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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06 ... o-extreme/
I thought open carry was already legal in Texas.
I use to think along those lines also. But I changed about 20 years ago because I see the writing on the wall, how far we have come away from this Right. The opposition has been chipping away at it in Increments for generations now, and the Bill of Rights is loosing. Get used to seeing them, let it go. Believe in in-alienable Rights, and not everything needing to be regulated and controlled by lawyers/politicians/bureaucrats.TedH wrote:I have to say I agree with the NRA. You or I, sitting in a restaurant and observe a couple guys walk in with rifles slung, would probably look them over and quickly realize they are exercising their rights and are of no threat to anyone. To the general public, especially those that don't take a position on either side of the gun issue, yet, are going to be a little freaked out by the sight of those guys with their rifles, and form a negative opinion of ALL "gun people", and they will probably remember that next time they are in the voting booth. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. I believe these guys are doing far more harm to "gun rights" by trying to draw attention to themselves. I'm not against open carry, but I always carry concealed. I don't want the bad guy to know I'm armed, before I know he's a criminal with ill intent.
TedH wrote:I have to say I agree with the NRA. You or I, sitting in a restaurant and observe a couple guys walk in with rifles slung, would probably look them over and quickly realize they are exercising their rights and are of no threat to anyone. To the general public, especially those that don't take a position on either side of the gun issue, yet, are going to be a little freaked out by the sight of those guys with their rifles, and form a negative opinion of ALL "gun people", and they will probably remember that next time they are in the voting booth. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. I believe these guys are doing far more harm to "gun rights" by trying to draw attention to themselves. I'm not against open carry, but I always carry concealed. I don't want the bad guy to know I'm armed, before I know he's a criminal with ill intent.
Or, more likely in these days of Socialist Gov. Lies and Deceit, an agent provocateur will pop one off killing somebodySixgun wrote:TedH wrote:I have to say I agree with the NRA. You or I, sitting in a restaurant and observe a couple guys walk in with rifles slung, would probably look them over and quickly realize they are exercising their rights and are of no threat to anyone. To the general public, especially those that don't take a position on either side of the gun issue, yet, are going to be a little freaked out by the sight of those guys with their rifles, and form a negative opinion of ALL "gun people", and they will probably remember that next time they are in the voting booth. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. I believe these guys are doing far more harm to "gun rights" by trying to draw attention to themselves. I'm not against open carry, but I always carry concealed. I don't want the bad guy to know I'm armed, before I know he's a criminal with ill intent.
I agree......word for word. Yes, I am pretty far to the right, but carrying AR's into a coffee shop is like hollaring "FIRE" in a crowded place, which our first ammen. rights are supposed to protect.
This will only lead to weirdos carrying loaded Barrett 50's and letting off a round, intentional or not, and setting us back 25 years.......especially if a Dem is in office when it happens.--------6
Seems like there are more CCW states now than ever before. Around here it is far far easier to get a CCW permit than ever before. There are more guns owned by private citizens than ever before, and there are private citizens with guns than ever before. Rifle ranges are more crowded and memberships to shooting clubs are now so high that there are waiting lists at many of them around me. There is a huge cottage industry teaching gun handling/training skills. Gun companies are churning out more guns than ever before as well. Esp. the "evil" black ones and small ones. Each of us probably has several multiples more firearms than our fathers and grandfathers. Right now, the fastest growing high school sport in my state is trap shooting and over a million targets were shot last year alone, when a decade ago, there were effectively zero such teams at that level. Both Boys and Girls are coming into the high school trap game in droves.Centennial wrote:I use to think along those lines also. But I changed about 20 years ago because I see the writing on the wall, how far we have come away from this Right. The opposition has been chipping away at it in Increments for generations now, and the Bill of Rights is loosing. Get used to seeing them, let it go. Believe in in-alienable Rights, and not everything needing to be regulated and controlled by lawyers/politicians/bureaucrats.
I agree that this sort of prank does not serve us, but I also think that the NRA could have phrased their opinion a whole lot different. That business of "scary" fed right into the arms of the Anti's Plans....Open carry has always been legal in Washington, but it took a group of like-minded citizens getting arrested, and put on the ground, and good legal advice to TRAIN the public and LEOs as to what the law was. I've been known to open carry, but really prefer concealed in town. At my age/condition a couple punks could prolly take my open carried arm away from me if they put their mind to it....Griff wrote:While their hearts may be in the right place, their activities demonstrate more of HUA level of understanding of how the fence sitters may react. as evidenced by the recent commercial establishment bans. Places that formerly either took no stance or possibly encouraged concealed carry, are more likely to post ban signs due to fear of lost business.
That hurts us in the long run. I agree with the NRA.
Edited: Yeah! What BrentD said! Heck, I do that when I see a "not-quite-concealed" armed guy.
