating for an already legal action is not only pointless, the reaction can be actual reversal of ground gained. AFAIK, there are no bills in the State legislature to curtail the right to carry. So while their intent may have been to demonstrate there's nothing to fear... the effect was just the opposite.

The goal of sheepdogs is to protect the sheep... maintaining calm and order; you don't do that by running into the herd snarling and growling with your teeth bared.

Now, if there had been an anti-gun rally going on... THEN I could see showin' up... to protect their right for free assembly.

[Blaine]

As I see it what those two did was like going into a place where decent people go to eat and using vulgar language.

Really? Vulgar? Brash, maybe.

[horsesoldier03]

This is what the average LIBERAL associates us GUN OWNERS! Somehow, I just don't think this supports our cause!

[Centennial]

^^ I don't care for the tent grommets in his ears. ^^

[Blaine]

Personally, I have not been trained/conditioned as of yet to willingly conform to what Liberals expect of me

[Grizz]

well, here is the alternative, germany after it adopted the liberalistas view about who gets weapons where.....

Bergen.jpg

personally, I think condition one is MUCH MORE APPEALING.

[GonnePhishin]

The sentiment was there; the common sense was not.

[Griff]

well, here is the alternative, germany after it adopted the liberalistas view about who gets weapons where.....

[img]

Bergen.jpg

[/img]

personally, I think condition one is MUCH MORE APPEALING.

The problem, a I see it, is that in THIS country, the fence-sitters and even some liberals don't see that the gub'mint as trying to TAKE private ownership away. The questin is will those not-anti-gun liberals and fence sitters stand up for their rights when they do finally see the light?

Please explain just how going out and demonstrating that the gov't hasn't taken that right away, and in the process scaring the sheeple, is effective in garnering support? Metinks you're more likely to scare them right into the anti camp.

Scare enough of the sheeple, and you've done the antis work for 'em.

[Old Savage]

+1

[Blaine]

Scare enough of the sheeple, and you've done the antis work for 'em.

Sheeple are easily swayed....The Hard Core Commies actively involved in taking away the 2nd will not be swayed one little iota no matter how "we" act.....And, we keep thinking we can persuade them to go no farther after they have reached an interim goal...(that last gun law, or inroad to their ultimate goal of complete disarmament). The open carry demonstrations are like sound bites....Sheeple see enough peaceful people with guns, they will get used to it..... I've seen it happen over the last 10-15 years on the Liberal side of the Cascades....and, the cops got tired of being sued)

[Grizz]

compromising anything with statists has only meant you get pulverized, IT HAS NEVER PRODUCED THE OPPOSITE EFFECT.

read history. do the same thing, wind up in the photo:

Bergen.jpg

All those people tried to get along with the nazis and wound up in the landfill.

read history. do the same thing, get the same result.

APPEASMENT KILLS THE APPEASERS.

[Old Savage]

There are those who have and will object to any open carry however harmless. But, everybody has their lines and will react when those lines are crossed or even pushed. Extreme examples likely do not serve the present discussion.

[Blaine]

Remember this? "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice...."
Evidently not....

[ollogger]

Dang Boots when you went on vacation to go fishing I really had no Idea of your agenda
hurry home HONEY



ollogger

[cshold]

Dang Boots when you went on vacation to go fishing I really had no Idea of your agenda
hurry home HONEY



ollogger

Good one Brad

[cshold]

There are those who have and will object to any open carry however harmless. But, everybody has their lines and will react when those lines are crossed or even pushed. Extreme examples likely do not serve the present discussion.

slice, dice, wrapped & packed.
That's adding the "What's the difference to the soup pot"
Pass the popcorn please

[cshold]

Where it not so long ago began.
No one gave much thought or concern when advertisements like
this become taboo & politically incorrect.

[madman4570]

There are those who have and will object to any open carry however harmless. But, everybody has their lines and will react when those lines are crossed or even pushed. Extreme examples likely do not serve the present discussion.