TedH wrote:I have to say I agree with the NRA. You or I, sitting in a restaurant and observe a couple guys walk in with rifles slung, would probably look them over and quickly realize they are exercising their rights and are of no threat to anyone. To the general public, especially those that don't take a position on either side of the gun issue, yet, are going to be a little freaked out by the sight of those guys with their rifles, and form a negative opinion of ALL "gun people", and they will probably remember that next time they are in the voting booth. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. I believe these guys are doing far more harm to "gun rights" by trying to draw attention to themselves. I'm not against open carry, but I always carry concealed. I don't want the bad guy to know I'm armed, before I know he's a criminal with ill intent.
I think we should go with not yelling FIRE in a crowded theater.Centennial wrote:So even if this is not mine or your cup of tea, you'll are saying we should go by something else other then the supreme law of the land being our US Constitution's Bill of Rights??
We should distance ourselves from it and go with some contrary, ambiguous, and abstract not exactly written down idea or notion?
+100 Why don't people understand this?765x53 wrote:The Constitution is not an excuse for being a jack-butt.
+3, or are we up to 4Sixgun wrote:TedH wrote:I have to say I agree with the NRA. You or I, sitting in a restaurant and observe a couple guys walk in with rifles slung, would probably look them over and quickly realize they are exercising their rights and are of no threat to anyone. To the general public, especially those that don't take a position on either side of the gun issue, yet, are going to be a little freaked out by the sight of those guys with their rifles, and form a negative opinion of ALL "gun people", and they will probably remember that next time they are in the voting booth. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. I believe these guys are doing far more harm to "gun rights" by trying to draw attention to themselves. I'm not against open carry, but I always carry concealed. I don't want the bad guy to know I'm armed, before I know he's a criminal with ill intent.
I agree......word for word. Yes, I am pretty far to the right, but carrying AR's into a coffee shop is like hollering "FIRE" in a crowded place, which our first amen. rights are supposed to protect.
This will only lead to weirdo's carrying loaded Barrett 50's and letting off a round, intentional or not, and setting us back 25 years.......especially if a Dem is in office when it happens.--------6
Please define "being a Jack-butt".BrentD wrote:+100 Why don't people understand this?765x53 wrote:The Constitution is not an excuse for being a jack-butt.
California, until recently allowed open carry on your person or vehicle of unloaded weapons, (ammo could be on your person or vehicle but not in the weapon). Activists started showing up in large groups to malls, starbucks, etc, to push for a right they already had. Of course a bunch of soccer moms are going to freak out when a dozen armed people come into a store or restaurant. L.E. was always called and they have to respond to investigate. This led to confrontations and eventually the law was changed and no more open carry of handguns. Not being content with this, large groups again started slinging AR's, AK's and shotguns into malls and shopping centers. The result was no more open carry of rifles either. If they had just used the right reasonably open carry would probably still be allowed. These demonstrators would have been better off with an education campaign first to educate L.E. of their intent prior to just showing up armed in a public place in these times of active shooters. It seems the intent was to antagonize the L.E.O. while recording the incident to get on youtube. Eventually lawsuits were filed. A hunter, recreational shooter, a guy/gal wants to open carry.....those were normal and usually a quick explanation and on your way. A cop would be derelect in his duty to see a guy with a rifle walk into a mall and do nothing. This was a new type of call for most cops because it just didn't happen much, if at all. He or she would later have to read up on it to find out the legalities, after the fact. They can't just call time out and consult a penal code book. Training on handling these situations were then implemented detailing how to handle these incidents as far as officer safety issues, legalities of requesting names, and serial numbers etc., but by then lawmakers abolished the rights and now.....no more open carry in California.TedH wrote:I have to say I agree with the NRA. You or I, sitting in a restaurant and observe a couple guys walk in with rifles slung, would probably look them over and quickly realize they are exercising their rights and are of no threat to anyone. To the general public, especially those that don't take a position on either side of the gun issue, yet, are going to be a little freaked out by the sight of those guys with their rifles, and form a negative opinion of ALL "gun people", and they will probably remember that next time they are in the voting booth. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. I believe these guys are doing far more harm to "gun rights" by trying to draw attention to themselves. I'm not against open carry, but I always carry concealed. I don't want the bad guy to know I'm armed, before I know he's a criminal with ill intent.
765x53 wrote:The Constitution is not an excuse for being a jack-butt.
Well said.7.62 Precision wrote:
On the other hand, I recognize the fact that any lawful citizen of this nation has the right to openly carry a weapon. We are on dangerous ground when we start to oppose that truth.