I just threw the phrase "bringing home the bacon" out the old window cause that that right there is heaven on earth.
A gal that carries months worth of dinner at one tote.
Boy, I sure would like to get a better glimpse at that fish's bill, got a frontal shot OS ? You can pm me wait, might be better to (email it) cause you know!
Yep, The flesh on that sure looks firm and I bet very tasty too!

[Centennial]

To much salt for me.

[madman4570]

To much salt for me.

[Old Savage]

No madman but Winchester did ads in South America that featured topless and nude women. Apparently there that would not create a big reaction. The point is that when people see what they are not suspecting or accepting you will get a reaction but you cannot control it. As others stated, will that be favorable to our cause politically and in the public's mind? AR15s in an ice cream shop? I doubt it. Sixgun on a cowboy's hip in a tack and feed store in Wyoming maybe not so much or Texas?

Certainly an issue to think about.

Saw this pic on a fishing site and thought it very artsy in its contrast and blending of images.

[Griff]

I'm just betting that she had help hoisting the fish up there. Great image... and good rejoinder Brad.

[cshold]

No madman but Winchester did ads in South America that featured topless and nude women. Apparently there that would not create a big reaction. The point is that when people see what they are not suspecting or accepting you will get a reaction but you cannot control it. As others stated, will that be favorable to our cause politically and in the public's mind? AR15s in an ice cream shop? I doubt it. Sixgun on a cowboy's hip in a tack and feed store in Wyoming maybe not so much or Texas?

Certainly an issue to think about.

Saw this pic on a fishing site and thought it very artsy in its contrast and blending of images.

Well said.

[Panzercat]

There's being right and being dumb. I'm sure they blur at some point in this story.

[Blaine]

There's being right and being dumb. I'm sure they blur at some point in this story.

This thread got off track. Normally, I love thread drift, but in this case my original issue was the NRA describing the Guns as "scary"....THAT played right into the hands of the Antis...Unless you're in an open carry state, IMO, perhaps your objections are not valid.

[Old Savage]

There are a number of variations in open carry through out the states.

[Blaine]

There are a number of variations in open carry through out the states.

No, there are not.....If you can't "Open Carry", it's NOT "Open Carry".... I can't think of any variation on that particular wording.....

[Griff]

Blaine, like CA in the not too distant past. You could open carry a sidearm. But, you couldn't have it loaded, nor ammo "readily at hand". What constitutes "readily at hand", would be sorted out by the judge were in front of at your arraignment! Likewise, you could open carry a longgun... but... if it were loaded the game warden could get you for hunting out of season... or within 200 yards of a roadway... the laws are numerous and convoluted. Even a lawyer gets confused. Texas is similar... the only state I'm aware of that has true open carry is AZ. But, even there, I'll bet there are regulations such that if you were walking around with a long gun, you'd get in trouble.

[Ms Boots]

See how divided our camp is.
The lefties camp is not divided, and they are on a rolling offensive making inroads redefining, reining-in, infringing, and removing rights our parents & grandparents had..

DITTO! hit the nail on the head!

[Blaine]

Blaine, like CA in the not too distant past. You could open carry a sidearm. But, you couldn't have it loaded, nor ammo "readily at hand". What constitutes "readily at hand", would be sorted out by the judge were in front of at your arraignment! Likewise, you could open carry a longgun... but... if it were loaded the game warden could get you for hunting out of season... or within 200 yards of a roadway... the laws are numerous and convoluted. Even a lawyer gets confused. Texas is similar... the only state I'm aware of that has true open carry is AZ. But, even there, I'll bet there are regulations such that if you were walking around with a long gun, you'd get in trouble.

Please, we are not talking about nuances that cover the carrying an arm from house, to car, etc....Open Carry, in the parlance we use is loaded, holstered/slung, and ready to go. Add Washington to that list, and if this map is correct way more common than people think...
http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103