I think we should remind people to be respectful and consider consequences of any action, to be wise and strategic in our fight, and I think many activists have forgotten to think about these things, but we must also remind ourselves that while we may not agree with the way someone exercises a right, and we may politely suggest the act differently, we must be very careful not to condemn them for exercising the right, or we are no different from the progressives who would destroy our basic rights.
Yes. Amen. I agree with both of you.Sixgun wrote:TedH wrote:I have to say I agree with the NRA. You or I, sitting in a restaurant and observe a couple guys walk in with rifles slung, would probably look them over and quickly realize they are exercising their rights and are of no threat to anyone. To the general public, especially those that don't take a position on either side of the gun issue, yet, are going to be a little freaked out by the sight of those guys with their rifles, and form a negative opinion of ALL "gun people", and they will probably remember that next time they are in the voting booth. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. I believe these guys are doing far more harm to "gun rights" by trying to draw attention to themselves. I'm not against open carry, but I always carry concealed. I don't want the bad guy to know I'm armed, before I know he's a criminal with ill intent.
I agree......word for word. Yes, I am pretty far to the right, but carrying AR's into a coffee shop is like hollaring "FIRE" in a crowded place, which our first ammen. rights are supposed to protect.
This will only lead to weirdos carrying loaded Barrett 50's and letting off a round, intentional or not, and setting us back 25 years.......especially if a Dem is in office when it happens.--------6
Well stated. I think open carry definitely IS appropriate for some environments (hiking in the forestry, at a conservation club openhouse, rural areas, and even many small towns), but clearly is NOT appropriate for others (anti-gun, paranoid city environments or businesses). Not that I would tell someone they couldn't do it, or think "there should be a law", but it just isn't very 'tasteful'. IF the goal is to persuade neutral folks that "guns and those who carry them are actually ok people" I do think it is better to be more subtle (i.e. let them know you carry concealed, after they've interacted with you and found out you're "ok" - rather than tell them the gun-part first, and have them pre-judge you thereafter).TedH wrote:I have to say I agree with the NRA. You or I, sitting in a restaurant and observe a couple guys walk in with rifles slung, would probably look them over and quickly realize they are exercising their rights and are of no threat to anyone. To the general public, especially those that don't take a position on either side of the gun issue, yet, are going to be a little freaked out by the sight of those guys with their rifles, and form a negative opinion of ALL "gun people", and they will probably remember that next time they are in the voting booth. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. I believe these guys are doing far more harm to "gun rights" by trying to draw attention to themselves. I'm not against open carry, but I always carry concealed. I don't want the bad guy to know I'm armed, before I know he's a criminal with ill intent.
Fred, last legistlative session they changed the wording from "fails to conceal" to "intentionally displays". So, printing is no longer an offense. Again, good judgment is in order, but they just wanted to make it where a CHL holder was not a criminal simply because someone could make out his gun grip under his shirt.FWiedner wrote:
As was also mentioned, concealed carry is legal (with a permit) but brandishing and printing is considered an offense.
Chris83716 wrote:Okay, I’ll grant if I was in a coffee shop and those two walked in they would get more than a cursory glance. But I don’t see anything to wet your pants over.
Both rifles are slung.
AK pattern rifle has a YELLOW chamber indicator in the OPEN action. (I would be willing to bet the AR does also) It would be nice to see the magazines removed.
They are not dressed like mall ninjas’ / ATF agents at Waco.
Time to drink my coffee.
This is not a problem in Israel. Why should it be a problem here? A few more Boston type bombings or some jihadists on the lose and this will be a common place sight.
Keep in mind that the most dangerous thing most of us do is get into a car and drive some where. When was the last time you worried about dying on the way to the supermarket?
It’s a RIGHT to keep and bear arms not a suggestion.
Chris
Never will. The true hard-core anti-gunners will not change their minds. Their position is an emotional one that is not based on rational thought, therefore they have a religious-like devotion to it.Grizz wrote:The anti-gunners will like us better and treat us nicer if they don't see our guns?
When is that going to work?
this is interesting because there are maybe HUNDREDS of civilians who got shot by the LEOs you trust. I can site a number of instances of cops murdering civilians and getting off scott-free. DO AN INTERNET SEARCH. The guy in Albuquerque comes to mind, gunned down in cold blood, shot in the Back. The wood carver in Seattle is another. The recent and constant "wrong address" no-knock home invasions that never seem to stop, it just keeps going. These are the ones that sooth someone's threat-level?When I see a firearm unless it is an LEO or in a setting appropriate for the need of a firearm, my threat level peaks and puts me on edge. There is no rest until I am 100% certain the individual is not a threat
Need is a dangerous criteria.horsesoldier03 wrote:a setting appropriate for the need of a firearm
7.62 Precision wrote:Need is a dangerous criteria.horsesoldier03 wrote:a setting appropriate for the need of a firearm
If you don't have it when you don't need it, you won't have it when you do need it.